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Gasohol, gascolators

 
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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

At 03:38 PM 4/18/2007, henry.voris wrote:

Quote:
If you're worried about water contaminated gasohol carrying
moisture to the innards of your two-stroke engine and rusting the
bearings... it ain't gonna happen. There are plenty of bad things about
gasohol but this isn't one of them.
The ethanol in the gasohol not only attracts water, it forms a
little cage around each water molecule. To get them to separate takes
adding another alcohol and a two step distillation process....learn to
live with the lead (check plugs and for carbon more frequently).... If ya
gotta use gasohol install a gascolator so you can catch any problems
before they get to your carburetor...

That's interesting... my understanding has always been that methanol, at
least, is a problem for corrosion. Does ethanol react that much
differently? Or is it a problem mainly because methanol based fuels (e.g.
model glow fuel) is mostly methanol, rather than the 10% in gasohol? Then
there's the coming E85 fuel, which is 85% ethanol...

Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass
bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining
it. All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and
all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no
drain. I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my
Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter. Anybody
got any suggestions?

-Dana

do not archive

--
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.


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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

At 04:37 PM 4/18/07 -0400, you wrote:
Quote:


Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass
bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining
it. All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and
all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no
drain. I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my
Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter. Anybody
got any suggestions?


Dana,

If you are just interested in seeing if water is dropping out, there is a
small one available for motorcycles that can be purchased from:

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com

Part # Z90395 - $9.95

In eight years, I have never found water in the Bing float bowl. I drain my
five gallon tank in the spring and the most water I have found is between
the volume of a nickel or a dime. Water does accumulate in my gas cans. I
use four 2.5 gallon gas cans to transfer fuel. I always leave about a cup
of fuel in the cans. This keeps the water in the cans and along with enough
fuel so that when I put in oil, the oil is already some what premixed before
refilling at the gas station. I remove the water from the transfer cans
once a year.

For what it is worth.

Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN


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rlaird



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Maybe there's a reason why some people have moved away from glass bowls:

NTSB Identification: FTW95LA072
Accident occurred Saturday, December 24, 1994 in LA PORTE, TX
"LOSS OF ENGINE POWER DUE TO FUEL STARVATION AS RESULT OF THE FAILURE OF THE GLASS BOWL ON THE GASCOLATOR."

NTSB Identification: LAX95LA150
Accident occurred Friday, March 31, 1995 in EL CAJON, CA
"a loss of engine power due to an in-flight separation of the fuel system gascolator glass bowl resulting in a premature fuel exhaustion"

Ehhh, naw, maybe the NTSB was just looking for SOMEthing and could only come up with a broken glass bowl (probably caused by the crash).

Or not.

-- Robert

do not archive

On 4/18/07, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague < d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>

At 03:38 PM 4/18/2007, henry.voris wrote:

Quote:
If you're worried about water contaminated gasohol carrying
moisture to the innards of your two-stroke engine and rusting the
bearings... it ain't gonna happen. There are plenty of bad things about
gasohol but this isn't one of them.
The ethanol in the gasohol not only attracts water, it forms a
little cage around each water molecule. To get them to separate takes
adding another alcohol and a two step distillation process....learn to
live with the lead (check plugs and for carbon more frequently).... If ya
gotta use gasohol install a gascolator so you can catch any problems
before they get to your carburetor...

That's interesting... my understanding has always been that methanol, at
least, is a problem for corrosion. Does ethanol react that much
differently? Or is it a problem mainly because methanol based fuels ( e.g.
model glow fuel) is mostly methanol, rather than the 10% in gasohol? Then
there's the coming E85 fuel, which is 85% ethanol...

Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass
bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining
it. All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and
all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no
drain. I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my
Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter. Anybody
got any suggestions?

-Dana

[b]


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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com
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biglar



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

This subject came up a bit ago, and I'll repeat my comment from then - I have a Racor marine fuel filter/separator on my boat that has a replaceable filter element (like a standard oil filter) and a plastic (I think polycarbonate, but not certain) see-thru bowl. Easy to see water in the fuel, easy to change, not too expensive, and not too large. I got it because I was fishing in Baja and buying gas down there. Never did have a problem, but it's nice to be sure. Important on the water, more important on Mexican water, and really important in the air. Lar.

On 4/18/07, Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)> wrote: [quote]Maybe there's a reason why some people have moved away from glass bowls:

NTSB Identification: FTW95LA072
Accident occurred Saturday, December 24, 1994 in LA PORTE, TX
"LOSS OF ENGINE POWER DUE TO FUEL STARVATION AS RESULT OF THE FAILURE OF THE GLASS BOWL ON THE GASCOLATOR."

NTSB Identification: LAX95LA150
Accident occurred Friday, March 31, 1995 in EL CAJON, CA
"a loss of engine power due to an in-flight separation of the fuel system gascolator glass bowl resulting in a premature fuel exhaustion"

Ehhh, naw, maybe the NTSB was just looking for SOMEthing and could only come up with a broken glass bowl (probably caused by the crash).

Or not.

-- Robert

do not archive

On 4/18/07, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague < d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>

At 03:38 PM 4/18/2007, henry.voris wrote:

Quote:
If you're worried about water contaminated gasohol carrying
moisture to the innards of your two-stroke engine and rusting the
bearings... it ain't gonna happen. There are plenty of bad things about
gasohol but this isn't one of them.
The ethanol in the gasohol not only attracts water, it forms a
little cage around each water molecule. To get them to separate takes
adding another alcohol and a two step distillation process....learn to
live with the lead (check plugs and for carbon more frequently).... If ya
gotta use gasohol install a gascolator so you can catch any problems
before they get to your carburetor...

That's interesting... my understanding has always been that methanol, at
least, is a problem for corrosion. Does ethanol react that much
differently? Or is it a problem mainly because methanol based fuels ( e.g.
model glow fuel) is mostly methanol, rather than the 10% in gasohol? Then
there's the coming E85 fuel, which is 85% ethanol...

Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass
bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining
it. All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and
all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no
drain. I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my
Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter. Anybody
got any suggestions?

-Dana


[b]


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Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"
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rlaird



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Lar --

Is this the one:

http://reddenmarine.com/site/new-detail.cfm?id=RAC215R2

-- Robert

On 4/18/07, Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com (biglar(at)gogittum.com)> wrote:[quote] This subject came up a bit ago, and I'll repeat my comment from then - I have a Racor marine fuel filter/separator on my boat that has a replaceable filter element (like a standard oil filter) and a plastic (I think polycarbonate, but not certain) see-thru bowl. Easy to see water in the fuel, easy to change, not too expensive, and not too large. I got it because I was fishing in Baja and buying gas down there. Never did have a problem, but it's nice to be sure. Important on the water, more important on Mexican water, and really important in the air. Lar. [b]


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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com
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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

At 07:07 PM 4/18/2007, Jack B. Hart wrote:
Quote:
If you are just interested in seeing if water is dropping out, there is a
small one available for motorcycles that can be purchased from:

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com

Part # Z90395 - $9.95

Problem with that one (like the tractor parts) is no drain, unless you
remove the bowl each time... messy. The aircraft gascolator on my T-Craft
had a glass tube between a metal top and bottom, with the drain in the bottom.

-Dana
--
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.


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biglar



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:36 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Perty close, Robert, but that one's for a diesel. Mine has a smaller filter section, and a larger, blue colored bowl. The whole thing's a little bigger than my fist. Lar.

On 4/18/07, Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)> wrote: [quote]Lar --

Is this the one:

http://reddenmarine.com/site/new-detail.cfm?id=RAC215R2

-- Robert

On 4/18/07, Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com (biglar(at)gogittum.com) > wrote:
Quote:
This subject came up a bit ago, and I'll repeat my comment from then - I have a Racor marine fuel filter/separator on my boat that has a replaceable filter element (like a standard oil filter) and a plastic (I think polycarbonate, but not certain) see-thru bowl. Easy to see water in the fuel, easy to change, not too expensive, and not too large. I got it because I was fishing in Baja and buying gas down there. Never did have a problem, but it's nice to be sure. Important on the water, more important on Mexican water, and really important in the air. Lar.


Quote:

[b]


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Steve Boetto



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Just saw a really small gascolator at SnF. It was on a new version of an Easy Riser.
BTW, got to see John Moody fly an original Riser late yesterday in 25 mph winds.


The gascolator was available from Briggs and Stratton at a mower store.


Steve

See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]


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rowedenny(at)windstream.n
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

[quote] Just saw a really small gascolator at SnF. It was on a new version of an Easy Riser.
BTW, got to see John Moody fly an original Riser late yesterday in 25 mph winds.


The gascolator was available from Briggs and Stratton at a mower store.


Steve

Steve,
Did it have a sump drain and glass bowel?

Denny Rowe
[b]


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lcottrell



Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:51 am    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Why don't you guys build your own as per the instructions put on the list earlier in the year? The cost is two PVC caps, a short piece of PVC, two nylon fuel barbs, and a ?Murphy? drain valve for 17.50 that comes out the bottom of your airplane to drain it. I forgot you will also need a tube of thread sealer as well. Mine works well.
Larry, Oregon
do not archive (am I the only one using this feature?)
[quote] ---


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Paul Petty



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Dana,Larry all,

I made mine from a small block of aluminum and a certified sump. Mine can be sumped from the back of the plane at the lowest point in the system with the little sample cup like the spam can guys use Wink
do not archive


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Steve Boetto



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

In a message dated 4/19/2007 9:44:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rowedenny(at)windstream.net writes:
Quote:
Steve,
Did it have a sump drain and glass bowel?

Denny Rowe


yup

steve

See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Steve,
Please give me that part number again, I think I want one.

Denny
[quote] ---


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Steve Boetto



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators Reply with quote

Denny

no part #. Going back to show today, I will get more info

steve

See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]


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