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alienwes
Joined: 11 Dec 2012 Posts: 64 Location: Roswell, NM
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: Classic and Xtra |
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How many Classics and Xtras are out there? Are there alot more Classics than Xtras?
Also, what are the benefits of each over the other?
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_________________ Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC |
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yellowbird1
Joined: 01 Nov 2012 Posts: 88
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: Classic and Xtra |
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As I do not as of yet have a Kolb and have only ridden in the Classic, the reasons that I'm looking at the Xtra are:
1. More elbow room in the cockpit.
2. Your legs are not canted towards the center of the cabin.
3. It's a bit faster than the Classic.
4. The instrument panel is closer, but I think it's smaller (I haven't compared any measurements though.)
There seem to be more Classics than Xtras for sale. Again I have no data for this assumption.
( We know what assumption does, it makes an as out of you and Umption, and Umption is getting pissed off.)
The down side is they typically cost more, new and used.
Sent from my iPad
Brad
On Feb 28, 2013, at 18:24, "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
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_________________ Brad Nation,
Albuquerque, NM
MK3 Xtra |
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c Guest
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject: Classic and Xtra |
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Brad Nation <nationcap(at)comcast.net>
As I do not as of yet have a Kolb and have only ridden in the Classic, the reasons that I'm looking at the Xtra are:
1. More elbow room in the cockpit. never been in an extra,,,, not sure about elbow room,, but certainly more room further forward.
2. Your legs are not canted towards the center of the cabin. absolutely true about the canted in legs,,, but you get use to it very quickly and it is a non issue, at least for me.
3. It's a bit faster than the Classic. don’t think either one will win at the reno air races,,,, unless you are going cross country it should not make much difference.
4. The instrument panel is closer, but I think it's smaller (I haven't compared any measurements though.) I think there is a pod that is closer, but more room beyond the pod.
There seem to be more Classics than Xtras for sale. Again I have no data for this assumption. they sold more classics for more years, so I think that is true.
I have heard, but have no first hand information,, the broad nose of the extra causes some handling differences.. those that have flown both tend to lean to the classic. but you will find firm believers/ supporters in both camps.
Sent from my iPad
Brad
sent from my home confuser...
boyd young
mkiii c
utah
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:42 am Post subject: Classic and Xtra |
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the broad nose of the extra causes some handling differences>>
The airflow over the broad nose of the Xtra produces a little lift if you yaw wildly in a turn or if you sideslip.
Nothing to worry about. You will find it difficult to detect. In any case if you turn properly there is no effect and there is no point in sideslipping as the lack of fuselage means that dropping the brakes will increase your descent rate much more than sideslipping would.
By the way I have finally sold my Xtra. It departed for the North of England in a snowstorm on an open trailer a couple of weeks ago.
I shall miss her and I am now well and truly grounded. I shall never own a plane again.
On the other hand for a hobby flyer who took his first flight in a glider in 1964. it has not been so bad. 19 glider types, 9 `real `planes including a T6 and a P 51. 12 ultralights, 2 amphibians,2 jets and a twin and flown in 7 countries.
What shall I do next ?
Cheers
Pat
[quote][b]
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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Posts: 1392 Location: Udall, KS, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:23 am Post subject: Classic and Xtra |
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I'm lucky to be able to say I've flown both, about 200 hours in my IIIC and about 20 in the X.Cockpit room. Yep there's more down at your feet in the X. No real difference otherwise. I have big feet so it does make a difference to me.
Flying qualities, there's no real difference that I could find.
Performance variation, again, not much difference. Both the aircraft I flew were 582 powered and the difference between them came down to one thing. Weight. I will never understand builders who just keep adding crap to their planes. It's real simple guys, unless you make some gross errors while building, the lighter plane will always perform better.
I believe, based upon a very small sample, that the C is the better airplane to buy. If I were building I'd have an X except I'd throw away the "duck bill" and make my own nose fairing. Why? When the X came out it was essentially a C with a fat nose, however the nose was flying at a negatice angle of attack. Bryan developed the long gear legs and reset the wing angle of incidence and that pretty much fixed that. If you're building an X, set the wing to the lowest angle recommended, it's the small margin the bottom of the fuselage needs to be at a positive AOA in cruise.
Instrument panel, probably a toss up, but I like the X. When I'm strapped in my C I cannot reach anything on the panel, I have to squirm out of the shoulder harness to do so.
Another bit of advice to X builders, make the nose cone removable. You'll thank me the first time you need to bleed the brakes. You can find short, flanged screws to attach the nose and the lower portion of the windscreen. After I made that change I could remove and reinstall the nose in 10 minutes.
Ingress, egress. No real difference, you just have to learn the method that works for you. Having two sticks increases the difficulty. The throttle on the X is also in the way. I made a new one that was more like the C and that worked for me.
One last tip. If you buy a new 582, get the "C" gearbox with 4 to 1 gears. Most of the noise is from the prop. My neighbors couldn't hear my C when I was on downwind. The X with an "E" gearbox and 2.62 gears could be heard a mile away. Literally. Interestingly I was told by the folks at Warp Drive that I absolutely had the wrong gears and the prop wouldn't work (a three blade, 66") I tested it on the X and there were two noticeable differences, noise and size of the rudder trim tab. My C can almost get by without one. It's only six inches long and has a 5 degree bend. I had to keep a little left rudder in climb and a tiny bit of right rudder in cruise. I tried everything I could think of with the X and could not make it comfortable to fly (i.e. no cramps in my left leg) without the "barn door" trim tab deflected 30 degrees.
That's about all I can think of right off.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Pat Ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
Quote: | the broad nose of the extra causes some handling differences>>
�
The airflow over the broad nose of the Xtra produces a little lift if you yaw wildly in a turn or if you sideslip.
Nothing to worry about. You will find it difficult to detect. In any case if you turn properly there is no effect and there is no point in sideslipping as the lack of fuselage means that dropping the brakes will increase your descent rate much more than sideslipping would.
�
By the way I have finally sold my Xtra. It departed for the North of England in a snowstorm on an open trailer a couple of weeks ago.
I shall miss her and I am now well and truly grounded. I shall never own a plane again.
On the other hand for a hobby flyer who took his first flight in a glider in 1964. it has not been so bad. 19 glider types, 9 `real `planes including a T6 and a P 51. 12 ultralights, 2 amphibians,2 jets and a twin and flown in 7 countries.
What shall I do next�?
�
Cheers
�
Pat
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Mk IIIC
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It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
� - Groucho Marx
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