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Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

I am working on a Two piece fiberglass cowl for the 601 with a corvair. I  have the mold made (but forgot my camera) but i will post a pic later today and  will also post a pic of the finished upper section that i am getting ready to  spray in about 10 min. The nose bowl in the pic here is one I and is a 2 piece  nose bowl.

 I'll keep you guys posted.

  

 Jeff  



See what's free at AOL.com.

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Very nice, looks remarkably like William  Wynne's:

  

 [img]cid:656083521(at)21042007-2357[/img]

  

 (www.flycorvair.com/nbowl.jpg)

  

 Any shots of you carving the plug? Something like  this:

  

 [img]cid:656083521(at)21042007-235E[/img]

  

 (www.flycorvair.com/601Feb2004.html)

  

 -- Craig

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Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Thats real interesting, I am planning on making one out of metal that looks like that also.



Talking to Chris Heintz at SnF, after hearing him talk about cleaning up the airflow on a 601 XL.  I asked him specifically about the radius of the leading edge of the holes in the WW design, 3/4" radius would be better was his reply.



In the Q & A after one of his presentations on design he was asked about cleaning up the 601 XL and he went right for the Cowling both exit and entrance.  He drew in detail why the point or tight radius will increase drag and even close the the orfice as speed increases.



FYI

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

In a message dated 4/21/2007 5:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Very nice, looks    remarkably like William Wynne's: 	


 

 That's because I used his nose bowl to make the the first mold. I  was thinking of renting the molds out so builders that have bought WW manual and  have the right to build their own stuff could save some money and build their  own and I would spray the gel coat and the release in the mold for you so you  would just have to lay it up. I'm not quite sure yet. 

  

 I feel the 2 piece cowling is an improvement on Williams nose bowl design  and just like his improvements that he sells I have the same right to improve on  someone's design. I will be flight testing this Cowl in a few weeks and after it  is flight proven I will either sell the cowling's or rent the mold  out.



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

The vans RV-3 has about the same design as Williams and it doesn't have a  problem and at much higher speeds. I think the inlets will not pose a problem in  a zenith with a corvair and William has many flight hours that has proven that.  I can't speak for what would happen on a O-235 or O-200 and it really doesn't  matter because it wouldn't fit anyway. We are going to make another version of  this cowling to fit a O-235 with oval inlets to make the cowling wider so it  will clear. But that's in a few weeks from now.

  

 Jeff

  

 do not archive



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

I think what you have done is morally wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Fritz



Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:

  [quote]      In a message dated 4/21/2007 5:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:

   	  Quote: 	
		  Very nice, looks remarkably like William Wynne's: 	


  

  That's because I used his nose bowl to make the the first mold. I was thinking of renting the molds out so builders that have bought WW manual and          Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?

 Check out [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-]new cars at Yahoo! Autos.[/url]  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

>  That's because I  used his nose bowl to make the the first mold. 

  

 Ah, I missed this in your earlier  posts.

  

 >  I was thinking of renting  the molds out so builders that have bought WW manual and have the right to build  their own stuff could save some money and build their own and I would spray the  gel coat and the release in the mold for you so you would just have to lay it  up. I'm not quite sure yet. 

  

  I think you should  re-read the "Product Rights Agreement" you signed when you bought your  conversion manual from William:

  

 "6. Buyer will not  receive any form of compensation for work related to information, parts, or  products. The sole exception being the resale of a single engine produced from a  single Conversion Manual."

www.flycorvair.com/liability.html



  



  > ... I have the same right  to improve on someone's design. I will be flight testing this Cowl in a few  weeks and after it is flight proven I will either sell the cowling's or rent the  mold out. 

  

 I don't recall William making a mold from  someone else's design. I do recall him saying he would not reprint  information from the Pietenpol conversion as it belonged to Bernie's heirs.  Heck, William won't even reprint the torque pattern for Corvairs that Richard  Finch invented. Instead he recommends you buy a copy of Finch's  book.

  

 Odd that you haven't posted your plans on  the Corvaircraft list. Maybe it is because you are no longer welcome  there.

  

 Or maybe this is another April Fools  joke?

  

 "If anyone needs the old style prop hub or a  nose bowl either a 1 piece or a 2 piece please contact me off list."

www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=2&hit=2

  

 "Ok Guys let me start off saying APRIL  FOOLS"

www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=0&hit=10



 William seems to think you had had second  thought about this:

  

 <quote from April 7th>

 Last week we heard from Jeff who proposed  making copies of our parts. Although Jeff later claimed it was an April Fool's  joke, the issue was really settled when I directly called Jeff and spoke with  him on the telephone. He'd made the original post when he was angry, but in  conversation I pointed out that he'd been our guest at Corvair College #10, and  proposing to make jigs and tooling directly off our parts and reselling them was  really a bad move. Not to mention he'd signed our standard product rights  agreement. It's a plain language agreement that forbids doing just what Jeff  proposed when he was angry. He conceded this, and after a friendly hour long  phone call, he chose to bow out of the situation by claiming it was an April  Fool's joke. Nobody's being coerced into not making Corvair parts. Reasonable  people understand that it's not ethical to make clones of our products. Even  Jeff understood this. This is a good example of how direct talk and a phone call  solved 95% of these issues.

 <end quote>

www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=0&hit=2

  

 I know you will post a rebuttal to all this  but I won't bother replying - your actions speak for themselves.

  

 As you are completely morally blind I  know my words will have no effect on you. I just hope they will influence any  potential customers to avoid you. As a practical matter I don't know why anyone  would trust their life to parts from you.

  

 Give my regards to Rhonda.

  

 -- Craig

[quote] [b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Nope no April fools joke

  

 And This list isn't run by Mark either. I don't really care about the  corvaircraft list it is just a WW list and if anyone has an idea that isn't  Williams they are flamed. 

  

  I Will sell the cowl and I don't think it is in  any way infringing on William. If you want a 2 piece cowl then go to  William and buy your self one. 

 I never said I was going to make a profit from selling the 1 or 2  piece nose bowl I said I might rent out the mold and I did say might. Some of us  here can't afford a 400.00 nose bowl or a 600.00 prop hub so this could just be  a nice alternative.

  

 Flame away I can take it but several have emailed me wanting to know about  the cowling and if they want to stay anonymous that is fine with me.

  

 As I said before my # is 502-644-8123 but most just like to flame here  but My cowl is simply an improvement and if some can't deal with that find the  delete key.

  

 Jeff



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Let me get this straight. This is the same "gentleman" who a while back was  flaming WW  on this and other lists because he hadn't received the parts he  had ordered, which he needed to complete a airplane which he had already sold  for comercial gain, and was building another probably with the same intent. As I  recall he got a one piece cowl from William, and now he has  apparently pulled a plug from it and intends to profit from his illegal  copyright infringement. I will either order a cowl from William, or build my own  when I reach that stage of the game. When I complete and fly my 601 someday, I  will be proud of what I have done and not have to hide my face from William when  he looks at my plane. Dan

 [quote]   ---

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

In a message dated 4/22/2007 11:54:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Let me get this straight. This is the same "gentleman" who a while back    was flaming WW  on this and other lists because he hadn't received the    parts he had ordered, which he needed to complete an airplane which he had    already sold for commercial gain, and was building another probably with the    same intent. As I recall he got a one piece cowl from William, and now he has    apparently pulled a plug from it and intends to profit from his illegal    copyright infringement. I will either order a cowl from William, or build my    own when I reach that stage of the game. When I complete and fly my 601    someday, I will be proud of what I have done and not have to hide my face from    William when he looks at my plane. Dan

	


 

 You got it sorta right Dan. First of all You have every right to buy your  one piece Nose bowl from William but if you want a 2 piece cowl you will be shit  outa luck. Most if not all Williams products are improvements on others and this  is no different. At first I was gonna build it the way William built his but I  didn't like the way the top hinges leak water all over the engine. If you own a  hanger and will never get caught in the rain than by all means follow Williams  design but this 601 will be kept outside and with my new and improved cowl it  will keep the engine warm and dry.

 And yes I had a nearly complete 601 I sold but couldn't afford to finish so  I had to sell it to a very nice man who asked me if I could assist him in  finishing his airplane and I said I would be glad to. So to say I sold it for  gain is not true but I guess you have more money than brains so you will never  understand how you it is impossible for some builder to shell out 600. for a hub  or 450.00 for a nose bowl. I never said I would make a profit from the nose  bowls I said I might rent them out so builders that have bought Williams manual  and have the RIGHT to build their own nosebowl now can. Hell zenith will rent or  loan you the jigs to make you ribs for a scratch build. So get off your high  horse and read.

 One other point I need to make is that after an email from a list member  and talking to my neighbor who is an aero space engineer I have yet another  improvement on the Nose bowl and that is I am adding more radius on the inlets  so in reality Williams nose bowl was the start of making a better nose bowl  which will create less drag and offer more airflow to the engine. But since the  only one that can improve others products I guess you will have to wait until  you can buy one from him but then that would then be my idea huh?

  

 Jeff



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Very well said Dan,  I agree 100%.    I have talked to William W. several times on the phone to help me in my decision making on deciding which engine I will be installing in my XL.

   

  I look forward to one day to meeting WW in person, being proud of my accomplishments and telling him "thanks" in person.

   

  Fritz



Dan <hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net> wrote:

  [quote]        Let me get this straight. This is the same "gentleman" who a while back was flaming WW  on this and other lists because he hadn't received the parts he had ordered, which he needed to complete a airplane which he had already sold for comercial gain, and was building another probably with the same intent. As I recall he got a one piece  cowl from William, and now he has apparently pulled a plug from it and intends to profit from his illegal copyright infringement. I will either order a cowl from William, or build my own when I reach that stage of the game. When I complete and fly my 601 someday, I will be proud of what I have done and not have to hide my face from William when he looks at my plane. Dan

  [quote]  ---

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Such a blatant lie seems like a poor way to drum up business. It is well  known that WW designed and offered the two-piece nosebowl some time back and  still currently offers it. I have a WW one-piece, but for a long time, since  it's not yet installed, I've been considering changing to the 2-piece, but  if so, I will certainly wait for one from WW.

  

     Robin in AR

     601XL Zen-Vair, N601ZV reserved

 [quote]   ---

LHusky(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

I went to the FWF Corvair class held in Cloverdale, CA last fall and WW was  there and had brought a 2 piece cowl to put on the plane we were working  on.  Looked like a very fine piece of work.  WW has had these 2 piece  cowls for some time now. 

  

 Larry



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Once again I have to ask you to read. I am not selling the 1 or the 2 piece nose bowl of WW and the key word is nose bowl. What I am making is the complete 2 piece Cowling and william doesn't make that. And if you would have read my previous posts you would find that even chris from zenith says the radius of the inlets should be bigger and that the smaller radius inlets reduce air flow to the engine and increase drag. So I am going to make another mold from scratch with a 1 inch radius on the inlets and also make a oval design nose bowl for   the lycoming and the cont. 

 

   

  

 --

afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

You guys are so quick to jump on someone you are confusing a nose bowl for a COWLING.

 

   

  

 --

hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

I don't think we are quick to jump on someone at  all, or confusing anything. You uploaded pictures of a mold you made from a part  you purchased from William and admitted to doing so. You also state that you  intend to rent the mold, or sell the cowlings. No matter what you are now  claiming the fact of the matter is that you have stollen Williams design, with  the intent to profit from it. If you had decided to build a plug of your own  design from scratch and market it as such there would have been no problem, but  that is not the route you have taken.You are trying to pass off your illegal  activities by saying you are offering improvements, such as 2 piece cowlings  instead of 1 piece(William offers the 2 piece as has been stated by another  poster), and improved airflow by increasing radius. You also state that you are  trying to start a builder assist program. I assume that you are planning on  making a profit in this endevor and wonder what other designs you are going to  steal from William to help line your pockets? And do you plan on displaying the  same honesty and integrity that you have shown to us in your dealings with  potential customers? I for one think I will keep my money in my pocket.  Dan.

 [quote]   ---

afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

William does not have a 2 piece cowling. And since I am making new molds from scratch to increase the radiuses I guess by your post you wont have a problem with that? And I always said I might rent them out 

 

  and if you own the manual you have the right to use them don't you? 

  

 --

hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Funny that when I visit his website he has a  picture of the 2 piece nosebowl, and describes it in detail. If you were making  a newly designed nosebowl it would be fine, but you are apparently just  reworking his design and trying to hide your dishonesty by saying you are  improving it. I think that most of us on this list see you for what you are  so I won't waste any more of my breath on you and will get back to airplanes and  real airplane builders. Dan. 

 [quote]   ---

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

Dan

 Do you even know the difference between a nose bowl and a cowling? 

 let me fill you in

  A nose bowl only covers the nose of the airplane and WW has one of  those on his website for sale. I am not selling that one. I am making a 2 piece  complete cowl that covers the entire engine so it isn't anything william sells.  and as for the radius improvement that will have to be built from a scratch  built mold so it wouldn't be a copy and I am thinking of doing oval intake holes  because a number of ppl have stated they like them better.

  

  

 Funny that when I visit his website he has a  picture of the 2 piece nosebowl, and describes it in detail. If you were making  a newly designed nosebowl it would be fine, but you are apparently just  reworking his design and trying to hide your dishonesty by saying you are  improving it. I think that most of us on this list see you for what you are  so I won't waste any more of my breath on you and will get back to airplanes and  real airplane builders. Dan. 

 [quote]   [quote]     ---

skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: Two piece cowl for the 601 with corvair

OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK we all get the picture can we please quit  this endless discussion. 

  

 I see everyones point and I am sure that others on here are in agreement  one way or the other.

  

 The point is, enough......................

  

 Lets get back to building.

  

 David Mikesell

23597 N. Hwy 99

Acampo, CA 95220

209-224-4485

skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com (skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com)

www.skyguynca.com

   [quote][b]

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