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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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 Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:49 pm Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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We have a very expensive power supply/battery charger. Â It's for aircraft use, purchaed from an aircraft vendor, and even has a picture of an airplane on it.
http://www.bycansystems.com/products/avionics/Blue_Angel.html
I think I mentioned here before that it overcharges Odyssey batteries, at about 15.3V. Â The manufacturer recently provided us with a kit to lower the voltage slightly. Â The kit consists of a heavy aluminum plate supporting three huge 15 ohm/50W resistors wired in parallel. Â The whole thing gets wired across the output of the charger to act as an additional load to drop the voltage into the acceptable Odyssey range.
I tried it on some 12V batteries and it works fine.  But on a 24V battery (not an Odyssey) , it got so hot that it let the magic smoke out of the feed wires to the resistor plate.  Plus it's a personnel hazard and it smells bad.
The manufacturer said "huh, that's weird" and sent me another resistor plate.
Before I install it for round II, does this sound like a reasonable approach, or should I just expect the same results?
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
[quote][b]
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enginerdy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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Wow, those guys know what 'brute force' means..
Maybe a dumb question, but do you need to drop the voltage for the 24v non-odyssey battery?
Daniel
On May 9, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]We have a very expensive power supply/battery charger. It's for aircraft use, purchaed from an aircraft vendor, and even has a picture of an airplane on it.
http://www.bycansystems.com/products/avionics/Blue_Angel.html
I think I mentioned here before that it overcharges Odyssey batteries, at about 15.3V. The manufacturer recently provided us with a kit to lower the voltage slightly. The kit consists of a heavy aluminum plate supporting three huge 15 ohm/50W resistors wired in parallel. The whole thing gets wired across the output of the charger to act as an additional load to drop the voltage into the acceptable Odyssey range.
I tried it on some 12V batteries and it works fine. But on a 24V battery (not an Odyssey) , it got so hot that it let the magic smoke out of the feed wires to the resistor plate. Plus it's a personnel hazard and it smells bad.
The manufacturer said "huh, that's weird" and sent me another resistor plate.
Before I install it for round II, does this sound like a reasonable approach, or should I just expect the same results?
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
[b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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At 03:47 PM 5/9/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | We have a very expensive power supply/battery charger. Â It's for aircraft use, purchaed from an aircraft vendor, and even has a picture of an airplane on it.
http://www.bycansystems.com/products/avionics/Blue_Angel.html
I think I mentioned here before that it overcharges Odyssey batteries, at about 15.3V. Â The manufacturer recently provided us with a kit to lower the voltage slightly. Â The kit consists of a heavy aluminum plate supporting three huge 15 ohm/50W resistors wired in parallel. Â The whole thing gets wired across the output of the charger to act as an additional load to drop the voltage into the acceptable Odyssey range.
I tried it on some 12V batteries and it works fine.  But on a 24V battery (not an Odyssey) , it got so hot that it let the magic smoke out of the feed wires to the resistor plate.  Plus it's a personnel hazard and it smells bad.
The manufacturer said "huh, that's weird" and sent me another resistor plate.
Before I install it for round II, does this sound like a reasonable approach, or should I just expect the same results? |
Man! This is sad. There is no reason whatsoever
for this kind of behavior. Getting a smart charger
to behave is child's play. External band-aids are
inexcusable.
Oh fooey, I just read the fine print. "Ferro-resonant
regulation" . . . by today's standards this is just
one step above no regulation and certainly not controlled
for accurate battery charging. This is 1940's technology.
It would be really interesting to see what's inside
this 'magic' box. Maybe I ought to design one. I'm
thinking of a charger that one could plug into
a computer USB port to set charge current, plateau
voltage for bulk charge, trigger current level for
recession to sustaining voltage, and sustaining
voltage. A kind of Super Battery Minder with
flexibility to charge ANY svla battery up to and
including 24 volts.
I've got another program on the back burner to
do a new alternator regulator that calls for
some cross-over technology with the battery
charger.
Of course that doesn't help you right now. Is
this the only charger you have right now? It's
okay for ground power but as you've discovered,
NOT a good charger. How much current do you NEED
for ground power service? As a general rule,
ground power carts for aircraft should be either
13 or 26 volt output and NEVER used to charge
a battery. Battery chargers should be 'smart'
devices that do the SVLA three-stroke waltz . . .
CHARGE, BULK, SUSTAIN . . .
Of course it's possible to build a device that will
DO both. You can float a battery across a 13/26v ground
power supply -OR- do the 3-stroke waltz on a stand-alone
battery . . . but not both at the same time.
The device you have seems entirely unsuited to battery
charging.
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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Bob,
If you're looking at something that plugs into a USB port, look and the Raspberry Pi computer and include it in the charger.
do not archive
| Quote: | Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine |
On 05/09/2013 05:51 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
[quote] At 03:47 PM 5/9/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | We have a very expensive power supply/battery charger. Â It's for aircraft use, purchaed from an aircraft vendor, and even has a picture of an airplane on it.
http://www.bycansystems.com/products/avionics/Blue_Angel.html
I think I mentioned here before that it overcharges Odyssey batteries, at about 15.3V. Â The manufacturer recently provided us with a kit to lower the voltage slightly. Â The kit consists of a heavy aluminum plate supporting three huge 15 ohm/50W resistors wired in parallel. Â The whole thing gets wired across the output of the charger to act as an additional load to drop the voltage into the acceptable Odyssey range.
I tried it on some 12V batteries and it works fine.  But on a 24V battery (not an Odyssey) , it got so hot that it let the magic smoke out of the feed wires to the resistor plate.  Plus it's a personnel hazard and it smells bad.
The manufacturer said "huh, that's weird" and sent me another resistor plate.
Before I install it for round II, does this sound like a reasonable approach, or should I just expect the same results? |
Man! This is sad. There is no reason whatsoever
for this kind of behavior. Getting a smart charger
to behave is child's play. External band-aids are
inexcusable.
Oh fooey, I just read the fine print. "Ferro-resonant
regulation" . . . by today's standards this is just
one step above no regulation and certainly not controlled
for accurate battery charging. This is 1940's technology.
It would be really interesting to see what's inside
this 'magic' box. Maybe I ought to design one. I'm
thinking of a charger that one could plug into
a computer USB port to set charge current, plateau
voltage for bulk charge, trigger current level for
recession to sustaining voltage, and sustaining
voltage. A kind of Super Battery Minder with
flexibility to charge ANY svla battery up to and
including 24 volts.
I've got another program on the back burner to
do a new alternator regulator that calls for
some cross-over technology with the battery
charger.
Of course that doesn't help you right now. Is
this the only charger you have right now? It's
okay for ground power but as you've discovered,
NOT a good charger. How much current do you NEED
for ground power service? As a general rule,
ground power carts for aircraft should be either
13 or 26 volt output and NEVER used to charge
a battery. Battery chargers should be 'smart'
devices that do the SVLA three-stroke waltz . . .
CHARGE, BULK, SUSTAIN . . .
Of course it's possible to build a device that will
DO both. You can float a battery across a 13/26v ground
power supply -OR- do the 3-stroke waltz on a stand-alone
battery . . . but not both at the same time.
The device you have seems entirely unsuited to battery
charging.
Bob . . . [b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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I think we'll just give up on using it to charge. Â I'll disable the charge mode and just use it as a power supply.
I've seen what's inside. Â I'll send you a couple pictures. Â It weighs a ton. Â Well, 46 lbs according to the web page.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Wow, those guys know what 'brute force' means..
Maybe a dumb question, but do you need to drop the voltage for the 24v non-odyssey battery?
Daniel
On May 9, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | We have a very expensive power supply/battery charger. Â It's for aircraft use, purchaed from an aircraft vendor, and even has a picture of an airplane on it.
http://www.bycansystems.com/products/avionics/Blue_Angel.html
I think I mentioned here before that it overcharges Odyssey batteries, at about 15.3V. Â The manufacturer recently provided us with a kit to lower the voltage slightly. Â The kit consists of a heavy aluminum plate supporting three huge 15 ohm/50W resistors wired in parallel. Â The whole thing gets wired across the output of the charger to act as an additional load to drop the voltage into the acceptable Odyssey range.
I tried it on some 12V batteries and it works fine.  But on a 24V battery (not an Odyssey) , it got so hot that it let the magic smoke out of the feed wires to the resistor plate.  Plus it's a personnel hazard and it smells bad.
The manufacturer said "huh, that's weird" and sent me another resistor plate.
Before I install it for round II, does this sound like a reasonable approach, or should I just expect the same results?
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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I don't have a need to adjust the 24V output. Â But the connector is common with the 12V side and I'm hoping to avoid some switching scenario that shuts off the resistors for 24V. Â The heat is present but manageable in 12V mode. Â I put a piece of insulation over the hot area and never saw any smoke until we tried 24V.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Wow, those guys know what 'brute force' means..
Maybe a dumb question, but do you need to drop the voltage for the 24v non-odyssey battery?
Daniel
On May 9, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | We have a very expensive power supply/battery charger. Â It's for aircraft use, purchaed from an aircraft vendor, and even has a picture of an airplane on it.
http://www.bycansystems.com/products/avionics/Blue_Angel.html
I think I mentioned here before that it overcharges Odyssey batteries, at about 15.3V. Â The manufacturer recently provided us with a kit to lower the voltage slightly. Â The kit consists of a heavy aluminum plate supporting three huge 15 ohm/50W resistors wired in parallel. Â The whole thing gets wired across the output of the charger to act as an additional load to drop the voltage into the acceptable Odyssey range.
I tried it on some 12V batteries and it works fine.  But on a 24V battery (not an Odyssey) , it got so hot that it let the magic smoke out of the feed wires to the resistor plate.  Plus it's a personnel hazard and it smells bad.
The manufacturer said "huh, that's weird" and sent me another resistor plate.
Before I install it for round II, does this sound like a reasonable approach, or should I just expect the same results?
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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At 07:38 PM 5/9/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | I think we'll just give up on using it to charge. Â I'll disable the charge mode and just use it as a power supply.
I've seen what's inside. Â I'll send you a couple pictures. Â It weighs a ton. Â Well, 46 lbs according to the web page.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL |
Okay, I think that's a wise move. How are
you fixed for righteous chargers?
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:28 am Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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At 06:52 PM 5/9/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob,
If you're looking at something that plugs into a USB port, look and the Raspberry Pi computer and include it in the charger. |
I've seen that. There's a whole family of cheap DIY
project modules that run Linux and emulates a PC.
I've got some designs that exploit the USB
engine on the PIC uControllers as modern
incarnations of the rudimentary communications
line. This stuff is advancing so rapidly that
one is a little intimidated about carving a
new idea into hardware . . . the damned thing
is in danger of being obsolete before you
get to build anything!
Fortunately, just as a hammer will still drive
a nail, ingredients that went into past recipes
for success in the electronic arts still function
as well today as they used to . . . and there's
no shame in being skilled at driving nails.
I had an uncle who was 6'4", weighed
about 230 and hated finish work. He liked
to frame houses. Drove nails with a rigging
axe . . . one tap to start, two taps to set.
His left thumb and forefinger looked like
victims of the inquisition. I've often wondered
how he would prefer to assemble lumber if he
were alive today . . .
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:06 am Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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Here's a peek under the hood. Â The gold resistors are the dropping kit. Â They go in parallel with the big blue capacitor you can just see in the picture. Â In this picture it's just sitting there, not connected.
Here's the dropping kit in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=05lRvTY6rXA
For now we're using this: Â http://www.geniuschargers.com/G7200/specs
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 07:38 PM 5/9/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | I think we'll just give up on using it to charge. Â I'll disable the charge mode and just use it as a power supply.
I've seen what's inside. Â I'll send you a couple pictures. Â It weighs a ton. Â Well, 46 lbs according to the web page.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL |
 Okay, I think that's a wise move. How are
 you fixed for righteous chargers?
 Bob . . . | Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: Overactive Power Supply |
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At 12:04 PM 5/10/2013, you wrote:
Here's a peek under the hood. Â The gold
resistors are the dropping kit. Â They go in
parallel with the big blue capacitor you can just
see in the picture. Â In this picture it's just sitting there, not connected.
Yeah, the transformer with a big and little
windings is the giveaway. REALLY neat
technology for improving line and load
regulation of substantial loads (100 to
a couple thousand watts). Use to have
one in my darkroom to stabilize the enlarger
lamps. But not nearly accurate enough to
maintain optimal SVLA charging levels.
See: http://tinyurl.com/ckforvu
Here's the dropping kit in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=05lRvTY6rXA
That's unfortunate.
"Chargers" that run that hot haven't been seen for lots
of years. Used to have oen that featured 1000w of lamps
to set the charging current (about 10A) for a 6v battery
out of my '41 Pontiac.
For now we're using this: Â http://www.geniuschargers.com/G7200/specs
Those should be just fine
Bob . . .
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