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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Rowland,
Like you, I like the sound of it.
But the 4 kg weight loss seemed too good to be true.
Having shown an interest I received a pro forma offer (dated August
31st, 2012), that lists the partnumbers that will be in the kit:
JAB02-HE1 wheel 6.00-6" HIGH ENERGY 1 caliper - disc red n° 1 off
PAD02 tyre 800-6 6PLY AirTrac 1 off
DIVERS AVION specific axle + caliper support + M. Cyl adapter 1 off
HAB02 brake m. cylinder RED for hand brake built in reservoir with
parking 1 off
HZA01 pressure limiter ultra light 35 bars DOT4 1 off
HDB01 stainless steel brake hose per meter 2,5 off
HEA01 banjo fitting 20° 3 off
HEA03 twin banjo 1 off
The catalogue on the website has the weights of these partnumbers.
Adding them up I get 9.232 kg.
This includes a probably representative axle (T3, 0.500 kg) and excludes
hose, banjos, fasteners and "caliper support + M.Cyl adapter".
I also weighed the wheel and the brake components of the Europa kit:
10.8 +/- 0.1 kg.
This includes the brake handle and excludes hose, banjos, fasteners and
the parking brake construction to be made.
In conclusion - the weight advantage will be somewhere between 1.5 and 2 kg.
There are the other advantages ofcourse:
- brake on the stick
- parking brake included
And the disadvantages:
- brake hose routing
- great expense
Regards,
Jan de Jong
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Jan,
Thank you for providing this weight analysis. I am very interested in the Beringer stuff for the mono but I have some doubts about the weight savings they claimed. What type and size of tyre was installed on the Europa wheel you weighted at 10.8 kg?
Remi Guerner
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Remi,
I weighed the bits on the picture together, making 10.8 +/- 0.1 kg.
The tyre is the original Europa one. It says:
TITAN, tube type, 4 ply, 8.00 - 6, turf glide, not for highway use.
I wonder how many flyers have used this tyre in operation and for how long.
Jan
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:27 am Post subject: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Thanks Jan,
As far as I remember this Carlisle tyre weighs about 0.7 kg less than the AirTrac 8.00-6, when new. Based on your figures, that means that for those already using the AirTrac the weight saving provided by the Beringer kit would be in the 2.2 - 2.7 kg range. A significant portion of this saving (0.9kg) comes from the removal of the tube, as this is a tubeless system.
Remi
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Remi,
Thank you for the tyre weight information. I didn't know the Titan tyre
was so relatively light weight.
B.t.w., guessing at the weight of the omitted parts in both kits I
believe the ultimate weight savings, using similar tyres, will be closer
to 2.2 kg than to 2.7 kg.
Jan
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ken carp
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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I have used one over 500 hours mainly off grass runway
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 29, 2012, at 5:19 AM, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Remi,
I weighed the bits on the picture together, making 10.8 +/- 0.1 kg.
The tyre is the original Europa one. It says:
TITAN, tube type, 4 ply, 8.00 - 6, turf glide, not for highway use.
I wonder how many flyers have used this tyre in operation and for how long.
Jan
<DSCF0005.JPG>
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_________________
ken carpenter |
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churchy
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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For those who expressed an interest in the Beringer system weight saving, I asked the UK agent, Brad Goodfellow of Pioneer Aircraft UK (through whom I have bought a kit) if he could set out the manufacturer's calculations for the weight saving. I don't have the comparisons to hand that others have posted on the forum to do a comparison, but the figures that Brad gave me and asked me to post on the forum are as follows (in kg) and Brad was keen to emphasise that his experience of Beringer is that they are meticulous in calculating their weight saving statistics, with a large chunk of the savings here coming from a heavy inner tube which is now redundant:
Beringer
Original Europa System
Rim
7.85
10.58
Disc
Tyre
7.00-6” AirTrac 6 Ply
7.00-6” Condor 6 Ply
Tube
NO TUBE
TUBE
Caliper
0.78
Fixing Plate
Axle
0.85
1.36
Washers
Total
8.7
Total
12.72
Brad's details are below and he is happy to be contacted if anyone has follow on queries:
Brad Goodfellow
Managing Director Pioneer Aircraft Ltd
Tel: +44 1873 851116
Mob: +44 7851 287662
Email: brad(at)pioneer.aero
Website: www.pioneer.aero
Richard C-C
[quote][b]
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neveyre(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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With no tube, and only 18psi in the tyre, I would be concerned the tyre might pop the bead if presented with any sort of side load....................... just being the Devil's advocate..........
--
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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I'm sorry, but I have the Original Europa System here and it weighs 10.8 kg; including hose and fasteners maybe 100 g more...
Jan de Jong
On 10/1/2012 8:48 PM, Richard Churchill-Coleman wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
For those who expressed an interest in the Beringer system weight saving, I asked the UK agent, Brad Goodfellow of Pioneer Aircraft UK (through whom I have bought a kit) if he could set out the manufacturer's calculations for the weight saving. I don't have the comparisons to hand that others have posted on the forum to do a comparison, but the figures that Brad gave me and asked me to post on the forum are as follows (in kg) and Brad was keen to emphasise that his experience of Beringer is that they are meticulous in calculating their weight saving statistics, with a large chunk of the savings here coming from a heavy inner tube which is now redundant:
Beringer
Original Europa System
Rim
7.85
10.58
Disc
Tyre
7.00-6” AirTrac 6 Ply
7.00-6” Condor 6 Ply
Tube
NO TUBE
TUBE
Caliper
0.78
Fixing Plate
Axle
0.85
1.36
Washers
Total
8.7
Total
12.72
Brad's details are below and he is happy to be contacted if anyone has follow on queries:
Brad Goodfellow
Managing Director Pioneer Aircraft Ltd
Tel: +44 1873 851116
Mob: +44 7851 287662
Email: brad(at)pioneer.aero (brad(at)pioneer.aero)
Website: www.pioneer.aero
Richard C-C
[b]
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steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Tim,
If you have the plastic ends to your struts then Europa have metal ends as replacements. Mine work fine after the change.
Regards
Steve
[quote] ---
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nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:58 am Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Good for me too.
N
On 01/10/2012 22:08, Jan de Jong wrote:
[quote] I'm sorry, but I have the Original Europa System here and it weighs 10.8 kg; including hose and fasteners maybe 100 g more...
Jan de Jong
On 10/1/2012 8:48 PM, Richard Churchill-Coleman wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
For those who expressed an interest in the Beringer system weight saving, I asked the UK agent, Brad Goodfellow of Pioneer Aircraft UK (through whom I have bought a kit) if he could set out the manufacturer's calculations for the weight saving. I don't have the comparisons to hand that others have posted on the forum to do a comparison, but the figures that Brad gave me and asked me to post on the forum are as follows (in kg) and Brad was keen to emphasise that his experience of Beringer is that they are meticulous in calculating their weight saving statistics, with a large chunk of the savings here coming from a heavy inner tube which is now redundant:
Beringer
Original Europa System
Rim
7.85
10.58
Disc
Tyre
7.00-6” AirTrac 6 Ply
7.00-6” Condor 6 Ply
Tube
NO TUBE
TUBE
Caliper
0.78
Fixing Plate
Axle
0.85
1.36
Washers
Total
8.7
Total
12.72
Brad's details are below and he is happy to be contacted if anyone has follow on queries:
Brad Goodfellow
Managing Director Pioneer Aircraft Ltd
Tel: +44 1873 851116
Mob: +44 7851 287662
Email: brad(at)pioneer.aero (brad(at)pioneer.aero)
Website: www.pioneer.aero
Richard C-C
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[b]
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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To those Monowheel drivers who are interested in the Beringer wheel and brake kit, I visited their factory today to sort out the weight saving issue. I met the boss Gilbert Beringer and his son Remi who designed the proposed system for the Europa. I was coming with the idea that the disagreement on the original Europa wheel and brake weight was due to the tyre and I was right. We weighted different tyres and found that the used 7.00-6 Condor tyre weighted 5 kg, a new 7.00-6 AirTrac 4,16 kg and a new 8.00-6 Carlisle (which is very similar to the Titan turf glide) was coming at 3,74 kg.
We finally weighted the Europa wheel+brake+axle+spacers+tube+bolts and nuts and found 7,5 kg.
This is to be compared to 4,54 kg for the replacement parts from Beringer.
Therefore, the weight saving is around 3 kg, provided you are using the same tyre as before.
The Beringer kit comes with a 7.00-6’’ AirTrac 6 ply, so if you are already using this type of tyre you will save those 3 kg. But if you are presently using the original Europa tyre (Carlisle or Titan) you will save 2,5 kg only. If you are using a heavier tyre such as the Condor you will be close to the 4 kg saving as claimed by Beringer.
Those figures do not include the master cylinder and brake handle. Those parts are made of light alloy by Beringer compared to steel for the original go kart master cylinder, so I am prety sure there is some more weight saving there.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Thank you very much Remi. Good info.
But adding 7,5 and 3,74 makes 11,24 for an original Europa wheel with
Carlisle tyre. Mine, with Titan tyre, weighs most definitely less than
11 kg. Curious.
Jan de Jong
On 10/8/2012 5:11 PM, Remi Guerner wrote:
| Quote: |
To those Monowheel drivers who are interested in the Beringer wheel and brake kit, I visited their factory today to sort out the weight saving issue. I met the boss Gilbert Beringer and his son Remi who designed the proposed system for the Europa. I was coming with the idea that the disagreement on the original Europa wheel and brake weight was due to the tyre and I was right. We weighted different tyres and found that the used 7.00-6 Condor tyre weighted 5 kg, a new 7.00-6 AirTrac 4,16 kg and a new 8.00-6 Carlisle (which is very similar to the Titan turf glide) was coming at 3,74 kg.
We finally weighted the Europa wheel+brake+axle+spacers+tube+bolts and nuts and found 7,5 kg.
This is to be compared to 4,54 kg for the replacement parts from Beringer.
Therefore, the weight saving is around 3 kg, provided you are using the same tyre as before.
The Beringer kit comes with a 7.00-6’’ AirTrac 6 ply, so if you are already using this type of tyre you will save those 3 kg. But if you are presently using the original Europa tyre (Carlisle or Titan) you will save 2,5 kg only. If you are using a heavier tyre such as the Condor you will be close to the 4 kg saving as claimed by Beringer.
Those figures do not include the master cylinder and brake handle. Those parts are made of light alloy by Beringer compared to steel for the original go kart master cylinder, so I am prety sure there is some more weight saving there.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384931#384931
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel |
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Jan,
The Titan may be lighter than the Carlisle.
Remi
<<<<<<But>>>>>>
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