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mbanus(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:38 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

Bob,

I was wondering if there is an antenna type that I can install on the exterior of my hanger and wire it into the hanger that will provide signal to my FM music radio TV, and VHF handheld. I presently have antennas for each internally mounted inside the hanger.  They work fine until I close the hanger door.  If the outside hanger antenna had a “repeater” inside I think it would work. Is there such a device?  I want to minimize the number of holes I put in the hanger wall.

TNX

Mark Banus

 

 

 

 [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:43 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

At 06:38 AM 6/13/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

I was wondering if there is an antenna type that I can install on 

the exterior of my hanger and wire it into the hanger that will 

provide signal to my FM music radio TV, and VHF handheld. I 

presently have antennas for each internally mounted inside the 

hanger.  They work fine until I close the hanger door.  If the 

outside hanger antenna had a "repeater" inside I think it would 

work. Is there such a device?  I want to minimize the number of 

holes I put in the hanger wall.

TNX

Mark Banus


	


   I presume you're willing to use only one service

   at a time. I.e. you don't need to watch tv and

   listen to the hand-held at the same time.



   There are some effective, broadband antennas most

   notable of which is called the 'discone'. One

   example is offered here



http://tinyurl.com/54fk



   You can build these things pretty easily. It just

   depends on how much your time is worth. If you're

   inclined to hammer one out yourself, consider



http://tinyurl.com/kc9ruge



   The discone is not an efficient antenna but it's

   performance over a broad range of frequencies is

   the selling point. If your TV/FM/VHF signals are

   not 'fringe' levels, the discone is a good option.



   Bob . . .

rv8iator(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:18 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

Mark...



Jim Weir at RST Engineering has a dipole base station kit that works very well for FM radio and VHF com. Â You can build it to whatever center frequency suits you, typically 108-130 Mhz. Â I have built a couple and they work very well. Â They do require a Â lead-in of 50 ohm coax. Â from there you can use a splitter for VHF com radio andÂ FM radio (use a balun to connect coax to twin-lead).

 TV is another antenna as the VHF channels are centered around 75 Mhz.



http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/base_station_antenna.html

 



Chris Stone

RV-8

Newberg, OR



[quote] 

 

 At 06:38 AM 6/13/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Bob,

 I was wondering if there is an antenna type that I can install on the exterior of my hanger and wire it into the hanger that will provide signal to my FM music radio TV, and VHF handheld. I presently have antennas for each internally mounted inside the hanger. Â They work fine until I close the hanger door. Â If the outside hanger antenna had a "repeater" inside I think it would work. Is there such a device? Â I want to minimize the number of holes I put in the hanger wall.

  TNX

 Mark Banus

 	
 

 Â  I presume you're willing to use only one service

 Â  at a time. I.e. you don't need to watch tv and

 Â  listen to the hand-held at the same time.

 

 Â  There are some effective, broadband antennas most

 Â  notable of which is called the 'discone'. One

 Â  example is offered here

 

 http://tinyurl.com/54fk

 

 Â  You can build these things pretty easily. It just

 Â  depends on how much your time is worth. If you're

 Â  inclined to hammer one out yourself, consider

 

 http://tinyurl.com/kc9ruge

 

 Â  The discone is not an efficient antenna but it's

 Â  performance over a broad range of frequencies is

 Â  the selling point. If your TV/FM/VHF signals are

 Â  not 'fringe' levels, the discone is a good option.

 

 Â  Bob . . .

 



 

 [b]

jay(at)horriblehyde.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:30 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

Wow- that practical antenna design document contains a wealth of

information; thanks for the link Bob.



Johannesburg Jay



--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:54 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

At 08:18 AM 6/13/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Mark...



Jim Weir at RST Engineering has a dipole base 

station kit that works very well for FM radio 

and VHF com. Â You can build it to whatever 

center frequency suits you, typically 108-130 

Mhz. Â I have built a couple and they work very 

well. Â They do require a Â lead-in of 50 ohm 

coax. Â from there you can use a splitter for 

VHF com radio andÂ FM radio (use a balun to connect coax to twin-lead).

TV is another antenna as the VHF channels are centered around 75 Mhz.


	


   The off-air VHF tv channels run 59 to 88 Mhz for ch 2-6

   and then skip over the fm broadcast, vhf aviation, ham

   radio and pubic service frequencies to pick up at 175-

   216 Mhz for ch 7-13.  The dipole Jim describes is probably

   no less efficient at the extremes of your range of

   interest than the discone.

   Bob . . .

billp(at)wwpc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:02 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

But since the digital TV conversion, most of the TV channels are now     on UHF (even if they show up as "Channel 2" on your set) you need     some antenna elements in the 500-800 MHz range too. At least in the     Seattle/Tacoma area there are only 2 VHF TV signals left even though     we have stations 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 13 (plus a bunch of UHF).

     

     Bill

     

     On 6/13/13 6:18 AM, Christopher Cee       Stone wrote:

     

     [quote]Mark...       

       

       Jim Weir at RST Engineering has a dipole base station kit         that works very well for FM radio and VHF com. Â You can build it         to whatever center frequency suits you, typically 108-130 Mhz.         Â I have built a couple and they work very well. Â They do require         a Â lead-in of 50 ohm coax. Â from there you can use a splitter         for VHF com radio andÂ FM radio (use a balun to connect coax to         twin-lead).

       TV is another antenna as the VHF channels are centered around         75 Mhz.

       

         http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/base_station_antenna.html

       

       

       

       

       Chris Stone

       RV-8

       Newberg, OR

       

                     	  Quote: 	
		               

             

             At 06:38 AM 6/13/2013, you wrote:

              	  Quote: 	
		                 Bob,

               I was wondering if there is an antenna type that I can               install on the exterior of my hanger and wire it into the               hanger that will provide signal to my FM music radio TV,               and VHF handheld. I presently have antennas for each               internally mounted inside the hanger. Â They work fine               until I close the hanger door. Â If the outside hanger               antenna had a "repeater" inside I think it would work. Is               there such a device? Â I want to minimize the number of               holes I put in the hanger wall.

               TNX

               Mark Banus

             	
             

             Â  I presume you're willing to use only one service

             Â  at a time. I.e. you don't need to watch tv and

             Â  listen to the hand-held at the same time.

             

             Â  There are some effective, broadband antennas most

             Â  notable of which is called the 'discone'. One

             Â  example is offered here

             

             http://tinyurl.com/54fk

             

             Â  You can build these things pretty easily. It just

             Â  depends on how much your time is worth. If you're

             Â  inclined to hammer one out yourself, consider

             

             http://tinyurl.com/kc9ruge

             

             Â  The discone is not an efficient antenna but it's

             Â  performance over a broad range of frequencies is

             Â  the selling point. If your TV/FM/VHF signals are

             Â  not 'fringe' levels, the discone is a good option.

             

             Â  Bob . . .

             

             

             

           

	
     [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:27 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

At 10:02 AM 6/13/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  But since the digital TV conversion, most of the TV channels are now on UHF (even if they show up as "Channel 2" on your set) you need some antenna elements in the 500-800 MHz range too. At least in the Seattle/Tacoma area there are only 2 VHF TV signals left even though we have stations 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 13 (plus a bunch of UHF).

 

 Bill 	


   Interesting. I'd not kept up with those changes.

   In that case, I think the discone cut for a lower

   frequency on the order of 75 MHz is called for.



   That would capture the FM and aviation frequencies

   with some efficiency with pretty decent coverage

   in the upper reaches.



 

 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:34 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

Plan C . . .



As long as you don't want to use the antenna

for talking with your hand held, there's another

option for a broad spectrum receive only antenna.



http://tinyurl.com/kex8u4k





   Bob . . .

mbanus(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

Thanks All,

 

I think I will build a discone centered on 75MHZ.   If that doesn't work I'll try one of the commercial units. Just have to have music while I work 

 

Mark

 [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:19 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

At 06:50 AM 6/14/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks All,



I think I will build a discone centered on 75MHZ.   If that doesn't 

work I'll try one of the commercial units. Just have to have music 

while I work 



Mark


	


  Not 'centered' but cut so that lower edge is at 75 . . . or even

  90 Mhz.



  See:



http://www.changpuak.ch/electronics/calc_11.php



   This is still a pretty big antenna . . . 'legs'

   of cone nearly a meter long. Actually, if you

   shoot for 91 Mhz, the legs come out exactly

   3' long . . . which may be the handly stocking

   length for brass or aluminum tube from the store.



   Bob . . .

mbanus(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:47 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

You are right. 3' is a little large. I am trying to be discrete. 

Thanks

Mark

 

 [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:42 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

At 06:42 AM 6/15/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

You are right. 3' is a little large. I am trying to be discrete.

Thanks

Mark




	


   If the 'full size' discone is not an option,

   consider the active antenna I linked earlier

http://tinyurl.com/kex8u4k



   This antenna is a simple whisker on a box similar

   to a car antenna.



   Bob . . .

ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:08 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

BTW, Radio Shack carries a discone antenna:



http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103160

  Many years ago I put this up on our house for 2m ham radio operations and it worked well.



On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

  [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

   



 At 06:42 AM 6/15/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 You are right. 3' is a little large. I am trying to be discrete.

 Thanks

 Mark

 

 	
 

   If the 'full size' discone is not an option,

   consider the active antenna I linked earlier

 

 

 http://tinyurl.com/kex8u4k

 

 

 

   This antenna is a simple whisker on a box similar

   to a car antenna.

 

 

 

   Bob . . . 

 

 ====================================

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ====================================

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 



[b]

mbanus(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:19 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

Yes, the Ramsey AA7C looks as inconspicuous as I could get. I'll order one and give it an OPEVAL.  Thanks

Mark

 

 

 [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:21 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

At 07:18 AM 6/16/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Yes, the Ramsey AA7C looks as inconspicuous as I could get. I'll order one and give it an OPEVAL.  Thanks

 Mark

 	


   Okay.  Some further considerations for the utility of

   this product. It will come as a kit so assembly required.

   It's designed to offer GAIN which may not be useful in

   your situation.



   Your task is to get energy from a short whisker antenna

   (e-field probe) coupled into a low impedance feedline.

   I suspect that signal strengths OUTSIDE your hangar are

   adequate so adding gain brings some risks for overload

   from local strong signals. Is there a tower or unicom

   station on the field?



   The kit is for an INDOOR accessory designed to sit

   on a desk. It's BATTERY powered and designed to be

   locally controlled by means of front panel switches

   and knobs.



  http://tinyurl.com/lrrylbk



   Mounting this outside calls for hardening against

   the elements. Sealed plastic or aluminum box?



   The kit version has both HF and VHF/UHF capability

   and all you need is VHF/UHF. Further, the ECB is

   rather BIG for the small amount of electronics you

   want to exploit. Here's Van Roon's schematic

   trimmed down for VHF/UHF remote mounting. 



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

   It looks like you could move R5, R4, C4, C5 and

   C6 to the other end of the coax feedline. This would let

   you run 9v up to the amplifier on the same coax that

   brings the signals down.



   This circuit could be built on a very tiny board to be

   mounting inside a die-cast aluminum enclosure possibly

   sealed with RTV.



   There's only three components in the box on the roof.

   The 2SC2570 is a leaded plastic device

   

   The transistor, resistor and capacitor could probably

   be 'spider webbed' between two BNC connectors in the

   roof mounted box.



 

 

   Bob . . .

181d66a.jpg

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handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

Bob, - 



I am interested in this antenna too, but need the HF as one of my available stations is an HF signal.  Can the antenna be mounted outside and enclosure remain inside?  

M. Haught 

On Jun 16, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

[quote]  At 07:18 AM 6/16/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Yes, the Ramsey AA7C looks as inconspicuous as I could get. I'll order one and give it an OPEVAL.  Thanks

 Mark

 	


   Okay.  Some further considerations for the utility of

   this product. It will come as a kit so assembly required.

   It's designed to offer GAIN which may not be useful in

   your situation.



   Your task is to get energy from a short whisker antenna

   (e-field probe) coupled into a low impedance feedline.

   I suspect that signal strengths OUTSIDE your hangar are

   adequate so adding gain brings some risks for overload

   from local strong signals. Is there a tower or unicom

   station on the field?



   The kit is for an INDOOR accessory designed to sit

   on a desk. It's BATTERY powered and designed to be

   locally controlled by means of front panel switches

   and knobs.



  http://tinyurl.com/lrrylbk



   Mounting this outside calls for hardening against

   the elements. Sealed plastic or aluminum box?



   The kit version has both HF and VHF/UHF capability

   and all you need is VHF/UHF. Further, the ECB is

   rather BIG for the small amount of electronics you

   want to exploit. Here's Van Roon's schematic

   trimmed down for VHF/UHF remote mounting. 



 <181d66a.jpg>



 

   It looks like you could move R5, R4, C4, C5 and

   C6 to the other end of the coax feedline. This would let

   you run 9v up to the amplifier on the same coax that

   brings the signals down.



   This circuit could be built on a very tiny board to be

   mounting inside a die-cast aluminum enclosure possibly

   sealed with RTV.



   There's only three components in the box on the roof.

   The 2SC2570 is a leaded plastic device

   

   The transistor, resistor and capacitor could probably

   be 'spider webbed' between two BNC connectors in the

   roof mounted box.



 

 

   Bob . . .

  [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:16 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

At 10:47 AM 6/16/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob, - 



 I am interested in this antenna too, but need the HF as one of my available stations is an HF signal.  Can the antenna be mounted outside and enclosure remain inside?  



 M. Haught 	


   Sure. There are lots of HF active antenna products

   and DIY designs out there. Are you looking to build

   or buy one? What's your range of interest for frequencies?

   What is the nature of the proposed outside antenna

   and feedline?  



 

 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:36 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

I do not know even enough to talk intelligently about the subject!  I would like a single antenna to where I can improve TV reception, FM radio reception, and use as a receiver antenna for my hand held aircraft radio.  Only receive, not transmit.  



I have a "wiring closet" with the hangar wall immediate to that location.  I would run the coax out an up the wall to the antenna mounted at the edge of the roof, right straight up from the wiring closet, and house the enclosure in that closet.  Was looking at the Ramsey AA&C for that purpose, but with an externally mounted antenna.  Or is there a better alternative?  Oh, I live in a 60 x 60 metal hangar, and reception inside is pretty poor.  

M. Haught 

On Jun 16, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 10:47 AM 6/16/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob, - 



 I am interested in this antenna too, but need the HF as one of my available stations is an HF signal.  Can the antenna be mounted outside and enclosure remain inside?  



 M. Haught 	


   Sure. There are lots of HF active antenna products

   and DIY designs out there. Are you looking to build

   or buy one? What's your range of interest for frequencies?

   What is the nature of the proposed outside antenna

   and feedline?  



 

 

   Bob . . .     	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


  [quote][b]

billp(at)wwpc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:09 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

When had a Port-A-Port hangar in Oakland, CA I had a similar     problem. These are T hangars and the corrugated roof has about a 4"     overhang on the back edge. I punched a hole for a whip I cut to the     aircraft band for the scanner I used to listen to ATIS and Tower     frequencies and punched another hole and mounted a car radio antenna     for everything else. Since the holes were in the overhang area there     was never a problem with leaks. The coaxial from the antennas I just     brought in at a high spot in the corrugations. If you're in a     metropolitan area this should work. If you're out in the countryside     somewhere, you'll need a TV antenna pointed toward where the TV     transmitters are. 

     

     If you send me your airport ICAO code I'll tell you what you need     and where to point the antennas.

     

     Bill Putney

     Navion owner

     A&P/IA

     WB6RFW

     Chief Engineer - KPTZ FM

     Port Townsend, WA

      

     On 6/16/13 10:36 AM, H. Marvin Haught       wrote:

     

     [quote]I do not know even enough to talk intelligently about       the subject!  I would like a single antenna to where I can improve       TV reception, FM radio reception, and use as a receiver antenna       for my hand held aircraft radio.  Only receive, not transmit.         

       

       I have a "wiring closet" with the hangar wall immediate to         that location.  I would run the coax out an up the wall to the         antenna mounted at the edge of the roof, right straight up from         the wiring closet, and house the enclosure in that closet.  Was         looking at the Ramsey AA&C for that purpose, but with an         externally mounted antenna.  Or is there a better alternative?          Oh, I live in a 60 x 60 metal hangar, and reception inside is         pretty poor.  

       

       

       M. Haught 

                    On Jun 16, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III             wrote:

                       	  Quote: 	
		                              At 10:47 AM 6/16/2013, you wrote:

                	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,                 - 

                 

                 I am interested in this antenna too, but need the HF as                 one of my                 available stations is an HF signal.  Can the antenna be                 mounted                 outside and enclosure remain inside?  

                 

                 M. Haught 	
               

                 Sure. There are lots of HF active antenna products

                 and DIY designs out there. Are you looking to build

                 or buy one? What's your range of interest for               frequencies?

                 What is the nature of the proposed outside antenna

                 and feedline?  

               

               

                                

                     Bob . . .                                   	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
               

           

	
     [b]

billp(at)wwpc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: Hanger Antenna

On my hangar in Oakland I installed a screwdriver antenna (the one I     had was from  in the middle of the roof and ran the coax and control     wire down to the edge and under the High Sierra one I bought at HRO     but they're all about the same. Worked well with my ICOM IC-706.

     

     Bill Putney

     

     On 6/16/13 10:16 AM, Robert L.       Nuckolls, III wrote:

     

     [quote]       At 10:47 AM 6/16/2013, you wrote:

        	  Quote: 	
		  Bob, - 

         

         I am interested in this antenna too, but need the HF as one of         my         available stations is an HF signal.  Can the antenna be mounted         outside and enclosure remain inside?  

         

         M. Haught 	
       

         Sure. There are lots of HF active antenna products

         and DIY designs out there. Are you looking to build

         or buy one? What's your range of interest for frequencies?

         What is the nature of the proposed outside antenna

         and feedline?  

       

       

                

             Bob . . .                   	  Quote: 	
		  

	
       [b]

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