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RV Advice, one leg flyer
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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

One thing to keep in mind is that the parking brake by Matco that is

commonly used on RV's is for holding pressure that already has been

applied, IE it is an open and close valve not a pressure piston for

stopping, so you would have to use something to apply the pressure.

Dan

N289DT

RV10E 



--

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Easy enough with the two lever hand controls.

Tim



[quote] --

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

I agree, just that you could not use the Matco valve to accomplish it,

because it is an open/close valve to hold the pressure that already has

been applied through the pedals.

Dan 



--

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

I am going to do a flight review this week for a local pilot that has  

hand controls  in his RV-6, Some of you may have met Carl Hays

or read the articles about him and how he designed the control system 

for his RV-6. He is unable to use his legs at all.It has two control bars

that control rudder and brakes pushing both sticks forward controls 

brakes, pushing left stick forward is left rudders etc. This operation 

is all

done with his right hand.Technically this qualifies for a  dual control 

system as he does have a joystick installed on the right side  and the

 rudder brake bars are in the center of the airplane so if need I can 

control the airplane.



Jerry

Tim Bryan wrote:



[quote]



Easy enough with the two lever hand controls.

Tim



  



>--

carlbell(at)gforcecable.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Thanks Bob, 



Below the knee you can do toe brakes, above the knee just isn't consistent

or powerful enough.  I have been given some really good ideas and advice and

I think I have solved most of the issues for a few minor modifications to

make it work safely with a push-pull rudder control and a neat hand brake

set up from the dune buggy world, but I would still love to find a guy with

an AK and a nose or tail dragger RV and see what they are flying. Regards

Carl



--

carlbell(at)gforcecable.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Darrell,



Peg leg sounds like the guy I'm looking for, does he have an email or can

you get his phone number?  BTW they call me stump!  Where is Taylor Airport?

Thanks Carl

--

carlbell(at)gforcecable.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Dan,



I don't know what they use in the Cherokees, but you can pull on it and it

loads both mains, then if you push the button it locks the brake in the

pulled position and acts as a parking brake.  If need be I'll get one of

them from Piper.  I am not familiar with the Matco, but I will check it out

and see what is available. Thanks for the heads up. Carl



--

lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Carl,



I will get you two guys together. We can take some

pics and he has the catalog which shows the product he

used... Very nice set-up for sure!



Darrell

--- Carl Bell <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>

 

 

 Darrell,

 

 Peg leg sounds like the guy I'm looking for, does he

 have an email or can

 you get his phone number?  BTW they call me stump! 

 Where is Taylor Airport?

 Thanks Carl

 

 

 --

lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

I just emailed Jim "Pegleg", should hear something by

tomorrow. I have a key to his hanger and if he wants

me to, I will take some pics for you.



Darrell

--- Carl Bell <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>

 

 

 Darrell,

 

 Peg leg sounds like the guy I'm looking for, does he

 have an email or can

 you get his phone number?  BTW they call me stump! 

 Where is Taylor Airport?

 Thanks Carl

 

 

 --

carlbell(at)gforcecable.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Darrell, where is Taylor ? Thx Carl



--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

I previously owned a Cherokee 140, and it had the brake you are talking

about. The one from Matco is what most Rv'ers use, and it only holds the

pressure after you apply it from the pedals. If you could modify the

Cherokee, or use the sand rail differential braking I think that would

be the best.

My 10 should be up and flying in the next month or so, and shortly there

after I will gladly come down and give you a demo ride, so you can see

the 10 with an Eggenfellner in action.

I am only a short hope away up in PA.

Dan Lloyd

N289DT RV10E



--

lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Taylor Texas Airport just outside of Round Rock, Texas

East of town...



Darrell

--- Carl Bell <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>

 

 Darrell, where is Taylor ? Thx Carl

 

 --

carlbell(at)gforcecable.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Dan,



Well I would love to see and fly in the 10 and flying it is a good way to

wring out the little bugs.  We have a guest room and hopefully I'll have a

good start on the 7A. Regards Carl



--

deruiteraircraftservices(
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

 	  Quote: 	
		   For differential braking, there have been aircraft that were built with a

 selector valve of sorts incorporated into the rudder control system and 

 one

 separate brake master cylinder.


	


the De Havilland DH 104 Dove/Devon has such a system. The brakes however are 

pneumatic. Give full rudder in the direction you wish to go and push the 

lever on the yoke, it's quite weird at the start as your aircraft sounds a 

bit like a 18 wheeler when you release the brakes!

Incidently the gear and flaps also operate on pneumatics, the only hydraulic 

system operates the windscreen wipers!



do not archive

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

Hi Carl-



Sorry for the 'late' reply;  I get the digest version of the list once a

day.  Makes things less dynamic but keeps my ISP from freaking out over the

volume of traffic that sometimes occurs.



 	  Quote: 	
		   If there isn't room

going toward the firewall, I'll just put the pulley toward the spar. 


	


I believe that would put you in the position of 'pushing' a cable.  



 	  Quote: 	
		  Then

I'm thinking I will omit the toe brakes on my side and weld a tube at

midpoint on the pedal for pushing and a hoop over the top of my foot for

pulling (or maybe the bicycle clip) and 2 hand brakes for stopping by using

them together or independently for differential braking. Do you think this

could do the trick? 


	


Well, it certainly could, but the loop will need to have enough slack to be

able to insert your foot.  This same slack will create slop in your control

system.  Next, your pelvis is blocked from movement by the seat back when

pushing, but when pulling I suspect you hip will twist to some extent. 

This will introduce more slop into the system.  Another point is that you

are very much stronger pushing that pulling with your foot.  This

differential will cause you some issues.  Of course, when pulling, you will

be applying force through a couple additional pulleys.  This will introduce

a small amount of additional system friction, or drag, into the weak side

operation.  The last item is human factors.  You already know how to push

to turn.  If your new system requires you to pull to turn, there may well

come a time when things start happening quickly, the law of Primacy kicks

in, and you have a problem.  Were it me, I'd really pursue the bike pedal

and push/push option over the push/pull option.



Two hand brakes could work well indeed, but I'd recommend having them

configured such that it'd be very unlikely to accidentally slip and 'drop'

one at a critical time.

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  Most are saying I should go with a nose dragger and

preferably a 9A which almost lands itself. 


	


How (unfortunately) predictable.  I wouldn't listen to the nay sayers. 

What is the real issue?  Straight and level is straight and level.  You

want acro?  the 9 is out.  All these planes fly much the same until the

wheels touch.  The TD's are TD's, but they are on the civil end of the TD

spectrum.  Recall all the responses from folks who know of -6's configured

for one or NO legs.  I think most would admit that if there is any

difference in ground handling characteristics in RV's, the 6's are at the

sportier end.  Get the plane you want, and master whatever you need to

master.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I hate to give up and occasional

roll or loop, but I really need the plane for X country to visit my kids

scattered about the US and of course I love flying and building things

(RC).
	




7's and 8's are faster than 9's, even upside down.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I will draw this up and send it to Van with all the Caveats' just to make

sure that tying the pedals together won't create a problem with flutter or

something. 


	


What you're proposing won't have any more effect on flutter characteristics

than 2 feet on the pedals.  It would be interesting to see what the legal

dept has to say about your ideas, though.  Historically the company's

public position has been that mods are highly discouraged.  Personally, I'd

seek out independent critique of my plans.  There's an awful lot of

credentialed expertise on this list, mostly lurking.  As is generally the

case though, those of us who are free with advice are charging precisely

what it's worth!



 	  Quote: 	
		  Any thoughts on nose wheel versus tail wheel? 


	


No.  It was always a given for me.  ; - )   Since (by definition) it's the

things we don't contemplate that surprise us, I suppose I'd consider ground

handling, like getting the plane in and out of the hangar.  Does your

prosthesis impact your ability to drag a plane around?  What about cockpit

entry and loading?  The TD's sit nose up, and the ND's sit pretty level. 

It's a higher step up to the ND's wing from the ground.  Things like that

might have a significant impact on the ultimate enjoyment of your creation.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks again for

your advice. 


	


My pleasure.  Despite the occasional furball here on the list, we're all

here to learn and share what we have learned.



glen matejcek

aerobubba(at)earthlink.net

carlbell(at)gforcecable.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: RV Advice, one leg flyer

I want to thank everyone for there help on this topic, it has been

invaluable.  The list ("you all" is how we say it in the south) has provided

me with some great information including:



	1) Picture of how two amputees accomplish flying with one leg,

including a castor on a shoe to dual hand brakes and a push-pull rudder, and

an article about a double amputee doing it with some special hardware flying

an RV4.



	2) It gave me the sense that I can pick the plane I want and find a

way to modify it to make it work safely.



	3) A belief in a great community of builders that will readily share

there experiences



As an outcome I will go fly with a CFI in a tail dragger and a nose dragger

and see which one works for my handicap and order a kit.  I know it will be

a 7, with a Lycoming type engine, so I'm almost there and can order some

more tools and the tail kit.



Thanks again, Carl

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