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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:06 am Post subject: Electric System architecture |
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At 03:34 PM 10/3/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob & Carlos,
What a great, and insightful, exchange of information and facts.
Clear, concise, and easily readable. |
Since Carlos has a Vertical Power product in his
airplane, this won't be a design study starting
from a clean piece of paper but discussions for
integrating accessories around the Vertical Power
architecture can still be shared.
I'm contemplating an article for KitPlanes that
will describe the clean piece of paper approach
to system architecture in an OBAM aircraft.
This is a pretty strange idea for most pilots.
The vast majority of OBAM aircraft emulate the
architectures of TC aircraft. At the same time,
TC aircraft are very cookie-cutter like in their
design and manufacture.
It's a whole new idea to flip through the z-figures
(or a Vertical Power catalog) and contemplate the
opportunities traded off with personal design goals.
Too many builders have their battery, alternator and
switches already attached to the airplane before
they get serious about how they'll all work with
each other to meet design goals not yet formalized.
Getting the cart so far in front of the horse
is not a high risk activity but it does limit
opportunities to have a system that the builder
understands because it's designed it to a goal
as opposed to a collection of cherry-picked ideas
thrown into a basket before the best possible
recipe for success is discovered.
I'll try to bring some of the thought processes
proven useful in TC aviation for decades to what
has become the real leading edge in light aircraft
design and fabrication. The ideal evolution of
a project has the recipe 98% defined before
the first hole is drilled.
Not a really big deal . . . most electrical bad days
in the cockpit are the product of poor craftsmanship
and/or maintenance as opposed to selection of
components and architecture. Very rarely do we
hear of an instance where architecture was the
driving force for a bad day in the airplane.
I'm still waiting for permission to share the
data from one such case that is now settled.
The folks who paid my exorbitant fees to
analyze the event own the work product.
I hope to have some videos and other documents
to share.
In any event, one does not have to 'bake somebody
else's cookies' to avoid serious error. That's what
we do here on the List. Carlos is putting the
frosting and chocolate sprinkles on a recipe
with a proven track record so our imaginings are
already bounded . . . and that's okay.
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:44 am Post subject: Electric System architecture |
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Bob
Please don't be demotivated by the VP-X word...
That box is not much more than an encapsulated Buss, with some electronic
features allowing things to be seen in a screen (instead of V & A indicators
and a bunch of colored lights of an annunciator panel) .. 
I still have to decide about the architecture ... batteries, alternators,
power source ... protection
Carlos
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Enviada: 3 de outubro de 2013 21:22
Para: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: Re: RE: Electric System architecture (was
Charging the Aux Battery)
--> <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
| Quote: |
Do any of these accessories feature built in
back up batteries and/or connections brought
out for dual power sourcing?
Yes, the EFIS will be dual power sourcing.
I am using a VP-X Pro box.
|
Oopa . . . okay, there's not much I can do for
you in terms of architecture . . . that's pretty
much carved in stone.
We can certainly continue to discuss application
and suitability of various parts, but I'm not
sure there's much I can contribute for architecture
decisions that are not pre-determined out of the
box.
Bob . . .
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: Electric System architecture |
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|
Bob, Your first two articles for Kitplanes were just first rate. I will look forward to the architecture article.The people who produce Kitplanes continue to amaze me. I may not be able to appreciate every article, but I never fail to read it cover to cover.
Wish I could say the same for the EAA mag. Once I get past Mike Busch's monthly contribution, I'm pretty much done. Perhaps someone should make the suggestion to EAA that they offer members the option of Kitplanes instead of Sport Aviation. SA is the better coffee table magazine, but Kitplanes is the one that goes to the shop.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 03:34 PM 10/3/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob & Carlos,
What a great, and insightful, exchange of information and facts.
Clear, concise, and easily readable. |
Since Carlos has a Vertical Power product in his
airplane, this won't be a design study starting
from a clean piece of paper but discussions for
integrating accessories around the Vertical Power
architecture can still be shared.
I'm contemplating an article for KitPlanes that
will describe the clean piece of paper approach
to system architecture in an OBAM aircraft.
This is a pretty strange idea for most pilots.
The vast majority of OBAM aircraft emulate the
architectures of TC aircraft. At the same time,
TC aircraft are very cookie-cutter like in their
design and manufacture.
It's a whole new idea to flip through the z-figures
(or a Vertical Power catalog) and contemplate the
opportunities traded off with personal design goals.
Too many builders have their battery, alternator and
switches already attached to the airplane before
they get serious about how they'll all work with
each other to meet design goals not yet formalized.
Getting the cart so far in front of the horse
is not a high risk activity but it does limit
opportunities to have a system that the builder
understands because it's designed it to a goal
as opposed to a collection of cherry-picked ideas
thrown into a basket before the best possible
recipe for success is discovered.
I'll try to bring some of the thought processes
proven useful in TC aviation for decades to what
has become the real leading edge in light aircraft
design and fabrication. The ideal evolution of
a project has the recipe 98% defined before
the first hole is drilled.
Not a really big deal . . . most electrical bad days
in the cockpit are the product of poor craftsmanship
and/or maintenance as opposed to selection of
components and architecture. Very rarely do we
hear of an instance where architecture was the
driving force for a bad day in the airplane.
I'm still waiting for permission to share the
data from one such case that is now settled.
The folks who paid my exorbitant fees to
analyze the event own the work product.
I hope to have some videos and other documents
to share.
In any event, one does not have to 'bake somebody
else's cookies' to avoid serious error. That's what
we do here on the List. Carlos is putting the
frosting and chocolate sprinkles on a recipe
with a proven track record so our imaginings are
already bounded . . . and that's okay.
Bob . . . | Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: Electric System architecture |
|
|
At 08:23 PM 10/6/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, Your first two articles for Kitplanes were just first rate. I
will look forward to the architecture article.
The people who produce Kitplanes continue to amaze me. I may not be
able to appreciate every article, but I never fail to read it cover to cover.
Wish I could say the same for the EAA mag. Once I get past Mike
Busch's monthly contribution, I'm pretty much done. Perhaps someone
should make the suggestion to EAA that they offer members the option
of Kitplanes instead of Sport Aviation. SA is the better coffee
table magazine, but Kitplanes is the one that goes to the shop.
Rick Girard
do not archive
|
Thank you sir. I've had that discussion with the
SA editors several times over the years dating back
to the days of Jack and Golda Cox. They used to send me
articles for critical review too. But the higher
ups (In the warbirds faction I think) raised a fuss about
some of my work-product and strong-armed them
into publishing some bad stuff. That's what
prompted this piece on my website.
http://tinyurl.com/ltrhnr8
A year or two later I got a call from and
SA editor. He'd seen my review and claimed to
be appalled that this class of article had
been printed in SA. He promised to do better.
Even said he had a budget to pay for articles.
A short time later, he called again asking if
I had something to give him . . . seems somebody
dropped a ball. I spent two hard evenings cranking
out a 'filler' which did get published . . . but
alas . . . no check was forthcoming.
That was the last time I had any contact with
the folks at SA. Paul Dye called me last spring
and asked if I would write for KP. I said 'sure'.
What's more, his checks don't bounce.
Compared to SA I believe KP to be a class act.
Bob . . .
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: Electric System architecture |
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|
Speaking of SA, is the article on the downwind turn (page 12, Oct. issue) as off the mark as I think, or do I need to study my physics?
do not archive
| Quote: | Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine |
On 10/06/2013 09:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)
At 08:23 PM 10/6/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, Your first two articles for Kitplanes were just first rate. I will look forward to the architecture article.
The people who produce Kitplanes continue to amaze me. I may not be able to appreciate every article, but I never fail to read it cover to cover.
Wish I could say the same for the EAA mag. Once I get past Mike Busch's monthly contribution, I'm pretty much done. Perhaps someone should make the suggestion to EAA that they offer members the option of Kitplanes instead of Sport Aviation. SA is the better coffee table magazine, but Kitplanes is the one that goes to the shop.
Rick Girard
do not archive
|
Thank you sir. I've had that discussion with the
SA editors several times over the years dating back
to the days of Jack and Golda Cox. They used to send me
articles for critical review too. But the higher
ups (In the warbirds faction I think) raised a fuss about
some of my work-product and strong-armed them
into publishing some bad stuff. That's what
prompted this piece on my website.
http://tinyurl.com/ltrhnr8
A year or two later I got a call from and
SA editor. He'd seen my review and claimed to
be appalled that this class of article had
been printed in SA. He promised to do better.
Even said he had a budget to pay for articles.
A short time later, he called again asking if
I had something to give him . . . seems somebody
dropped a ball. I spent two hard evenings cranking
out a 'filler' which did get published . . . but
alas . . . no check was forthcoming.
That was the last time I had any contact with
the folks at SA. Paul Dye called me last spring
and asked if I would write for KP. I said 'sure'.
What's more, his checks don't bounce.
Compared to SA I believe KP to be a class act.
Bob . . .
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:56 am Post subject: Electric System architecture |
|
|
At 10:29 PM 10/6/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Speaking of SA, is the article on the downwind turn (page 12, Oct. issue) as off the mark as I think, or do I need to study my physics?
|
What side of the fence did the author argue?
Bob . . . [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:49 am Post subject: Electric System architecture |
|
|
When he started talking about the the wind accelerating to aircraft during the turn, he lost me.
I hope the article gets attached.
| Quote: | Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine |
On 10/07/2013 09:55 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | At 10:29 PM 10/6/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Speaking of SA, is the article on the downwind turn (page 12, Oct. issue) as off the mark as I think, or do I need to study my physics?
|
What side of the fence did the author argue?
Bob . . . |
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
| Description: |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
turn.pdf |
| Filesize: |
384.76 KB |
| Downloaded: |
233 Time(s) |
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peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:42 am Post subject: Electric System architecture |
|
|
I think he is correct - change in wind speed (ie gusts) is the cause of most low altitude downwind turn problems - answer is careful reference to the instruments (in my experience ASI is key) so not to get suckered by distracting cues from ground references. The physics lesson could be cut out without loss of meaning.
Peter
PS Here's another vote for Kitplanes over SA.
Do not archive
On 07/10/2013 04:29, rayj wrote:
[quote] Speaking of SA, is the article on the downwind turn (page 12, Oct. issue) as off the mark as I think, or do I need to study my physics?
do not archive
| Quote: | Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine |
On 10/06/2013 09:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)
At 08:23 PM 10/6/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, Your first two articles for Kitplanes were just first rate. I will look forward to the architecture article.
The people who produce Kitplanes continue to amaze me. I may not be able to appreciate every article, but I never fail to read it cover to cover.
Wish I could say the same for the EAA mag. Once I get past Mike Busch's monthly contribution, I'm pretty much done. Perhaps someone should make the suggestion to EAA that they offer members the option of Kitplanes instead of Sport Aviation. SA is the better coffee table magazine, but Kitplanes is the one that goes to the shop.
Rick Girard
do not archive
|
Thank you sir. I've had that discussion with the
SA editors several times over the years dating back
to the days of Jack and Golda Cox. They used to send me
articles for critical review too. But the higher
ups (In the warbirds faction I think) raised a fuss about
some of my work-product and strong-armed them
into publishing some bad stuff. That's what
prompted this piece on my website.
http://tinyurl.com/ltrhnr8
A year or two later I got a call from and
SA editor. He'd seen my review and claimed to
be appalled that this class of article had
been printed in SA. He promised to do better.
Even said he had a budget to pay for articles.
A short time later, he called again asking if
I had something to give him . . . seems somebody
dropped a ball. I spent two hard evenings cranking
out a 'filler' which did get published . . . but
alas . . . no check was forthcoming.
That was the last time I had any contact with
the folks at SA. Paul Dye called me last spring
and asked if I would write for KP. I said 'sure'.
What's more, his checks don't bounce.
Compared to SA I believe KP to be a class act.
Bob . . .
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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