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jill(at)m-14p.com
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: 2 cents on uncontrolled fields |
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Group,
I have been reading the discussion on the near misses this morning.
First off, I am not military. I am not a high time pilot either. My
first solo flight was into Bradley Sky Ranch in North Pole, AK - a
gravel airstrip, uncontrolled field. As I was landing my Aeronca Chief
with no radios or lights, there was another aircraft landing the other
way. Having no option for a go around, I chopped power, landed and
pulled the airplane off into the weeds. When I worked out at Gesoco in
Swanton, we had a group of ultra-lighters known as the "Fright Boys".
One had to ALWAYS be on alert. Every field I flew off of in Florida
was uncontrolled: Kay Larkin, Eagle's Nest, Flagler. I can assure you
that "spammers" do not know what you guys are talking about. My follow
up is "Why should they???". I may piss some people off here, but I see
a level of arrogance in thinking that "civilians" or "Spammers" must
tow the line when you are in town. I am trying to play devil's
advocate, here. If a group of you travel to Shakhty, Russia, go to the
outdoor market and ask for a fresh loaf of rye bread in English, should
that little old lady with the babushka on her head be expected to
understand you? As with any good relationship, clear communication is
the key. These "spammers" right or wrong were probably doing what they
always do at that airport. I think a bit of prudence could go a long
way. I think Mark has made some very good points.
The other night we had a deputy speaking to a citizen's group. He made
the comment about "you civilians". Carl quickly asked him what branch
of the military the sheriff's department belonged to. The deputy's
response is that was they way they were trained to think. Joe Citizen
does not see it that way and he is correct. I don't think you are
doing anyone a service by looking down your noses at "spammers".
Remember, you were there once and probably did some pretty dumb things.
In conclusion, I would like to ask what would have been the probable
legal outcome had there been a midair in either situation? Who would
have been at fault? How much liability does the group and individuals
have in this situation? Is there any legal counsel with RPA that
would like to offer up an opinion?
Jill
M-14P, Incorporated
4905 Flightline Drive
Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
(928)-681-4400
Fax(928)681-4404
www.m-14p.com
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john(at)nielsenford.com
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: 2 cents on uncontrolled fields |
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Very accurate observation Jill. When in unfamiliar uncontrolled
airports and hear an IFR practicing pilot call a waypoint that is only
published in the approach plate, I ask the pilot to reference position
from approach end of intended runway. "Inbound on the ILS Rwy 22 at
MAGGS" means nothing to a VFR pilot in the area, but "over the tank
farms at 2000 feet on 3 mile final to rwy 22" tells all were to look.
John Nielsen
Jill Gernetzke wrote:
| Quote: |
Group,
I have been reading the discussion on the near misses this morning.
First off, I am not military. I am not a high time pilot either. My
first solo flight was into Bradley Sky Ranch in North Pole, AK - a
gravel airstrip, uncontrolled field. As I was landing my Aeronca Chief
with no radios or lights, there was another aircraft landing the other
way. Having no option for a go around, I chopped power, landed and
pulled the airplane off into the weeds. When I worked out at Gesoco in
Swanton, we had a group of ultra-lighters known as the "Fright Boys".
One had to ALWAYS be on alert. Every field I flew off of in Florida was
uncontrolled: Kay Larkin, Eagle's Nest, Flagler. I can assure you that
"spammers" do not know what you guys are talking about. My follow up is
"Why should they???". I may piss some people off here, but I see a
level of arrogance in thinking that "civilians" or "Spammers" must tow
the line when you are in town. I am trying to play devil's advocate,
here. If a group of you travel to Shakhty, Russia, go to the outdoor
market and ask for a fresh loaf of rye bread in English, should that
little old lady with the babushka on her head be expected to understand
you? As with any good relationship, clear communication is the key.
These "spammers" right or wrong were probably doing what they always do
at that airport. I think a bit of prudence could go a long way. I
think Mark has made some very good points.
The other night we had a deputy speaking to a citizen's group. He made
the comment about "you civilians". Carl quickly asked him what branch
of the military the sheriff's department belonged to. The deputy's
response is that was they way they were trained to think. Joe Citizen
does not see it that way and he is correct. I don't think you are doing
anyone a service by looking down your noses at "spammers". Remember,
you were there once and probably did some pretty dumb things.
In conclusion, I would like to ask what would have been the probable
legal outcome had there been a midair in either situation? Who would
have been at fault? How much liability does the group and individuals
have in this situation? Is there any legal counsel with RPA that would
like to offer up an opinion?
Jill
M-14P, Incorporated
4905 Flightline Drive
Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
(928)-681-4400
Fax(928)681-4404
www.m-14p.com
|
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isaligman(at)saligman.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: 2 cents on uncontrolled fields |
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It is great to see everyone with an opinion and the real answer lies somewhere in the safe balance of them all.
Is anyone able to to go through all the near miss notes and create an article, for the newsletter and possibly leading to a "best practices" or further YAK Standardization, form manual etc. .
If we had a best practices, or standardized way of operating in uncontrolled fields, published, copyable onto an 81/2 x 11 sheet of paper for dissemination at or prior to fly ins etc. it may give the non-formation pilots who have an interest something to learn about and increase awareness of our aircraft in that world.
All of the effort going into this and some of the other topics is lost after the topic dies down. Does anyone have the time to catalog it.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman(at)Saligman.com (isaligman(at)Saligman.com)
[quote][b]
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