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edpav8r(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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Some months ago I bought a brand new Ideal Stripmaster (is the "Custom" a different tool?) on eBay for around $30. I also got an additional die set for larger wires for around $12. It chews up Tefzel insulation like nobody's business. It works so well I giggled the first time I used it!
Ideal makes several models of Stripmaster, the difference being the factory-installed die set. I just worked out the best overlap between dies/wire sizes and purchased accordingly.
At about the same time, I bought a full-cycle ratcheting crimper with five or six sets of quick-change crimping dies in a nice blow-mold case for around $50. Quality appears high and it works beautifully.
I just started a 3-day trip today; I can post exact make/model on these items Fri evening.
Eric
On Oct 17, 2013, at 12:47 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
At 07:52 PM 10/16/2013, charluzze wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> After taking the EAA Sportair avionics workshop and learning about you, I'm now trying to identify the best wire-cutting and crimping tools to buy and I had a few questions I'd really like your opinion on, because I'm willing to spend on high quality tools but I'm not aware of the brands/models to consider .
> "Ideal Industries" makes a wire stripper called "Custom Stripmaster"; for avionics and mil-spec work with 'die-type' blades, described in your article. If I'm willing to spend $191, is this the best one to get, and are there other brands worth considering?
> Also, for terminal crimping I'm looking at 'Klein Tools T1710 Compound-Action Ratcheting Crimper - Insulated Terminals' which crimps 10-22 AWG insulated terminals to "meet or exceed MIL-SPEC pull-out tests", costs $239.16. Is this a good choice or are there other mil-spec brands to consider?
> Your advice will be greatly appreciated.
Those tools are certainly top-notch and would serve
you well. If money is not a severe constraint, then
by all means acquire these tools. You're talking
$450 for some tools that may not see much service
after you've finished your airplane. Know that there
are many terminals being installed with much less
expensive tools. See:
http://tinyurl.com/kfk6jss
With some practice, Tefzel wires can be stripped with
a simple, $5 flush-cutter . . .
http://tinyurl.com/lv8jwe7
If you have the money to invest in top
shelf tools, go for it. But if learning to
do the job with $50 worth of tools leaves
you $400 to invest in an upgrade to your
GPS . . . or perhaps some nifty vaccinations
against Dark Panel Syndrome for the flight
bag . . .
http://tinyurl.com/d5mrjgh
. . . then perhaps a more detailed review
of your purchase goals is in order.
Join us on the AeroElectric-List . . . a forum
of about 1600 builders who are wrestling with
these same questions and many more every day.
http://tinyurl.com/57wytb
I think you'll find that time spent in this
forum will be very useful to you in the fabrication
of your airplane.
Bob . . .
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jluckey(at)pacbell.net
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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My .02
I recently bought a new wire stripper from Klein Tools:
http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-11063-Katapult-Stripper/dp/B0035KF232
It's a pretty standard one-squeeze unit with very good quality. I bought mine from the local electrical wholesaler for about $25. A word of caution - it is fairly easy to nick the copper w/ these. You must be careful to CENTER the wire in the proper cutting slot for your size wire. Very often I strip wire using the slot for the next size up wire. In other words, when stripping 22 AWG wire, I put it in the #20 slot.
When you get good at using this tool it is very fast. Replacement blades are about $15. All-in-all a good tool at a good value.
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
To: charluzze <charluzze(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 07:52 PM 10/16/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Bob,
After taking the EAA Sportair avionics workshop and learning about you, I'm now trying to identify the best wire-cutting and crimping tools to buy and I had a few questions I'd really like your opinion on, because I'm willing to spend on high quality tools but I'm not aware of the brands/models to consider .
"Ideal Industries" makes a wire stripper called "Custom Stripmaster"; for avionics and mil-spec work with 'die-type' blades, described in your article. If I'm willing to spend $191, is this the best one to get, and are there other brands worth considering?
Also, for terminal crimping I'm looking at 'Klein Tools T1710 Compound-Action Ratcheting Crimper - Insulated Terminals' which crimps 10-22 AWG insulated terminals to "meet or exceed MIL-SPEC pull-out tests", costs $239.16. Is this a good choice or are there other mil-spec brands to consider?
Your advice will be greatly appreciated.
|
Those tools are certainly top-notch and would serve
you well. If money is not a severe constraint, then
by all means acquire these tools. You're talking
$450 for some tools that may not see much service
after you've finished your airplane. Know that there
are many terminals being installed with much less
expensive tools. See:
http://tinyurl.com/kfk6jss
With some practice, Tefzel wires can be stripped with
a simple, $5 flush-cutter . . .
http://tinyurl.com/lv8jwe7
If you have the money to invest in top
shelf tools, go for it. But if learning to
do the job with $50 worth of tools leaves
you $400 to invest in an upgrade to your
GPS . . . or perhaps some nifty vaccinations
against Dark Panel Syndrome for the flight
bag . . .
http://tinyurl.com/d5mrjgh
. . . then perhaps a more detailed review
of your purchase goals is in order.
Join us on the AeroElectric-List . . . a forum
of about 1600 builders who are wrestling with
these same questions and many more every day.
http://tinyurl.com/57wytb
I think you'll find that time spent in this
forum will be very useful to you in the fabrication
of your airplane.
Bob . . .
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uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:45 pm Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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I recently bought a new wire stripper from Klein Tools:
http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-11063-Katapult-Stripper/dp/B0035KF232
It's a pretty standard one-squeeze unit with very good quality. I bought mine from the local electrical wholesaler for about $25. A word of caution - it is fairly easy to nick the copper w/ these. You must be careful to CENTER the wire in the proper cutting slot for your size wire. Very often I strip wire using the slot for the next size up wire. In other words, when stripping 22 AWG wire, I put it in the #20 slot.
When you get good at using this tool it is very fast. Replacement blades are about $15. All-in-all a good tool at a good value.
Hi Jeff,
I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand.
Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn’t do that?
Sacha
[quote][b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:22 am Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section. | Quote: |
Hi Jeff,
I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand.
Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn’t do that?
Sac
|
--
--Dave Saylor
[quote][b]
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jluckey(at)pacbell.net
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:40 am Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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I've not had that problem, but the suggestion below is probably a good one. Also, I always give the strands of a freshly stripped end a good twisting - it makes insertion into the wire terminal easier. I'm not aware of any settings or adjustments on the tool that would help.
-J
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section. | Quote: | Hi Jeff,
I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand.
Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn’t do that?
Sac
|
--
--Dave Saylor
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livingjw(at)earthlink.net
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:19 am Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp terminal. Better gas tight crimp.
JWL
On 10/18/2013 1:39 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
[quote]
I've not had that problem, but the suggestion below is probably a good one. Also, I always give the strands of a freshly stripped end a good twisting - it makes insertion into the wire terminal easier. I'm not aware of any settings or adjustments on the tool that would help.
-J
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section. | Quote: | Hi Jeff,
I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand.
Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn’t do that?
Sac
|
--
--Dave Saylor
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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| Quote: | I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp terminal. Better gas tight crimp.
|
Yup. Also better not to touch the strands if you're going to be soldering. At least according to the NASA guide.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section.
|
|
I tried doing it slower but had no success. I'll give it another try when down at the hangar again.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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Here we go into a deep dive:
"I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp terminal. Better gas tight crimp."
Twisting the conductors of a fresh strip probably has little effect on the "gas tightness" of the joint in a properly-crimped wire terminal. Getting all of the strands of the conductor into the terminal is the goal and twisting can really facilitate this. Also, when using certain types of splicing terminal like:
http://tinyurl.com/lsvjhfy
it is standard practice to twist all conductors together then crimp the cap in place.
Now, going deeper, the type of wire has a lot to do with it. When working w/ high-quality aviation wire, twisting is usually not necessary because if you look carefully at the end of a freshly stripped piece of MIL-W-22759 ("Tefzel") wire, it is already twisted and the strands tend to lie together quite nicely.
http://tinyurl.com/kqssbro
This is not the case w/ other types of wire - strip a piece of zipcord & you'll see what I mean.
Now, it is possible that contaminants from fingertips could be left behind on the conductor and that's probably not the best thing. (When I'm doing electrical work, I try to keep my hands as clean as possible) I've made a whole bunch of terminations over the decades and I'm unaware of any problems caused by this practice.
"...I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. "
I just stripped a piece of wire w/ my Klein "Katapult" and technique has a lot to do with it. I notice that I pull the wire out of the clamping jaws as soon as it will come free by keeping tension on the wire as I (slowly) release the tool after stripping. This pulls the wire clear of the tool before the stripping dies have a chance to snap back and whack the newly-stripped end.
Here are a couple of tips:
1. Squeeze the tool fully, until it stops when performing the strip. This sets whatever sequencing mechanism in the tool.
2. Release the tool slowly (keeping tension on the wire, as mentioned above) - duration of the release should be around a second.
3. Do some "dry runs" and watch when the wire clamping jaws begin to move on release. If you play w/ it, you will notice that when operating the tool quickly, sometimes the wire-clamping jaws do not release before the heads slap back together, hence the suggestion to slow-down the release.
YMMV (WTMI)
-Jeff
From: John W Livingston <livingjw(at)earthlink.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp terminal. Better gas tight crimp.
JWL
On 10/18/2013 1:39 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
[quote]
I've not had that problem, but the suggestion below is probably a good one. Also, I always give the strands of a freshly stripped end a good twisting - it makes insertion into the wire terminal easier. I'm not aware of any settings or adjustments on the tool that would help.
-J
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you justrelease the handles a little more slowly that the grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section. | Quote: | Hi Jeff,
I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand.
Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn’t do that?
Sac
|
--
--Dave Saylor
========================
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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JOHN TIPTON
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question |
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What isn't noticed by the majority is that the strands are twisted anti clockwise, so the majority who cannot resist twisting, actually 'un-twist' the starnds
[quote] From: Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, 19 October 2013, 17:43
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
Here we go into a deep dive:
"I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp terminal. Better gas tight crimp."
Twisting the conductors of a fresh strip probably has little effect on the "gas tightness" of the joint in a properly-crimped wire terminal. Getting all of the strands of the conductor into the terminal is the goal and twisting can really facilitate this. Also, when using certain types of splicing terminal like:
http://tinyurl.com/lsvjhfy
it is standard practice to twist all conductors together then crimp the cap in place.
Now, going deeper, the type of wire has a lot to do with it. When working w/ high-quality aviation wire, twisting is usually not necessary because if you look carefully at the end of a freshly stripped piece of MIL-W-22759 ("Tefzel") wire, it is already twisted and the strands tend to lie together quite nicely.
http://tinyurl.com/kqssbro
This is not the case w/ other types of wire - strip a piece of zipcord & you'll see what I mean.
Now, it is possible that contaminants from fingertips could be left behind on the conductor and that's probably not the best thing. (When I'm doing electrical work, I try to keep my hands as clean as possible) I've made a whole bunch of terminations over the decades and I'm unaware of any problems caused by this practice.
"...I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. "
I just stripped a piece of wire w/ my Klein "Katapult" and technique has a lot to do with it. I notice that I pull the wire out of the clamping jaws as soon as it will come free by keeping tension on the wire as I (slowly) release the tool after stripping. This pulls the wire clear of the tool before the stripping dies have a chance to snap back and whack the newly-stripped end.
Here are a couple of tips:
1. Squeeze the tool fully, until it stops when performing the strip. This sets whatever sequencing mechanism in the tool.
2. Release the tool slowly (keeping tension on the wire, as mentioned above) - duration of the release should be around a second.
3. Do some "dry runs" and watch when the wire clamping jaws begin to move on release. If you play w/ it, you will notice that when operating the tool quickly, sometimes the wire-clamping jaws do not release before the heads slap back together, hence the suggestion to slow-down the release.
YMMV (WTMI)
-Jeff
From: John W Livingston <livingjw(at)earthlink.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp terminal. Better gas tight crimp.
JWL
On 10/18/2013 1:39 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
| Quote: |
I've not had that problem, but the suggestion below is probably a good one. Also, I always give the strands of a freshly stripped end a good twisting - it makes insertion into the wire terminal easier. I'm not aware of any settings or adjustments on the tool that would help.
-J
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question
I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section. | Quote: | Hi Jeff,
I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the “claws” then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand.
Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn’t do that?
Sac
|
--
--Dave Saylor
========================
http://www.matro====================
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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