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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: Oil drain |
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HELP! ! ! ! ! !
I am trying to remove the oil drain from the sump on an O360. It was leaking and I needed to change it.
Problem is, IT's STUCK.
1) Started with an open end wrench (the old style drain won't let a box end get to the hex.)
that quickly stripped off the hex.
2) Went to vise grips. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded
in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller and round.
3) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the vise grips. Nothing.
4) Tried a pipe wrench. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded
in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller.
5) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the pipe wrench. Nothing.
---- each time I only managed to grind more off.
6) By now, it's mangled and thin.
7) Tried the vise grips again and the casing tore off leaving only about 1/4 inch at the top
with the valve stem sticking out.
Now what?
Gary
[quote][b]
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:15 am Post subject: Oil drain |
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Drill clean, out to "meat"
Use easy out
If able use impact wrench to "vibrate" while torquing
When that fails;)
Step drill out to center then drill with properly sized bit to top of threads
Use Thread Cutter Tap of proper size to clean out
On Jul 6, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
HELP! ! ! ! ! !
I am trying to remove the oil drain from the sump on an O360. It was leaking and I needed to change it.
Problem is, IT's STUCK.
1) Started with an open end wrench (the old style drain won't let a box end get to the hex.)
that quickly stripped off the hex.
2) Went to vise grips. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded
in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller and round.
3) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the vise grips. Nothing.
4) Tried a pipe wrench. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded
in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller.
5) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the pipe wrench. Nothing.
---- each time I only managed to grind more off.
6) By now, it's mangled and thin.
7) Tried the vise grips again and the casing tore off leaving only about 1/4 inch at the top
with the valve stem sticking out.
Now what?
Gary
[quote]
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t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
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cs.com
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matronics.com/contribution
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thornytoo1(at)hughes.net
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:17 am Post subject: Oil drain |
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Can you drill it out, let it drain, then use an easy-out to remove it?
[quote][b]
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: Oil drain |
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Hi Gary:
I know your problem well. Been there - Done that! Within the body of your email I inserted my procedures and suggestions.
Barry
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HELP! ! ! ! ! !
I am trying to remove the oil drain from the sump on an O360. It was leaking and I needed to change it.
Problem is, IT's STUCK.
1) Started with an open end wrench (the old style drain won't let a box end get to the hex.) that quickly stripped off the hex.
|
[Barry] - You are correct the open end wrench is NOT the way to go especially when dealing with dissimilar metals and the one you wish to remove is SOFTER (Brass) than the one it is threaded into. I would have tried just like you - Just a little - Until the first hex flat became stripped and then called the owner and explained the TIME ($$$) involved to TRY to remove the OLD valve and then suggested we CUT OFF THE HEAD OF THE VALVE AND USE THE BOX END OF THE WRENCH. Much less time and much less aggravation and of course much LE$$!
| Quote: | 2) Went to vise grips. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller and round.
|
[Barry] - OUCH! Well that is to be expected. 
| Quote: | 3) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the vise grips. Nothing.
|
[Barry] - Gary, this is not the approach for this particular job. The reason why is twofold - Physics and Metallurgy.
PHYSICS - When you heat something to remove it the rule is: Heat the OUTSIDE PART. You want the OUTSIDE part to EXPAND from the heat which should loosen its grip on the inside part - - - WHICH you attempt to keep much cooler. Basic rule for most materials is: Heat expands while Cold contracts. Heating the inside piece only expands it and makes it hold stronger.
METALLURGY - NON-FERROUS metals HARDEN when heated and left to cool SLOWLY. To SOFTEN a non-ferrous metal the procedure is to heat it (indirectly) and then quench it in oil. That is the proper way, but even improper heating and cooling will harden the metal.
There is a small advantage in what you did - It did make the brass harder so it stood up to the tools a little bit better.
| Quote: | 4) Tried a pipe wrench. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller.
|
[Barry] - Yeow-ouch!
| Quote: | 5) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the pipe wrench. Nothing. ---- each time I only managed to grind more off.
|
[Barry] - OK, so we now know that does not work.
| Quote: | 6) By now, it's mangled and thin.
|
| Quote: | 7) Tried the vise grips again and the casing tore off leaving only about 1/4 inch at the top with the valve stem sticking out.
Now what?
|
[Barry] - Since there is nothing worthwhile of the part to work with you now have to resort to major surgery. It is really very simple and works very well.
1 - Cut off whatever remains of the external part of the valve.
2 - By HAND - No power tools - Get a hacksaw to fit into the valve threaded area.
3 - Cut a vertical cut, Lengthwise - across the threads into the valve stem. You should do this in TWO (2) places 180 Deg opposite each other (sometimes you may need a third cut). Cut until you just approach or see the tip is the threads of the oil sump.
4 - Get a SMALL sharp edge COLD CHISEL and a 16 oz hammer (Bigger is NOT better) all you want to do is catch the edge of the valve and have it collapse IN on itself. Work starting at the saw cuts, as you want them to break off and inward. The piece or pieces will come out with a little help from a pointy nose vice grips.
5 - The only issue left is to remove all the saw cuttings from inside the oil sump.
You should be able to do that with a well greased finger - Sort of like a Proctology Exam.
6 - O! To make removal easier the next time - AND this is totally against FAA regs - Put a wrapping of Tape Doap on the valve threads, three (3) threads back from the insertion end.
Best of luck,
Barry
[quote]
Gary
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: Oil drain |
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Barry's procedure sounds best
On Jul 6, 2013, at 8:15 AM, 923TE <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)> wrote:
Drill clean, out to "meat"
Use easy out
If able use impact wrench to "vibrate" while torquing
When that fails;)
Step drill out to center then drill with properly sized bit to top of threads
Use Thread Cutter Tap of proper size to clean out
On Jul 6, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
HELP! ! ! ! ! !
I am trying to remove the oil drain from the sump on an O360. It was leaking and I needed to change it.
Problem is, IT's STUCK.
1) Started with an open end wrench (the old style drain won't let a box end get to the hex.)
that quickly stripped off the hex.
2) Went to vise grips. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded
in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller and round.
3) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the vise grips. Nothing.
4) Tried a pipe wrench. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded
in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller.
5) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the pipe wrench. Nothing.
---- each time I only managed to grind more off.
6) By now, it's mangled and thin.
7) Tried the vise grips again and the casing tore off leaving only about 1/4 inch at the top
with the valve stem sticking out.
Now what?
Gary
[quote]
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:18 am Post subject: Oil drain |
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Thanks to all of you.
If I can get the plunger valve drain middle part thingy out of the way, I'll try cutting it. I can see many hours on this one.
Gary
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: Oil drain
Hi Gary:
I know your problem well. Been there - Done that! Within the body of your email I inserted my procedures and suggestions.
Barry
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HELP! ! ! ! ! !
I am trying to remove the oil drain from the sump on an O360. It was leaking and I needed to change it.
Problem is, IT's STUCK.
1) Started with an open end wrench (the old style drain won't let a box end get to the hex.) that quickly stripped off the hex.
|
[Barry] - You are correct the open end wrench is NOT the way to go especially when dealing with dissimilar metals and the one you wish to remove is SOFTER (Brass) than the one it is threaded into. I would have tried just like you - Just a little - Until the first hex flat became stripped and then called the owner and explained the TIME ($$$) involved to TRY to remove the OLD valve and then suggested we CUT OFF THE HEAD OF THE VALVE AND USE THE BOX END OF THE WRENCH. Much less time and much less aggravation and of course much LE$$!
| Quote: | 2) Went to vise grips. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller and round.
|
[Barry] - OUCH! Well that is to be expected.
| Quote: | 3) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the vise grips. Nothing.
|
[Barry] - Gary, this is not the approach for this particular job. The reason why is twofold - Physics and Metallurgy.
PHYSICS - When you heat something to remove it the rule is: Heat the OUTSIDE PART. You want the OUTSIDE part to EXPAND from the heat which should loosen its grip on the inside part - - - WHICH you attempt to keep much cooler. Basic rule for most materials is: Heat expands while Cold contracts. Heating the inside piece only expands it and makes it hold stronger.
METALLURGY - NON-FERROUS metals HARDEN when heated and left to cool SLOWLY. To SOFTEN a non-ferrous metal the procedure is to heat it (indirectly) and then quench it in oil. That is the proper way, but even improper heating and cooling will harden the metal.
There is a small advantage in what you did - It did make the brass harder so it stood up to the tools a little bit better.
| Quote: | 4) Tried a pipe wrench. After trying increasingly tighter clamping forces, I only succeeded in rounding (grinding) away the shape until it was smaller.
|
[Barry] - Yeow-ouch!
| Quote: | 5) Tried heating it with a MAPP torch until it glowed. Then the pipe wrench. Nothing. ---- each time I only managed to grind more off.
|
[Barry] - OK, so we now know that does not work.
| Quote: | 6) By now, it's mangled and thin.
|
| Quote: | 7) Tried the vise grips again and the casing tore off leaving only about 1/4 inch at the top with the valve stem sticking out.
Now what?
|
[Barry] - Since there is nothing worthwhile of the part to work with you now have to resort to major surgery. It is really very simple and works very well.
1 - Cut off whatever remains of the external part of the valve.
2 - By HAND - No power tools - Get a hacksaw to fit into the valve threaded area.
3 - Cut a vertical cut, Lengthwise - across the threads into the valve stem. You should do this in TWO (2) places 180 Deg opposite each other (sometimes you may need a third cut). Cut until you just approach or see the tip is the threads of the oil sump.
4 - Get a SMALL sharp edge COLD CHISEL and a 16 oz hammer (Bigger is NOT better) all you want to do is catch the edge of the valve and have it collapse IN on itself. Work starting at the saw cuts, as you want them to break off and inward. The piece or pieces will come out with a little help from a pointy nose vice grips.
5 - The only issue left is to remove all the saw cuttings from inside the oil sump.
You should be able to do that with a well greased finger - Sort of like a Proctology Exam.
6 - O! To make removal easier the next time - AND this is totally against FAA regs - Put a wrapping of Tape Doap on the valve threads, three (3) threads back from the insertion end.
Best of luck,
Barry
[quote]
Gary
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
http://www.matronics.com/low" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.= --> [b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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