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Airspeed and ATP

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VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: Airspeed and ATP

Hello,

            Taken in order, two points:

(1) "From: "richard  titsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>

Subject: RE: Re: IFR Requirements (required vs. good to 

have)

One small pet peeve of mine - the 196 shows GROUND SPEED (not airspeed).  A 

simple point - but add some tailwind and/or density altitude and the 

differences can be disastrous - especially in an emergency when mental

workload is high.  Do yourself a favor and repeat it ten times so you don't

forget.  It shows ground speed not IAS."

.......Amen to that - AND that goes for confusing 'heading' for 'track made 

good' as well.



(2)  I see some increasing use of the term 'ATP' to perhaps designate the 

usefulness of advice from an airline pilot. That is a topic ripe for 

fisticuffs since two of them stalled and killed themselves in a trainer I 

helped build. Most "ATPs" will admit that their airline experience is great 

for weather, communications and international trade, but useless in 

operating little one-seaters in the countryside. I think we would all be 

surprised at the number of ATPs reading this, so advice is as you find it, 

not how it's presented.



Ferg Kyle

Europa A064 914 Classic

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: Airspeed and ATP

At 10:09 AM 6/14/2006 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hello,

             Taken in order, two points:

(1) "From: "richard  titsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>

Subject: RE: Re: IFR Requirements (required vs. good to

have)

One small pet peeve of mine - the 196 shows GROUND SPEED (not airspeed).  A

simple point - but add some tailwind and/or density altitude and the

differences can be disastrous - especially in an emergency when mental

workload is high.  Do yourself a favor and repeat it ten times so you don't

forget.  It shows ground speed not IAS."


	


    Yeah, GPS is for global issues, i.e. navigation. The sensing

    and display of air flow over wings and controls is for

    aviating and gps receivers are remarkably ignorant of airflow.

 	  Quote: 	
		  ........Amen to that - AND that goes for confusing 'heading' for 'track made

good' as well.


	


    This is an excellent example of the pollution of meaning when

    two mini-cultures come together. The roots of many features in

    aviation come from the marine world where the supporting medium

    and external forces acting on the vehicle were currents within

    fluids - water and air instead of just air. In both boats and airplanes

    the vehicle's path is seldom defined by the direction in which

    the vehicle is pointed, hence a need to separate heading (pointing)

    course (direction of travel) and track (path over the surface of

    the earth).



    When the folks building GPS receivers for the world market really

    began to take off, the vast majority of their customers were

    going to be operating over a non-fluid surface were course and

    heading were tied together due to lack of drift. The general

    public was more likely to understand and latch on to a word like

    'heading' (that's where I want to go) as opposed to 'course'

    (what . . . are we playing golf?) so the three digits that

    quantified direction of travel got labeled heading. Where they

    really blew it was when they described the course vector to your

    next way point as "bearing".



    Our water-borne brothers defined bearing as a vector referenced

    from heading. I.e., a change in heading from 30 degrees to 75

    degrees was to point the vehicle at some location with a bearing

    of 45 degrees to the right of present heading. This says nothing

    about course since a change of heading by 45 degrees may not

    result in a course change of 45 degrees. The drift equation

    may calculate a course change other than 45 degrees when heading,

    wind and currents were considered together.



 	  Quote: 	
		  (2)  I see some increasing use of the term 'ATP' to perhaps designate the

usefulness of advice from an airline pilot. That is a topic ripe for

fisticuffs since two of them stalled and killed themselves in a trainer I

helped build. Most "ATPs" will admit that their airline experience is great

for weather, communications and international trade, but useless in

operating little one-seaters in the countryside. I think we would all be

surprised at the number of ATPs reading this, so advice is as you find it,

not how it's presented.


	


    You betcha! And it happens in every venue when the scale, complexity

    and environment spread over a wide range of missions. Rules-of-the-road,

    operating techniques and skills for operating a VW on a trip to

    the store for bread are widely separated from those governing the

    movement of a large piece of machinery over the highways on a 50-

    wheeled tractor-trailer. The physics for both situations are

    identical . . . simple-ideas that are inviolate. But the manner

    in which they are stacked produces systems where the drivers

    of each would need intensive re-orientation should their

    respective skills and experience be limited to only one of the

    situations. Even when a driver has extensive skill and experience

    in both, there's a little re-training event that happens when

    making a transition from one vehicle to the other. For example,

    I'm always taken with the change of focus and profound changes

    of environment as I pull onto the highway from the airport after

    having just spent hours concentrating on the operation of the airplane.



    Bob . . .

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