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Paralleling the control columns

 
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

I noticed that I will not be able to parallel the two colums. Irrespective
of my rotation of my stick as it goes into the column, now that both are
setup in the plane, I can see that my copilot stick is angled more out
toward the front right.

What I am trying to say is that the plane of the entire stick is aiming
toward the right(The plane being the base, the curve and the top hand grip
area as if it was laying on a flat table). It looks like the receiver in
the column for the copilots side is angled out.

With this, I will never get the stick parallel. They are not in the same
plane. No it can't be corrected by rotating the shaft and redrilling. It is
the column that is out of toe per say.

Did anyone else notice this on their controls? I think, like the elevator
control horns, there might be a sufficient deviation between rt and lf in
the tooling.

The pilots side control stick's plane looks perfectly oreinted straight
ahead.

I don't think the hand grip portion will be that noticeble to one flying the
plane from either side.

Any other ideas other that getting a new column and stick or just leaving it
alone?

John G.


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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

The vertical portion at the top of the stick is the most important part to
get lined up, This can be adjusted by adjusting the rod that connects the
two sticks. I think I hear you saying, however, that the half-moon part of
the stick is not pointing directly forward. Is this correct? I don't think
this is a crucial, although it might not looks as good as it could. If I am
completely misunderstanding, send a picture with a line drawn that
exaggerates the problem and I may be able to offer something. I haven't
seen any problems in the welded steel parts in this area in the 5 planes
that I have helped with.

Do not archive

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694

--


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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

Jesse,

You are completely correct in your understanding of what I said. I have
spent some time trying to just get the two straight portions parallel, but
it doesn't seem to be gettng there.

JOhn
[quote]From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:26:19 -0400



The vertical portion at the top of the stick is the most important part to
get lined up, This can be adjusted by adjusting the rod that connects the
two sticks. I think I hear you saying, however, that the half-moon part of
the stick is not pointing directly forward. Is this correct? I don't
think
this is a crucial, although it might not looks as good as it could. If I
am
completely misunderstanding, send a picture with a line drawn that
exaggerates the problem and I may be able to offer something. I haven't
seen any problems in the welded steel parts in this area in the 5 planes
that I have helped with.

Do not archive

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694

--


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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:54 am    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

Try disconnecting them from each other and hold them parallel and see how
close you can get them. One way to test it is to measure the distance
between the bases (on center) and then again at the same point on both of
the vertical parts. If this doesn't work, you can put a level on one stick
(the one that you are comfortable with) and get it plumb. Then measure the
distance between the stick and the side wall of the plane. Now use this
same measurement between the other stick and the side wall. If you can't
get it perfect, pick a place on the stick that is the most important and get
that as close as you can.

This is the best I can suggest.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694

--


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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

Thanks,

Worked with the level a bit yesterday, will do the other suggestons today.

john
[quote]From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:53:29 -0400



Try disconnecting them from each other and hold them parallel and see how
close you can get them. One way to test it is to measure the distance
between the bases (on center) and then again at the same point on both of
the vertical parts. If this doesn't work, you can put a level on one stick
(the one that you are comfortable with) and get it plumb. Then measure the
distance between the stick and the side wall of the plane. Now use this
same measurement between the other stick and the side wall. If you can't
get it perfect, pick a place on the stick that is the most important and
get
that as close as you can.

This is the best I can suggest.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694

--


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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

Okay, I found the problem to be that the bushing receiver is not welded
parallel to the receiver of the control stick. So no matter what, the bow in
the control stick is angled toward the co pilot's right knee.

In addition, the bushing reveiver is reemed out oversize for the O.D. of the
bushing and this further complicates things as the bushing is loose inside
the receiver and the column has a lot of play.

My bushings came Begee tied inside the bushing collar. In other words, I
didn't cause the oversize issue.

I am returning the pieces to Van's.

JOhn
[quote]From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 07:18:22 -0700



Thanks,

Worked with the level a bit yesterday, will do the other suggestons today.

john
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns
>Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:53:29 -0400
>
>
>
>Try disconnecting them from each other and hold them parallel and see how
>close you can get them. One way to test it is to measure the distance
>between the bases (on center) and then again at the same point on both of
>the vertical parts. If this doesn't work, you can put a level on one
>stick
>(the one that you are comfortable with) and get it plumb. Then measure
>the
>distance between the stick and the side wall of the plane. Now use this
>same measurement between the other stick and the side wall. If you can't
>get it perfect, pick a place on the stick that is the most important and
>get
>that as close as you can.
>
>This is the best I can suggest.
>
>Jesse Saint
>Saint Aviation, Inc.
>jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>www.saintaviation.com
>Cell: 352-427-0285
>Fax: 815-377-3694
>
>--


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jfrjr(at)adelphia.net
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

John: I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but one
of my control pieces also had a loose bushing. But, of course, I didn't
realize that until I had the controls all in place. The result, on the
pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle. There is
just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side. Much less than in my
172 but still irritating. I have not replaced the part yet and I don't know
if I should? I just wonder if other folks are having this loose bushing
problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from Van's may or may not
sovle the problem. Jay Rowe
---


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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

I have seen the stick wiggle by having the bushing too long so the stick
wiggles by sliding up and down the bushing. It is very annoying,
especially when the auto pilot is engaged, because you can then feel the
wiggle because there are strong forces on the controls, yet you still need
to touch the stick for PTT and trims. I have not seen the bushing
actually loose inside the stick base, though. Usually it is too tight and
it has to be cleaned out so it rotates smoothly. A little grease also
helps for smoothness, but the wiggle can often be taken out by shortening
the bushing a little so there isn't the length travel.

Jesse Saint
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
352-427-0285

[quote]

John: I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but
one
of my control pieces also had a loose bushing. But, of course, I didn't
realize that until I had the controls all in place. The result, on the
pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle. There is
just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side. Much less than in my
172 but still irritating. I have not replaced the part yet and I don't
know
if I should? I just wonder if other folks are having this loose bushing
problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from Van's may or may not
sovle the problem. Jay Rowe
---


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

This time I'm not going to say much on this subject, as I'm
tired of the ranting. But, depending on who you talk
to, that bushing can be designed to rotate around on the
weldment, or rotate around on the bolt. In the end, if you
have no slop, you have no problem, and if you fix the slop
by either buying material and making and oversized bushing,
or affixing the bushing to the weldment with gap filler
material so it rotates on the bolt, you can eliminate the
issue. And despite all the ranting, either way will work,
and you will very likely see very long service life from
that point on. I think I fixed mine about a hundred hours
ago or so, and it's been working great and inspected
perfect this year at condition inspection time.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 204 hours and couting
do not archive
Jay Rowe wrote:
[quote]

John: I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but
one of my control pieces also had a loose bushing. But, of course, I
didn't realize that until I had the controls all in place. The result,
on the pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle.
There is just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side. Much less
than in my 172 but still irritating. I have not replaced the part yet
and I don't know if I should? I just wonder if other folks are having
this loose bushing problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from
Van's may or may not sovle the problem. Jay Rowe
---


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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Paralleling the control columns Reply with quote

Thank you all for the input. The mechanism, as I understand it is this.

Prefered relationship of all parts:

Bushing inside the weldment should glide/rotate, but should not be slopy.

Bolt inside the bushing should glide/ rotate, but no slop

Bushing should be the exact length as the inner distance of the fork it goes
into. (The fork of the cross member which ties the columns together)

The bushing reciever/ weldment should be 1/32" shorter than bushing and
absolutely no more than 1/16" shorter than Bushing.

This should elimate any slop.

NOTE:

I haven't hooked up to the wings, nor have I finished the pushod in the
wings, but with nothing but the sticks hooked up. When one pushes the stick
to full right or left then push full backward(UP) on the stick, the nut that
anchors the cross member to the stick column reciever gets stuck on the
vertical peice that has the bearing that makes up the forward part of the
seat.

I imagine there are aileron stops on the bellcranks inside the wing that
will prevent this from happening in real
flight.....RIGHT???????????????????????????

JOhn G. 409

Ideally the bushing should rotate in the weldment AN 4 bolt should be able
to rotate inside the bishing but with no lateral play.

[quote]From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Paralleling the control columns
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:20:44 -0500



This time I'm not going to say much on this subject, as I'm
tired of the ranting. But, depending on who you talk
to, that bushing can be designed to rotate around on the
weldment, or rotate around on the bolt. In the end, if you
have no slop, you have no problem, and if you fix the slop
by either buying material and making and oversized bushing,
or affixing the bushing to the weldment with gap filler
material so it rotates on the bolt, you can eliminate the
issue. And despite all the ranting, either way will work,
and you will very likely see very long service life from
that point on. I think I fixed mine about a hundred hours
ago or so, and it's been working great and inspected
perfect this year at condition inspection time.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 204 hours and couting
do not archive
Jay Rowe wrote:
>
>
>John: I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but
>one of my control pieces also had a loose bushing. But, of course, I
>didn't realize that until I had the controls all in place. The result, on
>the pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle. There
>is just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side. Much less than in
>my 172 but still irritating. I have not replaced the part yet and I don't
>know if I should? I just wonder if other folks are having this loose
>bushing problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from Van's may or
>may not sovle the problem. Jay Rowe
>---


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