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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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 Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: Painting |
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I am painting my RV7 project right now. I have never done anything but rattle can jobs before. I got some advice, some Valspar Polyurathane and this is the advice I can provide below.
I am just amazed how well my parts are turning out.
Frank
602 HDS for sale
RV7a painting
From one rookie painter to another...it is a lot easier than I thought it would be.
Buy two 20 ounce HF guns...1) gravity feed gun (it is NOT an HVLP gun and is sometimes on sale for $15...Piece of crap but works great for primer. Under no circumstances use this for top coat.
2) HVLP HF gun (looks the same but it is a true HVLP and is sometimes on sale for $40).
If it was on sale I would also buy the touch up gun regular prce around $60...So sweet for little jobs. Right now I still have my friend's touch up gun.
Its hard to describe the difference between these guns until you use each one...Needless to say the primer gun will absolutly ruin your paint job if you use it for top coat. You will spend close to $1000 on paint...Needless to say the guns are dirt cheap in comparison.
Primer...piece of cake.
Top coat...Thin the paint a little more than it says on the can. Buy a pint of cheap (er) white paint...Tell the guy you want to practice.
Put 50psi on the gun while the trigger is pulled...i.e the running pressure, even thoguh HF say use like 28psi...You'll thank me later!
Setup the gun to make the classic cigar shape...you point the gun at the wall and and pull and let go of the trigger without moviing the gun...You should get the classic ciger shape...You can adjust the width of the fan and how much paint is sprayed. The site www.hotrodders.com will show you the correct pattern.
Hold the gun pfectly perpenduclar to the surface...never swing the gun.
Start with the paint spraying before you get to the panel...and keeep the gun at 6 to 8" from the surface. The speed of travel will be surprisingly slow.
Now to practice, get an old metal shelf, propane cylinder, neighbour's car...anything you don't care about and can prop up vertically.
Here's the deal...If you travel the gun too fast you will get a dry spray that will sit on the surface, i.e it won't flow...This is called orange peel.
If you go too slow it will run...Actually its hard to make it run unless....You can't see it porperly..This is where you need a LOT of light at an angle to the surface...best light is outside but you need to make a tent with a filtered supply and extract system....If its not a windy day I guess you could build one outside with clear visqueen...Good luck!
I got runs on my wheelpants in a couple of places because at the last minute I moved the fuse out of the shop and the remaining area (where I painted the pants) was dimly lit....Home Depot and Shop lights! Are two terms that should be used in the same sentence!...Have one overhead and one screwed to the wall to shine at the same horizontal surface.
Avoid the temptation to try to "dust in the paint"...it won't work. It has to be put on as a full wet coat...You probably have half a minute where you could add to the run where maybe it got a bit thin but nore longer as it will sit on top of the old paint. This is why doing very deliberate runs with proper overlap on a large surface is paramount to avoid orangepeel.
Always rig your control surfaces horizontally...This is an absolute pain in the a..! It took me about 3 hours to rig the flaps, ailerons, elevators and empanage this way...And you want to be able to flip them over and both sides at the same time..."Why?" you ask?...Remember how the paint won't flow together unless its wet?...thats why both sides need to be wet or you will get a seam where the two paint sessions join together....Remember you can't touch the surface when its painted... .
Put one coat on the top surface, flip over botoom surface and flip back to the top for the second coat...Should leave about 10 minutes for the second coat...So might want to do two elavators...I.e one coat on each and then your 10 mins will be up....Flip so that bottom side is UP...You will get some dust, best to be where no one will see it.
The obvious question is...well I have to paint the fuse vertically so why go to the trouble of rigging the control surfaces as above...good point and it comes down to risk...I.e it is impossible to get a run on a horizontal surface (except at the edges). If you get a run you can(apparently...i did it once) have a paper towel and laquer thinner and real wet slop the run off and repaint.
Little scary but it did work when I tried it...Otherwise you got to wait till it dries and wet sand it out and polish. Remember you can't dust in a little paint and the hard paint is like bomb proof!...A hell of a lot of work to sand and buff runs out!...So the work of rigging horizontally is worth it to reduce the risk of runs.
When painting vertically spray a tack coat and wait 10 minutes....just a light skim...move gun fast. This will enable the wet coat to stick much better...When you practice on the propane tank don't apply a tack coat and see how hard it is to make it run.
Runs really only happen when you put multiple wet coats on...like on a wheel pant facing nose down...it tapers going to the top...So, if you can't see well, you do it in vertical stripes...but it gets narrower going towards the top so guess what happens, you keep going over and over the narrow part...DOH!
Anyway, there it is FWIW.
Compressor...Mine is oil free...You will get fish eyes if there is ANY oil in your air supply...Speaking of which I made my own fresh air breathing system....put these terms together...Respirator (WITH pesticide filter, which is organic vapour and particulate), OIL FREE!!!!!!!! air compressor,...Tee in a air hose...Works great and saves $400 for a Hobby air.
Sounds like a lot to take in but I picked it up pretty quickly with no one looking over my shoulder.
Frank
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larry(at)macsmachine.com
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Painting |
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Good going Frank,
You've saved yourself a bundle doing your own paint. It does take some
planning, but it's definitely a job that's worth learning.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
| Quote: | I am painting my RV7 project right now. I have never done anything
but rattle can jobs before. I got some advice, some Valspar
Polyurathane and this is the advice I can provide below.
I am just amazed how well my parts are turning out.
Frank
602 HDS for sale
RV7a painting
From one rookie painter to another...it is a lot easier than I thought
it would be.
Buy two 20 ounce HF guns...1) gravity feed gun (it is NOT an HVLP gun
and is sometimes on sale for $15...Piece of crap but works great for
primer. Under no circumstances use this for top coat.
2) HVLP HF gun (looks the same but it is a true HVLP and is sometimes
on sale for $40).
If it was on sale I would also buy the touch up gun regular prce
around $60...So sweet for little jobs. Right now I still have my
friend's touch up gun.
Its hard to describe the difference between these guns until you use
each one...Needless to say the primer gun will absolutly ruin your
paint job if you use it for top coat. You will spend close to $1000 on
paint...Needless to say the guns are dirt cheap in comparison.
Primer...piece of cake.
Top coat...Thin the paint a little more than it says on the can. Buy a
pint of cheap (er) white paint...Tell the guy you want to practice.
Put 50psi on the gun while the trigger is pulled...i.e the running
pressure, even thoguh HF say use like 28psi...You'll thank me later!
Setup the gun to make the classic cigar shape...you point the gun at
the wall and and pull and let go of the trigger without moviing the
gun...You should get the classic ciger shape...You can adjust the
width of the fan and how much paint is sprayed. The site
_www.hotrodders.com_ <outbind://81/www.hotrodders.com> will show you
the correct pattern.
Hold the gun pfectly perpenduclar to the surface...never swing the gun.
Start with the paint spraying before you get to the panel...and keeep
the gun at 6 to 8" from the surface. The speed of travel will be
surprisingly slow.
Now to practice, get an old metal shelf, propane cylinder, neighbour's
car...anything you don't care about and can prop up vertically.
Here's the deal...If you travel the gun too fast you will get a dry
spray that will sit on the surface, i.e it won't flow...This is called
orange peel.
If you go too slow it will run...Actually its hard to make it run
unless....You can't see it porperly..This is where you need a LOT of
light at an angle to the surface...best light is outside but you need
to make a tent with a filtered supply and extract system....If its not
a windy day I guess you could build one outside with clear
visqueen...Good luck!
I got runs on my wheelpants in a couple of places because at the last
minute I moved the fuse out of the shop and the remaining area (where
I painted the pants) was dimly lit....Home Depot and Shop lights! Are
two terms that should be used in the same sentence!...Have one
overhead and one screwed to the wall to shine at the same horizontal
surface.
Avoid the temptation to try to "dust in the paint"...it won't work. It
has to be put on as a full wet coat...You probably have half a minute
where you could add to the run where maybe it got a bit thin but nore
longer as it will sit on top of the old paint. This is why doing very
deliberate runs with proper overlap on a large surface is paramount to
avoid orangepeel.
Always rig your control surfaces horizontally...This is an absolute
pain in the a..! It took me about 3 hours to rig the flaps, ailerons,
elevators and empanage this way...And you want to be able to flip them
over and both sides at the same time..."Why?" you ask?...Remember how
the paint won't flow together unless its wet?...thats why both sides
need to be wet or you will get a seam where the two paint sessions
join together....Remember you can't touch the surface when its
painted....
Put one coat on the top surface, flip over botoom surface and flip
back to the top for the second coat...Should leave about 10 minutes
for the second coat...So might want to do two elavators...I.e one coat
on each and then your 10 mins will be up....Flip so that bottom side
is UP...You will get some dust, best to be where no one will see it.
The obvious question is...well I have to paint the fuse vertically so
why go to the trouble of rigging the control surfaces as above...good
point and it comes down to risk...I.e it is impossible to get a run on
a horizontal surface (except at the edges). If you get a run you
can(apparently...i did it once) have a paper towel and laquer thinner
and real wet slop the run off and repaint.
Little scary but it did work when I tried it...Otherwise you got to
wait till it dries and wet sand it out and polish. Remember you can't
dust in a little paint and the hard paint is like bomb proof!...A hell
of a lot of work to sand and buff runs out!...So the work of rigging
horizontally is worth it to reduce the risk of runs.
When painting vertically spray a tack coat and wait 10 minutes....just
a light skim...move gun fast. This will enable the wet coat to stick
much better...When you practice on the propane tank don't apply a tack
coat and see how hard it is to make it run.
Runs really only happen when you put multiple wet coats on...like on a
wheel pant facing nose down...it tapers going to the top...So, if you
can't see well, you do it in vertical stripes...but it gets narrower
going towards the top so guess what happens, you keep going over and
over the narrow part...DOH!
Anyway, there it is FWIW.
Compressor...Mine is oil free...You will get fish eyes if there is ANY
oil in your air supply...Speaking of which I made my own fresh air
breathing system....put these terms together...Respirator (WITH
pesticide filter, which is organic vapour and particulate), OIL
FREE!!!!!!!! air compressor,...Tee in a air hose...Works great and
saves $400 for a Hobby air.
Sounds like a lot to take in but I picked it up pretty quickly with no
one looking over my shoulder.
Frank
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: Painting |
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Thanks Larry I thought it would be like my first welds...I.e an
unmitigated disaster and waste $1000 in paint, but its awesome to see
the fine result.
I'll attach a pic, don't know if it will work but lets see.
Frank
Do not archive
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naumuk(at)alltel.net
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Painting |
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Excellent journal, George. Going into my "Keepers" file.
Bill
[quote] ---
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: Painting |
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HF now has the primer gun on sale (20 oz gravity feed spray gun part #
47016) for $19.99...Not bad...I'm looking out for the HVLP touch up gun
to go on sale.
Frank
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pmoore505(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: Painting |
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It came up at $14.99 this morning. The detail gun is down to $39.99
(46719-1VGA)
Paul
Do Not Archive
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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pmoore505(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: Painting |
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No Frank, I don't know for sure. I would think though with it being gravity
fed, and smaller nozzle orifice implies lower liquid flow, you could get by
with much less than 43psi.
Paul
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: Painting |
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Actually no you won't...Well "getting away with" is not a term that
works when pinting an airplane. Remember I only got good results by
turning UP the pressure. The 20Oz gun requires (they say) 28psi...I got
marginal to poor results (i.e BAD orange peel) at 28psi and excellent
results at 50 psi.
I tried 55psi this morning but the results did not improve so I will go
back to 50psi from now on.
The touch up gun I also run at 50psi and the results were just stunning.
Frank
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Painting |
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Bought the detail gun and indeed it had "HVLP" stamped on the side and
appears identical to the one I am borrowing.
I have not used it yet but have no doubt it will proovide excellent
results.
Frank
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