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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: Specs

Kurt and others, I increased the pitch on my Warpdrive 72" 3 blade prop 1 degree and t/o, climb seem about the same but airpeed rose at 4000rpm from 90 to 94ish. Pulling just under one more inch of boost (1.5 psi) at the same RPM. How does that compare to yours. John A.





Find the coolest online games at  XtraMSN Games

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: Specs

Workable numbers John.



They tell more.  Is that 4000 RPM at full throttle? 

If not, what is your max speed, level flight and full

power?  Can you go to max throttle without exceeding

your RPM limit in flight?  If you get to the RPM limit

first, you need more pitch.



If possible, use 2000 feet pressure altitude (29.92

set) for comparison.  That is about where I did much

of my testing so I could be consistant.  Easier for us

to compare at it then.



I think you can put in a little more pitch and still

do well.  Depends upon where you want the best

performance to be of course, T/O, climb, or cruise. 

Looks like you have plenty of climb now and could tune

in a little more cruise.  See what one more degree

does?



Since I have an inflight variable pitch prop and no

pitch gauge, I had to devise a way to set consistant

power to compare for performance testing.  What I used

was max pitch and full throttle for one setting, and

increase to 3750 RPM at full throttle for the other. 

I do not have good numbes for 4000 RPM for you right

now, but I am faster than that at just 3750 and full

throttle.



Not sure if this is best, but I pull 6 psi boost in

cruise.  That should convert to about 42" for those

who measure that way.  That seems to be where the

turbo is set to maintain pressure, since it seldom

goes higher.



Rick, what settings did you use?  If 6psi is good,

John could pull a little more power with more pitch.



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Kurt and others, I increased the pitch on my Warpdrive

72" 3 blade prop 1 degree and t/o, climb seem about

the same but airpeed rose at 4000rpm from 90 to 94ish.

Pulling just under one more inch of boost (1.5 psi) at

the same RPM. How does that compare to yours. John A.



__________________________________________________

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: Specs

Thanks so very much for your assistance on this Kurt. Yes, thinking about 

what you say I do need more pitch and going on the result from the change I 

made it confirms this. I been a bit focussed on getting cooling, belt 

tracking etc sorted but now that those things seem pretty well sorted it's 

time for some science. As you say, this is fun...I'll post my results. John



From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Specs

Date:  Sat, 3 Jun 2006 23:47:19 -0700 (PDT)


<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Workable numbers John.



They tell more.  Is that 4000 RPM at full throttle?

If not, what is your max speed, level flight and full

power?  Can you go to max throttle without exceeding

your RPM limit in flight?  If you get to the RPM limit

first, you need more pitch.



If possible, use 2000 feet pressure altitude (29.92

set) for comparison.  That is about where I did much

of my testing so I could be consistant.  Easier for us

to compare at it then.



I think you can put in a little more pitch and still

do well.  Depends upon where you want the best

performance to be of course, T/O, climb, or cruise.

Looks like you have plenty of climb now and could tune

in a little more cruise.  See what one more degree

does?



Since I have an inflight variable pitch prop and no

pitch gauge, I had to devise a way to set consistant

power to compare for performance testing.  What I used

was max pitch and full throttle for one setting, and

increase to 3750 RPM at full throttle for the other.

I do not have good numbes for 4000 RPM for you right

now, but I am faster than that at just 3750 and full

throttle.



Not sure if this is best, but I pull 6 psi boost in

cruise.  That should convert to about 42" for those

who measure that way.  That seems to be where the

turbo is set to maintain pressure, since it seldom

goes higher.



Rick, what settings did you use?  If 6psi is good,

John could pull a little more power with more pitch.



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Kurt and others, I increased the pitch on my Warpdrive

72" 3 blade prop 1 degree and t/o, climb seem about

the same but airpeed rose at 4000rpm from 90 to 94ish.

Pulling just under one more inch of boost (1.5 psi) at

the same RPM. How does that compare to yours. John A.



__________________________________________________

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around





_________________________________________________________________

Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband (at) 

http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: Specs

I forgot to mention Kurt, no 4000 is not full out, plenty left so as you 

say, more pitch required. John

From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Specs

Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 17:50:59 +1200






Kurt and others, I increased the pitch on my Warpdrive 72" 3 blade prop 1 

degree and t/o, climb seem about the same but airpeed rose at 4000rpm from 

90 to 94ish. Pulling just under one more inch of boost (1.5 psi) at the same 

RPM. How does that compare to yours. John A.



Find the coolest online games at  XtraMSN Games



_________________________________________________________________

Check out the latest video  (at)  http://xtra.co.nz/streaming

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: Specs

Our turbo engine with an auto waste gate present a varied range of

settings. Simply put I flew in the torque band of the engine roughly

3800-4200 RPMs. AS RPM is increased boost increase to the waste gate set

level. If I remember correctly seems 16.5 at 4200 was good and putt

along about 110 IAS. Of course initial climb out was 5200 and pitch set

at I think 9. Boost was 42inches. 

I did experiment for a short time only with a manual boost controller.

Way too much work load and far to sensitive for my liking. It worked,

just too much trouble for gain if any. My thinking at the time was to

over come lost boost at altitude due to the diaphragm type boost

controller, another topic it self. Yes I did take her up to almost

18,000 feet and that was on auto waste gate control.

With the new designed turbo I built boost was not an issue and I in fact

had to open the waste gate port to avoid over boost. No problem getting

50 inched to nose bleed altitude. 

When working with a turbo in an aircraft, RPM, blade pitch, reduction

drive ratio,  and throttle position can be used to get many different

power setting. I had hoped to develop some graphs and charts but my fun

got cut short. I really miss it. I love hearing about those of you that

still can do the experimenting and just hope I can help in a small way.

There is nothing like thinking something through and then going out and

testing your theories, great stuff. 



Rick



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: Specs

Thanks Rick, another helpful post for me in the 'fun' stage.. tell me did 

you have a std 81 turbo or larger? John



From:  "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  RE: Specs

Date:  Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:31:28 -0700




Our turbo engine with an auto waste gate present a varied range of

settings. Simply put I flew in the torque band of the engine roughly

3800-4200 RPMs. AS RPM is increased boost increase to the waste gate set

level. If I remember correctly seems 16.5 at 4200 was good and putt

along about 110 IAS. Of course initial climb out was 5200 and pitch set

at I think 9. Boost was 42inches.

I did experiment for a short time only with a manual boost controller.

Way too much work load and far to sensitive for my liking. It worked,

just too much trouble for gain if any. My thinking at the time was to

over come lost boost at altitude due to the diaphragm type boost

controller, another topic it self. Yes I did take her up to almost

18,000 feet and that was on auto waste gate control.

With the new designed turbo I built boost was not an issue and I in fact

had to open the waste gate port to avoid over boost. No problem getting

50 inched to nose bleed altitude.

When working with a turbo in an aircraft, RPM, blade pitch, reduction

drive ratio,  and throttle position can be used to get many different

power setting. I had hoped to develop some graphs and charts but my fun

got cut short. I really miss it. I love hearing about those of you that

still can do the experimenting and just hope I can help in a small way.

There is nothing like thinking something through and then going out and

testing your theories, great stuff.



Rick



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: Specs

Thanks Rick, another helpful post for me in the 'fun' stage.. tell me did you have a std 81 turbo or larger? John

 

 [quote]   

From:  "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  RE: Specs

Date:  Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:31:28 -0700

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>



Our turbo engine with an auto waste gate present a varied range of

settings. Simply put I flew in the torque band of the engine roughly

3800-4200 RPMs. AS RPM is increased boost increase to the waste gate set

level. If I remember correctly seems 16.5 at 4200 was good and putt

along about 110 IAS. Of course initial climb out was 5200 and pitch set

at I think 9. Boost was 42inches.

I did experiment for a short time only with a manual boost controller.

Way too much work load and far  to sensitive for my liking. It worked,

just too much trouble for gain if any. My thinking at the time was to

over come lost boost at altitude due to the diaphragm type boost

controller, another topic it self. Yes I did take her up to almost

18,000 feet and that was on auto waste gate control.

With the new designed turbo I built boost was not an issue and I in fact

had to open the waste gate port to avoid over boost. No problem getting

50 inched to nose bleed altitude.

When working with a turbo in an aircraft, RPM, blade pitch, reduction

drive ratio,  and throttle position can be used to get many different

power setting. I had hoped to develop some graphs and charts but my fun

got cut short. I really miss it. I love hearing about those of you that

still can do the experimenting and just hope I can help in a small way.

There is nothing like  thinking something through and then going out and

testing your theories, great stuff.



Rick



--

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: Specs

Turbo EA-81 with correct turbo block, std not oversized.



Rick



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: Specs

Sorry Rick, I was meaning the actual turbo charger. I'm running an EA 82 

unit on my EA81 engine, the idea being that as we operate at a higher 

constant RPM than that in the automotive world, it's not spinning above it's 

optimum RPM. John

From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Specs

Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:57:43 -0700






Turbo EA-81 with correct turbo block, std not oversized.



Rick



--

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: Specs

Great John,



Keep us impressed!



I know what you mean about priorities too.  It was a

while before I noticed my gearbox temps were high and

I did something about it, because I too was working on

more pressing matters in early testing.  Cooling

always seems an issue early on as well.  In my case,

fixing a badly functioning breather came first.



If you plan to go up into the rare air like Rick, you

will need even more pitch to not overspeed or under

power your plane.  Once again, mission dictates.  With

all your power, you can achieve many objectives with

power to spare, as you already seem to be doing.



Kurt S.



Do not archive



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks so very much for your assistance on this

 Kurt. Yes, thinking about 

 what you say I do need more pitch and going on the

 result from the change I 

 made it confirms this. I been a bit focussed on

 getting cooling, belt 

 tracking etc sorted but now that those things seem

 pretty well sorted it's 

 time for some science. As you say, this is

 fun...I'll post my results. John


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: Specs

Thanks Rick,



I selfishly wish you were still leading at this too.



On my list of "around-to-its" is finding out why I go

lean only on certain flights, or always at those rpms

around 4000.  My fear is that I have damaged the carb

from one of several reasons.  Alcohol fuel, or over

pressure of the carb fuel.  In any case, I can not

hold those RPM's without going above 1450 EGT, which I

have and now stay out of.  Kind of limits my power

options....



Was your cruise at 110 MPH? indicated, or knots Rick?



Lance showed my torque curve pretty flat above 3200

rpm with the limit at 5600 rpm.  Mostly I takeoff at

around 44-5000 rpm, but occasionally I takeoff at

54-5600 and there is a big difference!  Snort, leap,

airborne!  But I don't mind the 500' takeoff roll and

longer engine life.



I think you and John will always beat my engine

though.  It is the little turbo.  That is until I put

in your bigger one you sent, Rick.  



Kurt S.



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Our turbo engine with an auto waste gate present a

 varied range of

 settings. Simply put I flew in the torque band of

 the engine roughly

 3800-4200 RPMs. AS RPM is increased boost increase

 to the waste gate set

 level. If I remember correctly seems 16.5 at 4200

 was good and putt

 along about 110 IAS. Of course initial climb out was

 5200 and pitch set

 at I think 9. Boost was 42inches........


	


__________________________________________________

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: Specs

Cruise was at 110 MPH. You do have the model 3a Ellison I hope?

Rick



--

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: Specs

Larger  water cooled turbo. The numbers RH5B seem to come to me, bit foggy. It is easily  spotted by the larger  dual compressor blade.

  

 Rick

 [quote]   

   --

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Specs

Rick,



Yup, 3A.  Inconsistant even though fuel pressure looks

OK.  I've cleaned the carb filter - nothing there - 

and it looked like the spray bar was OK.  That is as

far as I have gone into it.



What is interesting is that you can have 2 flights 15

minutes apart and one will be lean and the other OK on

EGT.  It does not change itself in flight.  It is

either running lean and requires full rich for the

whole flight, or it has some leaning available for the

whole flight.  But it is always too lean around 4000

rpm.  Just too lean, or leaner.



I think the max level speed I can get out of mine is

123 mph indicated, up from 109 mph before my scoop and

lift strut fairings.  Still has that "hitting a wall"

effect, but not as bad.  The gains seem greater at

cruise, which I do around 90-100 mph.  Above that it

is more like "strain" than cruise.  Mine was the 140

HP version....



No other antidrag items installed yet.  Shooting for a

115 mph cruise.



Then there is that VG problem where I couldn't get it

to stall slower either....



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Cruise was at 110 MPH. You do have the model 3a

 Ellison I hope?

 Rick


	


__________________________________________________

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: Specs

Are  you leaving the fuel pump on all the time? If you are not seeing 5

psi all the time that could be a possible problem. With the pump off you

will see higher EGTs. Has that been your experience as well. 



Rick



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: Specs

Yes Rick, sounds like the EA82 unit too. John

From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Specs

Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:13:09 -0700

Larger water cooled turbo. The numbers RH5B seem to come to me, bit

foggy. It is easily spotted by the larger  dual compressor blade.

Rick

--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: Specs

Now you mention breathers Kurt, my left hand one pumps out a bit of oil, 

what type do you have? My breather pipes elivate up and then drop through 

the lower cowl via short stand pipe outlets. No seperators. John

From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Specs

Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:32:43 -0700 (PDT)




<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Great John,



Keep us impressed!



I know what you mean about priorities too.  It was a

while before I noticed my gearbox temps were high and

I did something about it, because I too was working on

more pressing matters in early testing.  Cooling

always seems an issue early on as well.  In my case,

fixing a badly functioning breather came first.



If you plan to go up into the rare air like Rick, you

will need even more pitch to not overspeed or under

power your plane.  Once again, mission dictates.  With

all your power, you can achieve many objectives with

power to spare, as you already seem to be doing.



Kurt S.



Do not archive



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 > Thanks so very much for your assistance on this

 > Kurt. Yes, thinking about

 > what you say I do need more pitch and going on the

 > result from the change I

 > made it confirms this. I been a bit focussed on

 > getting cooling, belt

 > tracking etc sorted but now that those things seem

 > pretty well sorted it's

 > time for some science. As you say, this is

 > fun...I'll post my results. John



__________________________________________________





_________________________________________________________________

Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband (at) 

http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Specs

Take a look at the ones I ended up making. I got tired of messes and not

having the crud/sludge acid water  purged from my crankcase while allow

clean cool air in. OK here goes first attachment.



Rick

--

PARTING_OUT_KITFOX_2005-048.jpg

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PARTING_OUT_KITFOX_2005-049.jpg

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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: Specs

Rick, John and Matt,



Rick and Matt, The attachments came thru OK as

thumbnails, but the first one downloads as a black

pic.  I tried twice in Corel Photohouse.  The second

one is OK.



John, I had a 1/2 qt of oil blow out the factory

breather on my first flight.  It flooded onto my right

cockpit floor and aft as well as blowing across my

right door in and out.



Got my attention!  I thought I blew an oil cooler

line, but the pressure was good, so I landed under

power.



Fixing the breather system was my first priority in

testing, after an exensive cleanup of plane and

underware.  



Like Rick, I put in a system that doesn't recycle oil

back to the pan.  Otherwise I could have just

installed a PVC valve on the pan return.  Mine has a 1

qt race car collector that I have to drain

occasionally.  It looks similar to Rick's, but he has

2 and both sides go into my one.



I removed the attachments on top of the valve covers

and attached large barbed hose couplings.  One is

verticle and the other is at a 45 degree angle up to

clear other parts.  The hoses go constantly up to the

collector so that good oil can drain back down after

it seperates.  I was concerned because it would blow

that 1/2 qt out and I thought it would all blow out on

a long flight if I didn't let it drain back down the

hose.  The bad stuff drops into the collector.  Later

I did install a bit of scrubbie into the hoses held in

by the barbs to calm things down a bit like the

origional hose connectors.



I think I used 1/2" ID hose to let it breath well.  In

total, what I took out weighed the same as what I put

in.



My understanding of the auto Soob is that it had the

PVC valve in place to allow air to enter the right

(airplane) cover and exit the left as it seemed to

naturally want to breath.  That may explain why you

get oil out the left only John.



I eventually replaced the dipstick because the

origional only showed the top qt of oil of 5 qts. 

That turned out to be too much oil and I wanted to

know how much I had when it wasn't that full.  4 qts

was the last 1/8th inch of the old dipstick.  This was

due to the taildragger configuration with the dipstick

at the front and the oil leveling to the rear with the

tail down.  Now I run 4 qts with a good dipstick I can

read.  And oil blowout is maybe a cup or less in 10

hrs.



Keeps the plane clean as Rick said.  



Darn Soob replacement dipstick was $20!  Couldn't find

one to recycle.  



Kurt S.



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:



[quote] Take a look at the ones I ended up making. I got

 tired of messes and not

 having the crud/sludge acid water  purged from my

 crankcase while allow

 clean cool air in. OK here goes first attachment.



 Rick



 --

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: Specs

Thanks Rick, both shots came out extra good. The system drops the blow by 

oil into the container and the filter is to ensure clean air return? As Kurt 

explained, you would drain the container every so often? Your turbo set up 

looks almost identical to mine, I see the cable that was fr the manual 

w/gate, yes?I went through that too but reverted to std system. John

From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Specs

Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:31:04 -0700



Take a look at the ones I ended up making. I got tired of messes and not

having the crud/sludge acid water  purged from my crankcase while allow

clean cool air in. OK here goes first attachment.



Rick

--

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