 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr
Guest
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:03 am Post subject: IFR RVs in the US |
 |
|
Hello to all,
I’ve been lurking on the sidelines of this list and have contributed at times during the build time of my RV8 – from France. I have finished the 8 which has been providing me with more joy than I anticipated. What a great airplane.
All would be perfect except that the French and most Europeans do not allow home builts to fly IFR. A few of the RV owners being military and/or professional pilots with full IFR qualifications, with planes very well equipped avionics wise, would like to change this. I have thus taken it upon myself within the context of our French RV builder group (www.vansclubdefrance.fr) to explore the possibility of having the rules changed, at least within the context of French skies.
Since the US FAA does allow experimental built airplanes to fly IFR in the US, my question to the list is : what are the criteria which would allow an RV to be flown IFR by a duly qualified IFR pilot ? Questions which come to mind are :
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Does the engine have to be certified as opposed to a non certified such as Mattituck, Superior, Barret… ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>What about maintenance – by certified mechanic or by owner under a certain conditions ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Minimum avionics : ex. two radios, VORs, DME, other ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Any steam gages ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Does the owner who does his own maintenance have to acquire specific qualifications ?
Thanks,
Michèle Delsol
RV8 – F-PDSL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: IFR RVs in the US |
|
|
In the US we clarify the ability to IFR in each aircraft's operating limitations. These operating limitations are issued to the aircraft at the time of certification. We, the FAA, use a very generic sentence, i.e, the sentence reads "Unless appropriately equipped for night and/or IFR flight in accordance with 14 CFR 91.205, this aircraft is restricted to day VFR."
So it is up to the pilot to make sure the aircraft is equipped with all the necessry instruments and avionics, and make sure that all the needed inspections are completed. Those inspections would include the yearly condition inspeciton, the 24 month trnasponder/encoder inspection, and a current IFR pitot/static inspection. From an airplane side that is it.
We do not require anything special for the engine, and even the avionics do not have to be approved (but the must pass inspection). And your panel could be all glass if you like provided all the instruments called out in 91.205 are there.
The pilot must have an instrument airplane rating and be current but that is all. Nothing special for operation of an amateur-built airplane.
I hope this helps.
Mike Robertson
RV-6, RV-8, RV-9 builder
FAA Inspector
From: mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: IFR RVs in the US
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:04:17 +0200
Hello to all,
I’ve been lurking on the sidelines of this list and have contributed at times during the build time of my RV8 – from France. I have finished the 8 which has been providing me with more joy than I anticipated. What a great airplane.
All would be perfect except that the French and most Europeans do not allow home builts to fly IFR. A few of the RV owners being military and/or professional pilots with full IFR qualifications, with planes very well equipped avionics wise, would like to change this. I have thus taken it upon myself within the context of our French RV builder group (www.vansclubdefrance.fr) to explore the possibility of having the rules changed, at least within the context of French skies.
Since the US FAA does allow experimental built airplanes to fly IFR in the US, my question to the list is : what are the criteria which would allow an RV to be flown IFR by a duly qualified IFR pilot ? Questions which come to mind are :
· Does the engine have to be certified as opposed to a non certified such as Mattituck, Superior, Barret… ?
· What about maintenance – by certified mechanic or by owner under a certain conditions ?
· Minimum avionics : ex. two radios, VORs, DME, other ?
· Any steam gages ?
· Does the owner who does his own maintenance have to acquire specific qualifications ?
Thanks,
Michèle Delsol
RV8 – F-PDSL
[quote]
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:19 am Post subject: IFR RVs in the US |
|
|
I knew I’d get knowledgeable responses from the list – you guys are great. Such good stuff, thanks. Gives me the ammo to approach the French authorities – they really treat us like children – no trust. They want us to have just about everything certified : engine and everything that goes on one, all avionics, gages, why not switches, breakers, wiring… with the appropriate form One’s on each item. Maintenance in a certified shop and the paper work to go along... Result – there are no Night or IFR home builts in France – there is one exception which proves the rule.
Thanks – i’ll work with the material/info you sent and would get back off line if I need clarifications.
Michèle
De : owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Michele Delsol
Envoyé : lundi 24 juin 2013 22:04
À : rv-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : IFR RVs in the US
Hello to all,
I’ve been lurking on the sidelines of this list and have contributed at times during the build time of my RV8 – from France. I have finished the 8 which has been providing me with more joy than I anticipated. What a great airplane.
All would be perfect except that the French and most Europeans do not allow home builts to fly IFR. A few of the RV owners being military and/or professional pilots with full IFR qualifications, with planes very well equipped avionics wise, would like to change this. I have thus taken it upon myself within the context of our French RV builder group (www.vansclubdefrance.fr) to explore the possibility of having the rules changed, at least within the context of French skies.
Since the US FAA does allow experimental built airplanes to fly IFR in the US, my question to the list is : what are the criteria which would allow an RV to be flown IFR by a duly qualified IFR pilot ? Questions which come to mind are :
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Does the engine have to be certified as opposed to a non certified such as Mattituck, Superior, Barret… ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>What about maintenance – by certified mechanic or by owner under a certain conditions ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Minimum avionics : ex. two radios, VORs, DME, other ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Any steam gages ?
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Does the owner who does his own maintenance have to acquire specific qualifications ?
Thanks,
Michèle Delsol
RV8 – F-PDSL
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wdleonard(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:20 am Post subject: IFR RVs in the US |
|
|
Michele,
To paraphrase the excellent responses you have already received I offer some clarification because you may not be familiar with the rest of the rules for our experimentals:
Our instrument and avionics requirements are the same as those for certified aircraft except that the instruments themselves do not necessarily have to be certified, just meet the TSO performance requirements. In practice that usually means that the Transponder and any GPS or VOR navigation systems are TSO certified and the other instruments are quality panel-mount items. Significantly, that means that in order to fly en-route with GPS guidance, the GPS needs to be IFR certified and to fly GPS approaches the unit must be WAAS approach certified.
The bi-annual static system check and transponder test have to be done by a certified shop, but otherwise engine and air frame work can be done by either a certified shop or by the builder who has the repairman certificate, but not necessarily by just the current owner. The annual condition inspection much be current.
The engine/prop need not be certified. In fact, I fly IFR with my Wankel engine out of a Mazda RX-7.
No IFR during the initial test phase or anytime the aircraft is temporarily returned to 'Test Phase' because of a major modification.
Requirements for the pilot are the same as if you were flying a certified aircraft, including medical.
Just like with VFR flight in an experimental, we cannot carry passengers or cargo for hire even if the pilot has a commercial rating. Other forms of commercial compensation seem to have relaxed a little (more accurately, they have been more clearly defined in order to improve aviation safety). For example you can be compensated to fly in an airshow, with special permission you can provide type-specific transition training for compensation. You can be paid for pictures taken from your aircraft, but not be paid as a hired photographer or sky writer. You can fly to a business event and deduct the costs from your income, even carry passengers IFR incidental to that trip who share some of the direct costs but the pilot has to pay an equal share. We may not rent the aircraft, but we can lend it to someone if the owner is not paid. We cannot do banner tow or drop skydivers even if it is unpaid.
All in all I feel it is a very fair and safe system. While experimentals here have not yet shown themselves to be as safe as certified aircraft, I would venture to bet that accidents under IFR are no higher than with certified aircraft. If you can find that statistic someplace I think it could greatly help your cause.
Good luck! I am sure that I speak for my US experimental aviation brothers and sisters when I say that we would love to see you succeed. In fact, if you contact the EAA they may be able to offer some advise. Our EAA has an excellent rapport with the FAA. Do you have a similar organization in France?
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Michele Delsol <mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr (mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I knew I’d get knowledgeable responses from the list – you guys are great. Such good stuff, thanks. Gives me the ammo to approach the French authorities – they really treat us like children – no trust. They want us to have just about everything certified : engine and everything that goes on one, all avionics, gages, why not switches, breakers, wiring… with the appropriate form One’s on each item. Maintenance in a certified shop and the paper work to go along... Result – there are no Night or IFR home builts in France – there is one exception which proves the rule.
Thanks – i’ll work with the material/info you sent and would get back off line if I need clarifications.
Michèle
De : owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] De la part de Michele Delsol
Envoyé : lundi 24 juin 2013 22:04
À : rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Objet : IFR RVs in the US
Hello to all,
I’ve been lurking on the sidelines of this list and have contributed at times during the build time of my RV8 – from France. I have finished the 8 which has been providing me with more joy than I anticipated. What a great airplane.
All would be perfect except that the French and most Europeans do not allow home builts to fly IFR. A few of the RV owners being military and/or professional pilots with full IFR qualifications, with planes very well equipped avionics wise, would like to change this. I have thus taken it upon myself within the context of our French RV builder group (www.vansclubdefrance.fr) to explore the possibility of having the rules changed, at least within the context of French skies.
Since the US FAA does allow experimental built airplanes to fly IFR in the US, my question to the list is : what are the criteria which would allow an RV to be flown IFR by a duly qualified IFR pilot ? Questions which come to mind are :
· Does the engine have to be certified as opposed to a non certified such as Mattituck, Superior, Barret… ?
· What about maintenance – by certified mechanic or by owner under a certain conditions ?
· Minimum avionics : ex. two radios, VORs, DME, other ?
· Any steam gages ?
· Does the owner who does his own maintenance have to acquire specific qualifications ?
Thanks,
Michèle Delsol
RV8 – F-PDSL
012 34567 89
0
|
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wdleonard(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: IFR RVs in the US |
|
|
Oh, I forgot to add this Excellent link to the EAA's comments on equiping an experimental for IFR flight.
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/Equipping%20a%20Homebuilt%20for%20IFR%20operations.html
Rodoc
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 12:19 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com (wdleonard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Michele,
To paraphrase the excellent responses you have already received I offer some clarification because you may not be familiar with the rest of the rules for our experimentals:
Our instrument and avionics requirements are the same as those for certified aircraft except that the instruments themselves do not necessarily have to be certified, just meet the TSO performance requirements. In practice that usually means that the Transponder and any GPS or VOR navigation systems are TSO certified and the other instruments are quality panel-mount items. Significantly, that means that in order to fly en-route with GPS guidance, the GPS needs to be IFR certified and to fly GPS approaches the unit must be WAAS approach certified.
The bi-annual static system check and transponder test have to be done by a certified shop, but otherwise engine and air frame work can be done by either a certified shop or by the builder who has the repairman certificate, but not necessarily by just the current owner. The annual condition inspection much be current.
The engine/prop need not be certified. In fact, I fly IFR with my Wankel engine out of a Mazda RX-7.
No IFR during the initial test phase or anytime the aircraft is temporarily returned to 'Test Phase' because of a major modification.
Requirements for the pilot are the same as if you were flying a certified aircraft, including medical.
Just like with VFR flight in an experimental, we cannot carry passengers or cargo for hire even if the pilot has a commercial rating. Other forms of commercial compensation seem to have relaxed a little (more accurately, they have been more clearly defined in order to improve aviation safety). For example you can be compensated to fly in an airshow, with special permission you can provide type-specific transition training for compensation. You can be paid for pictures taken from your aircraft, but not be paid as a hired photographer or sky writer. You can fly to a business event and deduct the costs from your income, even carry passengers IFR incidental to that trip who share some of the direct costs but the pilot has to pay an equal share. We may not rent the aircraft, but we can lend it to someone if the owner is not paid. We cannot do banner tow or drop skydivers even if it is unpaid.
All in all I feel it is a very fair and safe system. While experimentals here have not yet shown themselves to be as safe as certified aircraft, I would venture to bet that accidents under IFR are no higher than with certified aircraft. If you can find that statistic someplace I think it could greatly help your cause.
Good luck! I am sure that I speak for my US experimental aviation brothers and sisters when I say that we would love to see you succeed. In fact, if you contact the EAA they may be able to offer some advise. Our EAA has an excellent rapport with the FAA. Do you have a similar organization in France?
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Michele Delsol <mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr (mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I knew I’d get knowledgeable responses from the list – you guys are great. Such good stuff, thanks. Gives me the ammo to approach the French authorities – they really treat us like children – no trust. They want us to have just about everything certified : engine and everything that goes on one, all avionics, gages, why not switches, breakers, wiring… with the appropriate form One’s on each item. Maintenance in a certified shop and the paper work to go along... Result – there are no Night or IFR home builts in France – there is one exception which proves the rule.
Thanks – i’ll work with the material/info you sent and would get back off line if I need clarifications.
Michèle
De : owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] De la part de Michele Delsol
Envoyé : lundi 24 juin 2013 22:04
À : rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Objet : IFR RVs in the US
Hello to all,
I’ve been lurking on the sidelines of this list and have contributed at times during the build time of my RV8 – from France. I have finished the 8 which has been providing me with more joy than I anticipated. What a great airplane.
All would be perfect except that the French and most Europeans do not allow home builts to fly IFR. A few of the RV owners being military and/or professional pilots with full IFR qualifications, with planes very well equipped avionics wise, would like to change this. I have thus taken it upon myself within the context of our French RV builder group (www.vansclubdefrance.fr) to explore the possibility of having the rules changed, at least within the context of French skies.
Since the US FAA does allow experimental built airplanes to fly IFR in the US, my question to the list is : what are the criteria which would allow an RV to be flown IFR by a duly qualified IFR pilot ? Questions which come to mind are :
· Does the engine have to be certified as opposed to a non certified such as Mattituck, Superior, Barret… ?
· What about maintenance – by certified mechanic or by owner under a certain conditions ?
· Minimum avionics : ex. two radios, VORs, DME, other ?
· Any steam gages ?
· Does the owner who does his own maintenance have to acquire specific qualifications ?
Thanks,
Michèle Delsol
RV8 – F-PDSL
012 34567 89
0
|
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
|
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:46 am Post subject: IFR RVs in the US |
|
|
Thanks David, gives me a lot to ponder on and ammo to build a strategy.
Judging by what is done in the US there is no fundamental reason except historical events to restrain us from flying IFR with our experimental airplanes within European skies.
Regards,
Michèle
De : owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de David Leonard
Envoyé : mercredi 3 juillet 2013 21:23
À : rv-list
Objet : Re: IFR RVs in the US
Oh, I forgot to add this Excellent link to the EAA's comments on equiping an experimental for IFR flight.
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/Equipping%20a%20Homebuilt%20for%20IFR%20operations.html
Rodoc
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 12:19 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com (wdleonard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Michele,
To paraphrase the excellent responses you have already received I offer some clarification because you may not be familiar with the rest of the rules for our experimentals:
Our instrument and avionics requirements are the same as those for certified aircraft except that the instruments themselves do not necessarily have to be certified, just meet the TSO performance requirements. In practice that usually means that the Transponder and any GPS or VOR navigation systems are TSO certified and the other instruments are quality panel-mount items. Significantly, that means that in order to fly en-route with GPS guidance, the GPS needs to be IFR certified and to fly GPS approaches the unit must be WAAS approach certified.
The bi-annual static system check and transponder test have to be done by a certified shop, but otherwise engine and air frame work can be done by either a certified shop or by the builder who has the repairman certificate, but not necessarily by just the current owner. The annual condition inspection much be current.
The engine/prop need not be certified. In fact, I fly IFR with my Wankel engine out of a Mazda RX-7.
No IFR during the initial test phase or anytime the aircraft is temporarily returned to 'Test Phase' because of a major modification.
Requirements for the pilot are the same as if you were flying a certified aircraft, including medical.
Just like with VFR flight in an experimental, we cannot carry passengers or cargo for hire even if the pilot has a commercial rating. Other forms of commercial compensation seem to have relaxed a little (more accurately, they have been more clearly defined in order to improve aviation safety). For example you can be compensated to fly in an airshow, with special permission you can provide type-specific transition training for compensation. You can be paid for pictures taken from your aircraft, but not be paid as a hired photographer or sky writer. You can fly to a business event and deduct the costs from your income, even carry passengers IFR incidental to that trip who share some of the direct costs but the pilot has to pay an equal share. We may not rent the aircraft, but we can lend it to someone if the owner is not paid. We cannot do banner tow or drop skydivers even if it is unpaid.
All in all I feel it is a very fair and safe system. While experimentals here have not yet shown themselves to be as safe as certified aircraft, I would venture to bet that accidents under IFR are no higher than with certified aircraft. If you can find that statistic someplace I think it could greatly help your cause.
Good luck! I am sure that I speak for my US experimental aviation brothers and sisters when I say that we would love to see you succeed. In fact, if you contact the EAA they may be able to offer some advise. Our EAA has an excellent rapport with the FAA. Do you have a similar organization in France?
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Michele Delsol <mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr (mdelsol(at)md-dsl.fr)> wrote:
I knew I’d get knowledgeable responses from the list – you guys are great. Such good stuff, thanks. Gives me the ammo to approach the French authorities – they really treat us like children – no trust. They want us to have just about everything certified : engine and everything that goes on one, all avionics, gages, why not switches, breakers, wiring… with the appropriate form One’s on each item. Maintenance in a certified shop and the paper work to go along... Result – there are no Night or IFR home builts in France – there is one exception which proves the rule.
Thanks – i’ll work with the material/info you sent and would get back off line if I need clarifications.
Michèle
De : owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] De la part de Michele Delsol
Envoyé : lundi 24 juin 2013 22:04
À : rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Objet : IFR RVs in the US
Hello to all,
I’ve been lurking on the sidelines of this list and have contributed at times during the build time of my RV8 – from France. I have finished the 8 which has been providing me with more joy than I anticipated. What a great airplane.
All would be perfect except that the French and most Europeans do not allow home builts to fly IFR. A few of the RV owners being military and/or professional pilots with full IFR qualifications, with planes very well equipped avionics wise, would like to change this. I have thus taken it upon myself within the context of our French RV builder group (www.vansclubdefrance.fr) to explore the possibility of having the rules changed, at least within the context of French skies.
Since the US FAA does allow experimental built airplanes to fly IFR in the US, my question to the list is : what are the criteria which would allow an RV to be flown IFR by a duly qualified IFR pilot ? Questions which come to mind are :
· Does the engine have to be certified as opposed to a non certified such as Mattituck, Superior, Barret… ?
· What about maintenance – by certified mechanic or by owner under a certain conditions ?
· Minimum avionics : ex. two radios, VORs, DME, other ?
· Any steam gages ?
· Does the owner who does his own maintenance have to acquire specific qualifications ?
Thanks,
Michèle Delsol
RV8 – F-PDSL
01
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
23456789012345678901
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
