stan_tew(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/04/13 |
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You'd think that a gascolator , fuel filter, and/or very small opening in the fuel pump diaphragm would catch these particles. That's what I thought. WRONG! I have no idea how those particles got there, but once there, they were devastating. They may have actually been part of the fuel line past all those devices. While I can't totally blame ethanol I believe it was a significant contributing factor. Anyway, it doesn't take all that long to clean the system. It takes much longer to repair the damage.
STAN 2
N29TD
From: RotaxEngines-List Digest Server <rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com>
To: RotaxEngines-List Digest List <rotaxengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 2:00 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/04/13
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Total Messages Posted Sat 05/04/13: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:39 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13 (Stan Tew)
2. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13 (Hugh McKay)
3. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13 (FLYaDIVE)
4. 03:07 PM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13 (Roger Lee)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 06:39:34 AM PST US
From: Stan Tew <stan_tew(at)yahoo.com (stan_tew(at)yahoo.com)>
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13
Another place to look for debris while you have the carb in your hand is th
e inlet line. Although the id of the fuel line is 1/4 going over the hose b
arb down at the bottom where the fuel actually flows into the float bowl th
e orifice is MUCH smaller. Bits of debris can cover the orifice preventing
any fuel from entering the float bowl. The other cylinder mayor may not be
okay but the engine will not run enough to produce power on 1 cylinder. Che
ck both!=0A=0A=0AI say this from experience. I had to land my Kitfox II in
the trees due to such obstruction. I was unhurt but the plane was badly dam
aged=0A=0A-=0ASTAN 2=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Ro
taxEngines-List Digest Server <rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)>=0ATo: Rotax
Engines-List Digest List <rotaxengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com)> =0ASent:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 2:00 AM=0ASubject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs -
05/03/13=0A =0A=0A*=0A=0A================
==========0A- Online Versions of Today's List Digest A
rchive=0A======================
====0A=0AToday's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found
in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes
the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes t
he plain ASCII version =0Aof the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed
with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A
=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.ph
p?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-05-03&Archive=RotaxEngines=0A
=0AText Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.ph
p?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-05-03&Archive=RotaxEngines=0A
=0A=0A=======================
=0A- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A======
==================0A=0A=0A- - - -
- ----------------------------------------------------------=0A- -
- - - - - - - - - - - RotaxEngines-List Digest Archi
ve=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Poste
d Fri 05/03/13: 1=0A- - - - - ----------------------------------
------------------------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A-----------------
-----=0A=0A- - 1. 07:05 AM - Carb bowl obstruction - Don't be stranded
- (Roger Lee)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 1-
_____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:05:27 AM PST US=0AS
ubject: RotaxEngines-List: Carb bowl obstruction - Don't be stranded=0AFrom
: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>=0A=0A=0AHi Guys,=0A=0AYour flying along
and the engine looses power to about 3800-4000 rpm and runs rough.=0AIt co
uld be a couple of things, but first suspect a carb bowl main jet obstructi
on.=0AHere is a simple tip that may keep you flying and get your rpm back
=0Aand if that fails how to do a self rescue and not be stranded and all yo
u need=0Ais a screwdriver. You can do this fix and be back in the air in 30
minutes.=0AI have done this and know it works.=0A=0AThe debris may never b
e detected during a run up on the ground. There usually isn't=0Aenough fuel
flow- for a good main jet suction and no sloshing or turbulence=0Aof the
fuel in the carb bowl. In cruise flight you now have a good fuel flow,=0At
urbulence within the bowl and plenty of upward suction to draw that piece
=0Aof debris right up against the main jet.=0A=0AHere is an in air fix you
can try, but there is no guarantee. While you are doing=0Athis next maneuve
r you should be looking for an appropriate landing spot. Either=0Aan airfie
ld or a decent road. =0AYour first instinct is to go full throttle to get m
ore rpm.That only holds the=0Adebris harder against the main jet, but it is
human nature to try for more rpm.=0AOnce that fails and providing you have
a little altitude pull the throttle back=0Ato idle and glide for about 15
seconds with a little- side to side "S" turns.=0AWhen the throttle is bac
k at idle the main jet is not in play and the suction=0Ais gone allowing th
e debris to hopefully fall away and settle to a lower point.=0AThe idle jet
is separate from the main jet. After your 15 second glide slowly=0Aadvance
the throttle back to cruise rpm and head for an airport.=0A=0AIf this in a
ir idle rpm fix doesn't work then continue to a safe landing.=0AOnce on the
ground then take off the upper cowl. Pop the carb retention spring=0Aoff,
then loosen the carb flange screw and push the carb back out of the rubber
=0Aflange socket. It's snug so push hard. If you have the older stainless s
teel=0Afuel supply lines you can now lift the carb upward enough to clear t
he drip tray=0Ato take the carb bowl off. If you have the red Teflon fuel l
ines all the better=0Abecause you can lift the carbs and rotate them out to
wards you to have a=0Alittle better access to the bowl and bale. If you don
't have a drip tray then=0Athis is real easy.=0ANow push or pry with your s
crewdriver the carb bowl bale back towards the firewall.=0ADrop the carb bo
wl and look for your debris and toss the bad fuel out. Put=0Athe carb bowl
back in place making sure it fits into its mounting outside edge=0Agrove an
d pull the bale back in place. Be mindful of the bowl gasket. Push=0Athe ca
rb back into the rubber flange until you hear and feel it kind of seat in
=0Aplace. You will feel it snap in place and the carb will look like it is
in far=0Aenough that it can't go any further. Tighten the rubber flange ret
ention ring=0Ascrew and do the same procedure to the other side. Once both
are done put the=0Acowl on and test run at full throttle for about 5 minute
s. =0A=0AIf you have the stock Rotax airbox then you will need to loosen th
e airbox side=0Arubber flange and slide it out of the way to push the carb
back out of the rubber=0Aflange. So both sides of the carb gets the rubber
flange loosened.=0A=0AYou should now be ready to take off and head for home
.=0A=0AIt works.=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedde
d&v=JdS7OtbcxwY=0A=0A--------=0ARoger Lee=0ATucson, Az.=0ALight Sport Rep
airman - Maintenance Rated=0ARotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated=0AHom
e 520-574-1080- TRY HOME FIRST=0ACell 520-349-7056=0A=0A=0ARead this topi
c online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399904#39
=
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 07:25:31 AM PST US
From: "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13
Wouldn=92t a gascolator and proper sized filter upstream of the engine
(between the main fuel tank and the carbs) prevent this problem?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912 UL
From: Stan Tew
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 9:39 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs -
05/03/13
Another place to look for debris while you have the carb in your hand is
the inlet line. Although the id of the fuel line is 1/4 going over the
hose barb down at the bottom where the fuel actually flows into the
float bowl the orifice is MUCH smaller. Bits of debris can cover the
orifice preventing any fuel from entering the float bowl. The other
cylinder mayor may not be okay but the engine will not run enough to
produce power on 1 cylinder. Check both!
I say this from experience. I had to land my Kitfox II in the trees due
to such obstruction. I was unhurt but the plane was badly damaged
STAN 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: RotaxEngines-List Digest Server <rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)>
<rotaxengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2013 2:00 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 13-05-03&Archive=RotaxEngines
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 13-05-03&Archive=RotaxEngines
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 05/03/13: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:05 AM - Carb bowl obstruction - Don't be stranded (Roger Lee)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 07:05:27 AM PST US
Subject: Carb bowl obstruction - Don't be stranded
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Guys,
Your flying along and the engine looses power to about 3800-4000 rpm and
runs rough.
It could be a couple of things, but first suspect a carb bowl main jet
obstruction.
Here is a simple tip that may keep you flying and get your rpm back
and if that fails how to do a self rescue and not be stranded and all
you need
is a screwdriver. You can do this fix and be back in the air in 30
minutes.
I have done this and know it works.
The debris may never be detected during a run up on the ground. There
usually isn't
enough fuel flow for a good main jet suction and no sloshing or
turbulence
of the fuel in the carb bowl. In cruise flight you now have a good fuel
flow,
turbulence within the bowl and plenty of upward suction to draw that
piece
of debris right up against the main jet.
Here is an in air fix you can try, but there is no guarantee. While you
are doing
this next maneuver you should be looking for an appropriate landing
spot. Either
an airfield or a decent road.
Your first instinct is to go full throttle to get more rpm.That only
holds the
debris harder against the main jet, but it is human nature to try for
more rpm.
Once that fails and providing you have a little altitude pull the
throttle back
to idle and glide for about 15 seconds with a little side to side "S"
turns.
When the throttle is back at idle the main jet is not in play and the
suction
is gone allowing the debris to hopefully fall away and settle to a lower
point.
The idle jet is separate from the main jet. After your 15 second glide
slowly
advance the throttle back to cruise rpm and head for an airport.
If this in air idle rpm fix doesn't work then continue to a safe
landing.
Once on the ground then take off the upper cowl. Pop the carb retention
spring
off, then loosen the carb flange screw and push the carb back out of the
rubber
flange socket. It's snug so push hard. If you have the older stainless
steel
fuel supply lines you can now lift the carb upward enough to clear the
drip tray
to take the carb bowl off. If you have the red Teflon fuel lines all the
better
because you can lift the carbs and rotate them out towards you to have a
little better access to the bowl and bale. If you don't have a drip tray
then
this is real easy.
Now push or pry with your screwdriver the carb bowl bale back towards
the firewall.
Drop the carb bowl and look for your debris and toss the bad fuel out.
Put
the carb bowl back in place making sure it fits into its mounting
outside edge
grove and pull the bale back in place. Be mindful of the bowl gasket.
Push
the carb back into the rubber flange until you hear and feel it kind of
seat in
place. You will feel it snap in place and the carb will look like it is
in far
enough that it can't go any further. Tighten the rubber flange retention
ring
screw and do the same procedure to the other side. Once both are done
put the
cowl on and test run at full throttle for about 5 minutes.
If you have the stock Rotax airbox then you will need to loosen the
airbox side
rubber flange and slide it out of the way to push the carb back out of
the rubber
flange. So both sides of the carb gets the rubber flange loosened.
You should now be ready to take off and head for home.
It works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JdS7OtbcxwY
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399904#399904
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEnginp; -->
http:=======================
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 08:39:38 AM PST US
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
Stan:
Sorry for your "experience" and glad you walked away from it.
But why does Rotax have so many stupid design faults?
I know it is not your fault, but is there a difference between Rotax
experimental and Rotax certified?
*Barry*
| Quote: | Time: 07:05:27 AM PST US
Subject: Carb bowl obstruction - Don't be stranded
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Guys,
Your flying along and the engine looses power to about 3800-4000 rpm and
runs rough.
It could be a couple of things, but first suspect a carb bowl main jet
obstruction.
Here is a simple tip that may keep you flying and get your rpm back
and if that fails how to do a self rescue and not be stranded and all you
need
is a screwdriver. You can do this fix and be back in the air in 30 minutes.
I have done this and know it works.
The debris may never be detected during a run up on the ground. There
usually isn't
enough fuel flow for a good main jet suction and no sloshing or turbulence
of the fuel in the carb bowl. In cruise flight you now have a good fuel
flow,
turbulence within the bowl and plenty of upward suction to draw that piece
of debris right up against the main jet.
Here is an in air fix you can try, but there is no guarantee. While you
are doing
this next maneuver you should be looking for an appropriate landing spot.
Either
an airfield or a decent road.
Your first instinct is to go full throttle to get more rpm.That only holds
the
debris harder against the main jet, but it is human nature to try for more
rpm.
Once that fails and providing you have a little altitude pull the throttle
back
to idle and glide for about 15 seconds with a little side to side "S"
turns.
When the throttle is back at idle the main jet is not in play and the
suction
is gone allowing the debris to hopefully fall away and settle to a lower
point.
The idle jet is separate from the main jet. After your 15 second glide
slowly
advance the throttle back to cruise rpm and head for an airport.
If this in air idle rpm fix doesn't work then continue to a safe landing.
Once on the ground then take off the upper cowl. Pop the carb retention
spring
off, then loosen the carb flange screw and push the carb back out of the
rubber
flange socket. It's snug so push hard. If you have the older stainless
steel
fuel supply lines you can now lift the carb upward enough to clear the
drip tray
to take the carb bowl off. If you have the red Teflon fuel lines all the
better
because you can lift the carbs and rotate them out towards you to have a
little better access to the bowl and bale. If you don't have a drip tray
then
this is real easy.
Now push or pry with your screwdriver the carb bowl bale back towards the
firewall.
Drop the carb bowl and look for your debris and toss the bad fuel out. Put
the carb bowl back in place making sure it fits into its mounting outside
edge
grove and pull the bale back in place. Be mindful of the bowl gasket. Push
the carb back into the rubber flange until you hear and feel it kind of
seat in
place. You will feel it snap in place and the carb will look like it is in
far
enough that it can't go any further. Tighten the rubber flange retention
ring
screw and do the same procedure to the other side. Once both are done put
the
cowl on and test run at full throttle for about 5 minutes.
If you have the stock Rotax airbox then you will need to loosen the airbox
side
rubber flange and slide it out of the way to push the carb back out of the
rubber
flange. So both sides of the carb gets the rubber flange loosened.
You should now be ready to take off and head for home.
It works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JdS7OtbcxwY
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
|
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 03:07:41 PM PST US
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/03/13
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Hugh,
The problem has been that not everyone has a gascolator or a fuel filter far enough
downstream. the main hose offenders isn't from hose before the fuel pump
because it has a filter screen inside, but from hose past the pump. The fuel hose
from the pump pressure side out is a problem at times. Some 912's have the
stainless steel lines mounted from the fuel distribution block mounted on the
carb balance tube, some don't. Some have the red Teflon fuel line from this point
and some have just rubber fuel line right out of the pump to the carbs.
Read this and you'll get a better handle on what some of the issues have been.
My original post here was to just give you another tool in your mental toolbox
for the "just in case" scenario.
http://www.rotax-owner.com/rotax-blog/item/21-rotax-5-year-rubber-replacement-the-installation-considerations
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399964#399964http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rotsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
= --> http://forums.matr &nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co==================
[quote][b]
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