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Flap attachment procedure

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asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Folks



I am a bit confused about the procedure for attaching the flaps to the

wings. I hope someone can clarify it for me. 



First, I am not clear on what exact purpose is served by the flap

setting template, and which surfaces or points are considered critical.

The manual says to make a template and glue it to the wing with bondo.

I made such a template from particle board, but I was unsuccessful in

bonding it with bondo. The board is heavy enough and the contact area

small enough that I can't think how some blobs of bondo is going to

keep it in place while I flip the wing over. 

Regarding the alignment, it would seem to me the hinge pivot point

should be positioned such that it is at the center of the flap's

leading edge arc (and the corresponding arc of the wing's closeout) to

ensure smooth flap motion without rubbing the wing's closeout area. If

I am thinking this through correctly, this step could be accomplished

without the use of a template by positioning the flap such that its

bottom surface is aligned to the wing's bottom surface, and then

ensuring a constant gap between the wing and flap from root to tip. I

was thinking of inserting some wooden blocks in the closeout area to

accurately set this gap between the flap and the closeout. Am I missing

something?

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Andrew,

  

 One other method of creating a clean constant even edge between the wing  and the flap would be done at the time of closing out the wings, is to  place some inexpensive floor tile that has been warmed up and pliable along the  length of the flap, allow it to cool so it takes the shape of the flaps leading  edge, and then epoxy the top of the wing on.

 While I have not reached that point yet (wings are done but I have this  nagging feeling that as soon as I close the wings up, something will come along  and have to be done inside them), I am ready with the floor tile.   

 Mike Duane  A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru 3300  

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable  Prop





See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Hi Andrew,



I found that using the template (I made mine out of clear cedar and 

used hot glue to bond it to the wing) with the half inch "notch" to 

catch the trailing edge of the flap really made it simple to keep the 

flap in proper location and orientation w/ respect to the wing. Keeping 

the relationship between flap and wing constant seemed important, and 

the template does just that.



I used 3 sets of doubled up tongue depressors to set the proper 

vertical gap between flap and wing by taping them to the underside of 

the wing and allowing them to hang down sideways along the wing 

trailing edge close out; one set at each of the flap hinges.



You're right in anticipating that the "blobs of bondo" may break loose 

when flipping the wing over; at least that's what happened to me w/ my 

hot glue blobs; however, I didn't find this to be a problem.



As to any rubbing between the flap and wing close out, the tongue 

depressors take care of the vertical portion of the close out, and the 

gap between the curved, trailing edge of the close out and the flap 

will be dealt with at the time the upper wing skin is attached...again 

using a string of tongue depressors to establish an even and adequate 

gap.



Assuming you have yet to drill for the bolts between the W18s and Ws 

19, 20, and 21, I used "C" clamps to secure them together while I 

ensured that the flap movement was smooth and just the way I wanted...I 

spent quite some time as I recall bringing everything into proper 

alignment before drilling (w/ a pesky borrowed compact angled airdrill).



The template will also be essential when the time comes to set the 

angle of max. flap deflection.



Hope this helps,



Fred



On Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 10:35  AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <asarangan(at)yahoo.com>



 Folks



 I am a bit confused about the procedure for attaching the flaps to the

 wings. I hope someone can clarify it for me.



 First, I am not clear on what exact purpose is served by the flap

 setting template, and which surfaces or points are considered critical.

 The manual says to make a template and glue it to the wing with bondo.

 I made such a template from particle board, but I was unsuccessful in

 bonding it with bondo. The board is heavy enough and the contact area

 small enough that I can't think how some blobs of bondo is going to

 keep it in place while I flip the wing over.

 Regarding the alignment, it would seem to me the hinge pivot point

 should be positioned such that it is at the center of the flap's

 leading edge arc (and the corresponding arc of the wing's closeout) to

 ensure smooth flap motion without rubbing the wing's closeout area. If

 I am thinking this through correctly, this step could be accomplished

 without the use of a template by positioning the flap such that its

 bottom surface is aligned to the wing's bottom surface, and then

 ensuring a constant gap between the wing and flap from root to tip. I

 was thinking of inserting some wooden blocks in the closeout area to

 accurately set this gap between the flap and the closeout. Am I missing

 something?

keithhickling(at)clear.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Andrew,

The flap setting template does seem to result in the correct setup position

for the flap hinges. The cutaway in the middle of the template does not

contact the wing, so the contact areas are the areas on the leading and

trailing edges and the flap. In fact, unless your cutting out is perfect,

only the low points (ie closest to the wing surface) will contact. The

critical points are the leading edge, the lowest points in front of and

behind the cutout area, the  region over the flap, and the notch at the aft

end to retain the flap trailing edge. If the lowest points in these regions

are accurate it should be fine, and the odd high point is not important.



The template does tend to break off with bondo, but if you do some very

light sanding of the wing surface with fine paper  to give it a key and bond

it at 6-8 points it should be OK. Then just turn the wing over, rest the

flap on the template and the closeout, and place the spacers between the

flap leading edge and the front of the flap closeout. The template supports

the root and trailing edge of the flap, and it should sit there on the

closeout without needing additional support.  If everything is

correct the end of the flap should line up with the aileron in its neutral

position.  Flip the flap connectors over onto the wing, clamp them to the

W18 plates and swing the flap through its arc to make sure all is well.

Slight rubbing on the trailing edge of the closeout doesn't matter at this

stage - will be corrected when bonding on the top wing skin. As the flap

arcs back into the extended position the space between it and the closeout

increases, so there is quite a gap at full extension.



Hope that helps. It worked well for me.



Regards,

Keith Hickling,

Kit 613 Mono XS,

New Zealand.



---

EuropaXSA276(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Hi Andrew.

 I screwed some L shaped metal brackets to the base of my templates.  ( Cheap at Home Depot cabinet hardware area) 

 Then used clamps at the wing root to hold the template in place.  Was easy and worked great! 

  

 Take a look at the photos in my area of the Europa Owners Site.  Chapter Nine photos.

 http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album59&id=CH9S_8&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

 Hope that helps!

  

 Brian Skelly

Europa XS TriGear #A276

North Texas USA

You can see my build photos at:

http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

europa(at)pstewart.f2s.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Mike

The job I forgot before closing out the wings was to take the stanley knife out!



REgards



Paul

G-GIDY

On 4 Apr 2007, at 19:49, DuaneFamly(at)aol.com (DuaneFamly(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote]  Andrew,

  

 One other method of creating a clean constant even edge between the wing and the flap would be done at the time of closing out the wings, is to place some inexpensive floor tile that has been warmed up and pliable along the length of the flap, allow it to cool so it takes the shape of the flaps leading edge, and then epoxy the top of the wing on.

 While I have not reached that point yet (wings are done but I have this nagging feeling that as soon as I close the wings up, something will come along and have to be done inside them), I am ready with the floor tile.  

 Mike Duane A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru 3300 

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable Prop





See what's free at AOL.com. 

  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
[b]

johnwigney(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Hi Andrew,



The wing/flap template procedure is a little strange. I assume that Europa was trying to protect intellectual property when they only listed a discontinuous set of  wing top profile data points for the template. Anyway, you may be aware that the Europa wing is a laminar flow section. Laminar flow wings generally have profiles which look a lot different to a regular Clark Y aerofoil say. I think I am correct that the wing is very slightly hollow on the upper rear section so that is why it is important to use the template. If you use the bottom surface of the flap aligned with the wing's bottom surface, you may not get the desired result. Very small profile changes can have big impact on wing performance. Perhaps others on the list can confirm my ideas.



Re your particle board template problem, perhaps you could fit some extra side brackets to steady it. 



Regarding the gap between the flap and the closeout, I think it is wise to insert some small fixed spacers to maintain the gap. However, these should only be positioned at two or three places since smooth airflow through the slot is an important part of the wing lift when the flaps are down.



Just my independent ideas. Hope they help.



Cheers, John



******************

From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM>

Subject: Flap attachment procedure

Folks

I am a bit confused about the procedure for attaching the flaps to the wings. I hope someone can clarify it for me. 



First, I am not clear on what exact purpose is served by the flap setting template, and which surfaces or points are considered critical. The manual says to make a template and glue it to the wing with bondo. I made such a template from particle board, but I was unsuccessful in bonding it with bondo. The board is heavy enough and the contact area small enough that I can't think how some blobs of bondo is going to keep it in place while I flip the wing over. 



Regarding the alignment, it would seem to me the hinge pivot point should be positioned such that it is at the center of the flap's leading edge arc (and the corresponding arc of the wing's closeout) to ensure smooth flap motion without rubbing the wing's closeout area. If I am thinking this through correctly, this step could be accomplished without the use of a template by positioning the flap such that its bottom surface is aligned to the wing's bottom surface, and then ensuring a constant gap between the wing and flap from root to tip. I was thinking of inserting some wooden blocks in the closeout area to accurately set this gap between the flap and the closeout. Am I missing something? 

******************************

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

John

you are absolutely right. The trailing edge as designed by Don Dykins 

has a slight reflex to reduce drag in the cruise. I did some arm 

twisting and got hold of the coordinates of the section.

I like to see the TE about half an inch up from straight.

Graham



John & Paddy Wigney wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Andrew,

 

 The wing/flap template procedure is a little strange. I assume that 

 Europa was trying to protect intellectual property when they only listed 

 a discontinuous set of  wing top profile data points for the template. 

 Anyway, you may be aware that the Europa wing is a laminar flow section. 

 Laminar flow wings generally have profiles which look a lot different to 

 a regular Clark Y aerofoil say. I think I am correct that the wing is 

 very slightly hollow on the upper rear section so that is why it is 

 important to use the template. If you use the bottom surface of the flap 

 aligned with the wing's bottom surface, you may not get the desired 

 result. Very small profile changes can have big impact on wing 

 performance. Perhaps others on the list can confirm my ideas.

 

 Cheers, John

erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

Andrew, 

I think you will find the following method of attaching the flap to wing to be much much easier than that described in the good book.  Fabricate the template as outlined in the book.  Using your previously made wing cradles, position the wind in the vertical plane.  Now bond the template to the wing.  Per the book fabricate three spacers 3-5mm each.  Next simply place them in the flap closeout and then insert the flap.  Using a small "C" clamp, temporarily clamp the center flap bracket FL2 to its respective W18.  I found that I did not need to place blobs of bondo between the close-out flanges and flap skin.  Now proceed with the remainder of the procedure as outlined in the manual, however, you will want to keep the wing in the vertical plane all the way through the remainder of the chapter, including setting the outriggers.  One advantage of keeping the wing vertical is that it is very easy to sight down the wings to verify the gap between the top skin of the wing and the top skin of the flap is uniform.  Hope the above helps you out. 

Regards,



Erich Trombley

N28ET Classic Mono 914 



________________________________________________________________________

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    [quote][b]

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Flap attachment procedure

When I was holding a ¼” drill bit in the TP13 bushing on the tailplane, to see how the bushing lined up with the torque tube pin, I let go of it, and ‘whoosh-thunk’ -it disappeared into the tailplane. I must have drilled a little too far, and into the cavity, when clearing out the flox behind the bushing, to accept the length of the pin. I guess I will have a partial tool box with me wherever I go. Hopefully it won’t damage the foam. Anyone had this goof happen, and how did the bit come out, if ever?  

   

Greg Fuchs   

A050  XS Tri 914 Intend Fit  

Tigard (Portland) Oregon  

Started Jan 2007  

Building in hanger in Newberg  

Sportsman Airpark, 2S6  

Ready for the long haul J  

   

     

 	  Quote: 	
		  The job I forgot before closing out the wings was to take the stanley knife out!  

    
	


 	  Quote: 	
		     

          
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Mike Duane A207A

 >Redding, California
	


 

   

  

  



 

         

  

  

  

  [quote] [b]

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