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Paralleling the control columns

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

I noticed that I will not be able to parallel the two colums. Irrespective 

of my rotation of my stick as it goes into the column, now that both are 

setup in the plane, I can see that my copilot stick is angled more out 

toward the front right.



What I am trying to say is that the plane of the entire stick is aiming 

toward the right(The plane being the base, the curve and the top hand grip 

area as if it was laying on a flat table).  It looks like the receiver in 

the column for the copilots side is angled out.



With this, I will never get the stick parallel. They are not in the same 

plane. No it can't be corrected by rotating the shaft and redrilling. It is 

the column that is out of toe per say.



Did anyone else notice this on their controls?  I think, like the elevator 

control horns, there might be a sufficient deviation between rt and lf in 

the tooling.



The pilots side control stick's plane looks perfectly oreinted straight 

ahead.



I don't think the hand grip portion will be that noticeble to one flying the 

plane from either side.



Any other ideas other that getting a new column and stick or just leaving it 

alone?



John G.

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

The vertical portion at the top of the stick is the most important part to

get lined up,  This can be adjusted by adjusting the rod that connects the

two sticks.  I think I hear you saying, however, that the half-moon part of

the stick is not pointing directly forward.  Is this correct?  I don't think

this is a crucial, although it might not looks as good as it could.  If I am

completely misunderstanding, send a picture with a line drawn that

exaggerates the problem and I may be able to offer something.  I haven't

seen any problems in the welded steel parts in this area in the 5 planes

that I have helped with.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

Jesse,



You are completely correct in your understanding of what I said. I have 

spent some time trying to just get the two straight portions parallel, but 

it doesn't seem to be gettng there.



JOhn

[quote]From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:26:19 -0400






The vertical portion at the top of the stick is the most important part to

get lined up,  This can be adjusted by adjusting the rod that connects the

two sticks.  I think I hear you saying, however, that the half-moon part of

the stick is not pointing directly forward.  Is this correct?  I don't 

think

this is a crucial, although it might not looks as good as it could.  If I 

am

completely misunderstanding, send a picture with a line drawn that

exaggerates the problem and I may be able to offer something.  I haven't

seen any problems in the welded steel parts in this area in the 5 planes

that I have helped with.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

Try disconnecting them from each other and hold them parallel and see how

close you can get them.  One way to test it is to measure the distance

between the bases (on center) and then again at the same point on both of

the vertical parts.  If this doesn't work, you can put a level on one stick

(the one that you are comfortable with) and get it plumb.  Then measure the

distance between the stick and the side wall of the plane.  Now use this

same measurement between the other stick and the side wall.  If you can't

get it perfect, pick a place on the stick that is the most important and get

that as close as you can.



This is the best I can suggest.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

Thanks,



Worked with the level a bit yesterday, will do the other suggestons today.



john

[quote]From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns

Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:53:29 -0400






Try disconnecting them from each other and hold them parallel and see how

close you can get them.  One way to test it is to measure the distance

between the bases (on center) and then again at the same point on both of

the vertical parts.  If this doesn't work, you can put a level on one stick

(the one that you are comfortable with) and get it plumb.  Then measure the

distance between the stick and the side wall of the plane.  Now use this

same measurement between the other stick and the side wall.  If you can't

get it perfect, pick a place on the stick that is the most important and 

get

that as close as you can.



This is the best I can suggest.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

Okay, I found the problem to be that the bushing receiver is not welded 

parallel to the receiver of the control stick. So no matter what, the bow in 

the control stick is angled toward the co pilot's right knee.



In addition, the bushing reveiver is reemed out oversize for the O.D. of the 

bushing and this further complicates things as the bushing is loose inside 

the receiver and the column has a lot of play.



My bushings came Begee tied inside the bushing collar. In other words, I 

didn't cause the oversize issue.



I am returning the pieces to Van's.



JOhn

[quote]From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns

Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 07:18:22 -0700






Thanks,



Worked with the level a bit yesterday, will do the other suggestons today.



john

>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>

>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

>Subject: RE: Paralleling the control columns

>Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:53:29 -0400

>

>

>

>Try disconnecting them from each other and hold them parallel and see how

>close you can get them.  One way to test it is to measure the distance

>between the bases (on center) and then again at the same point on both of

>the vertical parts.  If this doesn't work, you can put a level on one 

>stick

>(the one that you are comfortable with) and get it plumb.  Then measure 

>the

>distance between the stick and the side wall of the plane.  Now use this

>same measurement between the other stick and the side wall.  If you can't

>get it perfect, pick a place on the stick that is the most important and 

>get

>that as close as you can.

>

>This is the best I can suggest.

>

>Jesse Saint

>Saint Aviation, Inc.

>jesse(at)saintaviation.com

>www.saintaviation.com

>Cell: 352-427-0285

>Fax: 815-377-3694

>

>--

jfrjr(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

John:  I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but one 

of my control pieces also had a loose bushing.  But, of course, I didn't 

realize that until I had the controls all in place.  The result, on the 

pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle. There is 

just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side.  Much less than in my 

172 but still irritating.  I have not replaced the part yet and I don't know 

if I should?  I just wonder if other folks are having this loose bushing 

problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from Van's may or may not 

sovle the problem. Jay Rowe

---

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

I have seen the stick wiggle by having the bushing too long so the stick

wiggles by sliding up and down the bushing.  It is very annoying,

especially when the auto pilot is engaged, because you can then feel the

wiggle because there are strong forces on the controls, yet you still need

to touch the stick for PTT and trims.  I have not seen the bushing

actually loose inside the stick base, though.  Usually it is too tight and

it has to be cleaned out so it rotates smoothly.  A little grease also

helps for smoothness, but the wiggle can often be taken out by shortening

the bushing a little so there isn't the length travel.



Jesse Saint

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



[quote] 



 John:  I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but

 one

 of my control pieces also had a loose bushing.  But, of course, I didn't

 realize that until I had the controls all in place.  The result, on the

 pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle. There is

 just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side.  Much less than in my

 172 but still irritating.  I have not replaced the part yet and I don't

 know

 if I should?  I just wonder if other folks are having this loose bushing

 problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from Van's may or may not

 sovle the problem. Jay Rowe

 ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

This time I'm not going to say much on this subject, as I'm

tired of the ranting.  But, depending on who you talk

to, that bushing can be designed to rotate around on the

weldment, or rotate around on the bolt.  In the end, if you

have no slop, you have no problem, and if you fix the slop

by either buying material and making and oversized bushing,

or affixing the bushing to the weldment with gap filler

material so it rotates on the bolt, you can eliminate the

issue.  And despite all the ranting, either way will work,

and you will very likely see very long service life from

that point on.  I think I fixed mine about a hundred hours

ago or so, and it's been working great and inspected

perfect this year at condition inspection time.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 204 hours and couting

do not archive

Jay Rowe wrote:

[quote] 

 

 John:  I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but 

 one of my control pieces also had a loose bushing.  But, of course, I 

 didn't realize that until I had the controls all in place.  The result, 

 on the pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle. 

 There is just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side.  Much less 

 than in my 172 but still irritating.  I have not replaced the part yet 

 and I don't know if I should?  I just wonder if other folks are having 

 this loose bushing problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from 

 Van's may or may not sovle the problem. Jay Rowe

 ---

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: Paralleling the control columns

Thank you all for the input. The mechanism, as I understand it is this.



Prefered relationship of all parts:



Bushing inside the weldment should glide/rotate, but should not be slopy.



Bolt inside the bushing should glide/ rotate, but no slop



Bushing should be the exact length as the inner distance of the fork it goes 

into. (The fork of the cross member which ties the columns together)



The bushing reciever/ weldment should be 1/32" shorter  than bushing and 

absolutely no more than 1/16" shorter than Bushing.



This should elimate any slop.



NOTE:



I haven't hooked up to the wings, nor have I finished the pushod in the 

wings, but with nothing but the sticks hooked up. When one pushes the stick 

to full right or left then push full backward(UP) on the stick, the nut that 

anchors the cross member to the stick column reciever gets stuck on the 

vertical peice that has the bearing that makes up the forward part of the 

seat.



I imagine there are aileron stops on the bellcranks inside the wing that 

will prevent this from happening in real 

flight.....RIGHT???????????????????????????



JOhn G. 409



Ideally the bushing should rotate in the weldment AN 4 bolt should be able 

to rotate inside the bishing but with no lateral play.



[quote]From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Paralleling the control columns

Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:20:44 -0500






This time I'm not going to say much on this subject, as I'm

tired of the ranting.  But, depending on who you talk

to, that bushing can be designed to rotate around on the

weldment, or rotate around on the bolt.  In the end, if you

have no slop, you have no problem, and if you fix the slop

by either buying material and making and oversized bushing,

or affixing the bushing to the weldment with gap filler

material so it rotates on the bolt, you can eliminate the

issue.  And despite all the ranting, either way will work,

and you will very likely see very long service life from

that point on.  I think I fixed mine about a hundred hours

ago or so, and it's been working great and inspected

perfect this year at condition inspection time.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 204 hours and couting

do not archive

Jay Rowe wrote:

>

>

>John:  I did not have the misalignment problem that has plaugued you but 

>one of my control pieces also had a loose bushing.  But, of course, I 

>didn't realize that until I had the controls all in place.  The result, on 

>the pilot's side, is about a 1/4 inch of fore and aft stick wiggle. There 

>is just the slightest of wiggle on the co-pilot's side.  Much less than in 

>my 172 but still irritating.  I have not replaced the part yet and I don't 

>know if I should?  I just wonder if other folks are having this loose 

>bushing problem, and if so how to fix since a new part from Van's may or 

>may not sovle the problem. Jay Rowe

>---

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