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HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

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Rschultz5(at)houston.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Has anyone had problems with a 914 that won’t shut down? On a flight today everything started out fine until the first stop, On turning the switch to off the engine kept running, shutting the master off did not help either. The engine just continued to run. Turning off the fuel switch solved the problem. Restarting the engine showed no drop in RPM from one set of plugs. The flight home was uneventful but again the engine would not drop RPM’s from one set of plugs (closest to the off position?) and had to have the fuel cut off the kill the engine. I have not done any trouble shooting yet but hope to get back out to the airport tomorrow (Saturday) or early next week to see what has opened up in the system.   

   

Anyone have ideas at this early point?  

   

One thing about a Rotax they want to keep flying. I guess the plane just was not ready to stop having fun today! J  

   

Rich Schultz  

N262AE  

713-703-2156  

       [quote][b]

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Rich,

  

  Be very careful not to turn the prop  until this is fixed. You may have a hot ignition! The engine may start without  you wanting it to.....and when you may be in a bad  position!

  



 I would hazard a guess that your magnetos are not getting grounded when you  turn off the mag switches. In other words, the switches are not grounding the  mags. I would check resistance to ground at each magneto when  the corresponding switch is on or off. Off should give you almost zero  ohms, which means the mag is grounded, and the engine should shut  off. And the meter should read max resistance on analog meters or  OL on digital meters when the switch is turned On, so the engine runs.   

 Mike Duane  A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru 3300  

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable  Prop





See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Is it possible that the engine was run hard, and one cylinder got hotter than the other (due to carbon buildup, etc)?  

In the troublehooting section for the  914 Rotax manual, it states that a hot engine which has not been allowed to cool down could do this, even with the ignition turned off. It advises to idle at 2000 RPM before shutting down.  

   

Just a pre-initial stab at it…. Due to the RPM’s not dropping from one set of plugs, this may not be it.  

   

More than likely, it is the old open grounding wire problem, which old magneto-types can have.  

   

Looking at the schematic for the 914, shows a ‘breakerless capacitor discharge’ design. It also shows a grounding wire from the module, through a switch. If the engine was not put away overly hot, I would start there. Verify with an ohm meter, or a volt meter (or both) that the ground wire from the module, does in fact get grounded through the switch.  

   

Greg Fuchs   

A050  XS Tri 914 Intend Fit  

Tigard (Portland) Oregon  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schultz

 Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 8:49 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!  

  

   

Has anyone had problems with a 914 that won’t shut down? On a flight today everything started out fine until the first stop, On turning the switch to off the engine kept running, shutting the master off did not help either. The engine just continued to run. Turning off the fuel switch solved the problem. Restarting the engine showed no drop in RPM from one set of plugs. The flight home was uneventful but again the engine would not drop RPM’s from one set of plugs (closest to the off position?) and had to have the fuel cut off the kill the engine. I have not done any trouble shooting yet but hope to get back out to the airport tomorrow (Saturday) or early next week to see what has opened up in the system.   

   

Anyone have ideas at this early point?  

   

One thing about a Rotax they want to keep flying. I guess the plane just was not ready to stop having fun today! J  

   

Rich Schultz  

N262AE  

713-703-2156   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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       [quote][b]

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Hi Rich,



Is this late April First joke?



If not, i am really worried.

Checking magnetos is an item on the checklist.

It has been on any checklist of any piston aircraft ever. (Diesels no i  

know)



And is a no-go on failure.



Because:

If there is no mag-drop on one of the circuits:



There is either no spark from that circuit, and you would be flying  

risking your and other lives on one magneto.

Or the wire shorting the magneto with the key is open circuit, or the key  

switch is broken, which means it won't stop like yours. The open circuit  

wire and the broken keyswitch could short to ground everywhere, anytime,  

bringing back to the grace of the one working magneto. On the 914 it's  

extra bad, because the ignition circuits timing are not the same, and the  

engine will suffer from flying on one magneto. So before you fly again,  

check the wiring, check the switch, and correct the situation.



 	  Quote: 	
		   One thing about a Rotax they want to keep flying. I guess the plane just  

 was

 not ready to stop having fun today! 


	




It's not funny! Any airplane engine is designed to do just that.

Use your checklist, there is a basic one in the Europa Owners manual.



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen



-- 

workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane

http://www.europaowners.org/kit600

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Hi Folks,



Feel i have to add something more to this.



You (and i) are writing in a public forum.

Messages are probably stored "forever"



I just would hate to read in a NTSB report:



"The builder/pilot did not follow his checklist, as he admitted in a  

public forum"

not to speak about the consequences with insurance companies, lawsuits and  

the like.



Please folks, be careful what you put write and publish!



Think twice before you hit the send button,



My tuppence worth,



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen



-- 

workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane

http://www.europaowners.org/kit600

acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Rich

  

 You probably have a broken ignition (mag) wire. The  two wires (A and B ) terminate with each wire going to one of the  black modules mounted on top of the engine. They normally break where they come  out of the braided wire harness just before they enter the ignition  modules  I just had the same problem last week....2nd time in 700  hours.

  

 Jim Brown

 N398JB

 [quote]   ---

pbaker4(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

richard;

  

 I had the same problem with my 912 on a zodiac  601hd.

 there is a ground line from the electronic module.  If it is

 not connected or is broken somewhere.you cannot  cut

 it off with the switch. I stopped mine with the  choke.The 

 912 will shake a lot starting and stopping and that  can

 break the ground connection. using the master  switch

 will not affect the engine in any way.It connects  the starter

 to the battery to start the engine,,once started,  it will run

 on its on.

  

 paul baker,mooresville  nc

   [quote][b]

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Hi,  

   

I have seen similar syptoms many times before on aircraft using a standard ignition s/w as supplied by Aircraft Spruce.  Ie a key operated Off Mag 1 Mag 2 start type.  Fiddling with the s/w in the off position may stop the engine and prove the fault l,ocation.  

   

I hope this helps.  

   

Pete Jeffers  

       

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schultz

 Sent: 07 April 2007 04:49

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!  

   

   

Has anyone had problems with a 914 that won’t shut down? On a flight today everything started out fine until the first stop, On turning the switch to off the engine kept running, shutting the master off did not help either. The engine just continued to run. Turning off the fuel switch solved the problem. Restarting the engine showed no drop in RPM from one set of plugs. The flight home was uneventful but again the engine would not drop RPM’s from one set of plugs (closest to the off position?) and had to have the fuel cut off the kill the engine. I have not done any trouble shooting yet but hope to get back out to the airport tomorrow (Saturday) or early next week to see what has opened up in the system.   

   

Anyone have ideas at this early point?  

   

One thing about a Rotax they want to keep flying. I guess the plane just was not ready to stop having fun today! J  

   

Rich Schultz  

N262AE  

713-703-2156   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

     --  Release Date: 06/04/2007 21:30 

  

--

 06/04/2007 21:30

     [quote][b]

kpaviat(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Hey Rich! It is likely that one of the mag ground wires is not grounding properly when switched off. If you are using the typical ACS type switch (Cessna type) the connections on that unit are confusing. Several builders have had problems identifying the proper terminals on the back of the switch resulting in exactly what you describe.  Use an ohm meter to verify proper grounding.

 BTW the Rotax will not ignite if cranking RPM is below 220. Just the same, be very careful if hand turning the propeller when any ignition module is still “hot” (not grounded).

 kp      [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

Kim Prout wrote:

  If you are using the typical ACS type switch

 	  Quote: 	
		   (Cessna type) the connections on that unit are confusing. 

Kim
	


Might I add a couple of points to your advice?

Not only is it complicated but this switch has a history of failures.



 	  Quote: 	
		   BTW the Rotax will not ignite if cranking RPM is below 220. Just the 

 same, be very careful if hand turning the propeller when any ignition 

 module is still “hot” (not grounded).

 kp

There was a guy in the UK who hand started his 912 on a regular basis. 
	


Don't ask me why and I never saw it done but it does add emphasis to 

your warning

please give my regards to Paul and Kathy

Graham

SPurpura(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

You probably have a broken mag wire/bad connection, thus one side of the ignition is hot all the time and no rpm change when you do a mag check.

See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

In a message dated 4/7/2007 3:46:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, SPurpura(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  You probably have a broken mag wire/bad connection, thus one side of the ignition is hot all the time and no rpm change when you do a mag check. 	
 All,

  

 I've been giving this a little more thought. Let's say that the wire to Mag A was broken. When you do your mag check, you "should not" get an RPM drop when you switch off Mag A, but you "should" get an RPM drop when you switch off Mag B. This should tell you that the Mag A circuit has a problem. Am I thinking right?

  

  

 Mike Duane A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru 3300 

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable Prop



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: HELP my Rotax Won't Stop!

You might try the "bullet" connectors at the electronic control module.  It is fairly common for these connectors to oxidize.  Try cleaning the connectors.  Also, I have had the wire break under the insulation just at the connector.  Although I have not personally experienced it, I have head that while the engine/connector is cold, continuity is maintained, however, as the connector heats up continuity is lost.  As such, you will be unable to ground out the engine when you turn off the ignition. 

Regards,

 

Erich Trombley

Classic Mono 914 



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    [quote][b]

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