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High Oil Temps
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

Need some advise.  On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT for the day (about an hour flight).  We hung out for the day, went to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed home. 

 We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off.  Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north.  While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F.  I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off.  

 I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect.  Thought a bird or something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking about anything else I might have missed.  

 I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around.  I really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal.  So the four of us loaded up and we were off.  I typically climb around 100 to 105.  On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210.  Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190.  These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.   

 I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil temps have changed.  This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots.  Sure my climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same.  All I can think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.  

  

 Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often?  Where does your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and 2400? 

 I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others. 

 

 

Scott Schmidt 

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com 



 [quote][b]

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:16 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

"Scott, I will be very interested in your progress on this issue. I live 

in Phoenix, and high temperatures is a fact of life. talking w/ fellows 

(at) EAA chpt mtgs. reveals that the RV6,7,8" guys all buy the biggest and 

most efficient oil cooler they can. I was told of one that was 20% more 

efficient than the one that Van's ships, I don't recall it's name/number 

but could find out if you need the info. Some have had success mounting 

the oil cooler directly behind the #4 cyl on the baffling as opposed to 

the firewall. I doubt there's room enough on the -10 for this to work.



Here's a quote from my Lycoming Operators Manual O-540,IO-540 Series: 

Section 3 page 3-9 /" Oil temperature: The maximum permissible oil 

temperature is 245 deg F (118C). for maximum engine life, desired oil 

temperature should be maintained between 165 deg F (73.8C) and 200F 

(93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions ".



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/

/

Scott Schmidt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Need some advise. 

 *

 *

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

I have the same interest in this as Deems does. At OSH last year John Cox in a very fatherly and convicted manner told me I would have to deal with this problem being located in the Southwest, Las Vegas to be exact and similar if not a bit cooler than Deems in Phoenix. John reminded me that the RV-10 was designed and tested in Oregon, in obviously cooler temps. Deems has the James cowl so it will be interesting to see his performance in the cooling department. I have the stock Van's supplied cooler which will be changed if there is a better model out there. When Russ Daves was out here last year Bob Kaufmann, John Erickson and myself were lucky to get some -10 stick time. Russ asked John at one point to lower the nose to keep the temps down on a few of the touch and goes, I didn't do any take offs or landings but provided the ballast in the back seat. Hopefully I will feel better (worked the night shift then off to the airport early) on his next trip to get some worthwhile stick time short of flying us to and from the practice area and a few steep turns.



Rick S.

40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

Scott,



Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.  

OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs.  On climb out 

(1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205.  It came down to 185 as soon as I 

lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude.



I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference.  On hot days (75+) 

before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the 

210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing.  With the louvers I'm seeing 

185.  Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot 

hot days to keep the oil temp below 200.  Before adding the louvers my cowl 

was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm.  I think having a 

larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped  lower 

the oil temp.



Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas.



Mark (N410MR)





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: RV-10 List <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: High Oil Temps

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)



Need some advise.  On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT 

for the day (about an hour flight).  We hung out for the day, went to the 

car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed 

home.

We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. 

  Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south 

over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. 

  While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F.  I have never seen them 

that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my 

ducting had fallen off.

I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect.  Thought a bird or 

something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler 

but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night 

while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking 

about anything else I might have missed.

I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around.  I really 

had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal.  So the 

four of us loaded up and we were off.  I typically climb around 100 to 105. 

  On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210.  Once I was 

at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190.  

These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps 

around 170 to 180.

I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the 

winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil 

temps have changed.  This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 

people but I was still climbing at 105 knots.  Sure my climb rate may be 

lower but the cooling should be the same.  All I can think of is the angle 

of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.



Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often?  Where does your oil 

temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and 

2400?

I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before 

adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.



Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com


	


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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

This one will be interesting to follow.  It's a tough spot to be in...

not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as

normal.  Makes it hard to figure out what to do.



For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,

and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here.  But,

I also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our

trips, even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was

even in the SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on

extended climbs.



Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS,

I do see that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my

highest Oil Temp was 197, and that was just a couple of log

entries and then it was back in the 180's.   Then looking at

another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that

was the Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout

I hit 208.  That same flight stabilized in the low to mid

190's.   But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the

recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so

if you peak out on climb at something higher but still

well under the 245 degree range, I don't know that I'd worry.

I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe

220 to get an earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS

limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220.   Just

like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to

run that high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or

something like that.



Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything

that leads me to believe that we have anything to worry

about from a design perspective.  The oil temps are usually

towards the middle end of that temp range and I'd pretty

much call them "perfect".  I wouldn't want it to run any

cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where

I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost

never anywhere near 200.



Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.

Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview,

which is FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all

of your flights for a while and you can check out what the

temps were all the time.   It's a great tool for just

this type of thing.  It also includes a GAMI tool so you

can flow match your injectors and it will analyze to show

you the spread.  Good stuff!



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Scott Schmidt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Need some advise.  On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT 

 for the day (about an hour flight).  We hung out for the day, went to 

 the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then 

 headed home.

 We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took 

 off.  Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off 

 flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing 

 to the north.  While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F.  I have 

 never seen them that high and I was right over the airport so I landed 

 and thought my ducting had fallen off. 

 I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect.  Thought a bird or 

 something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil 

 cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late 

 at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second 

 head thinking about anything else I might have missed. 

 I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around.  I 

 really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked 

 normal.  So the four of us loaded up and we were off.  I typically climb 

 around 100 to 105.  On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed 

 at 210.  Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to 

 stabilize around 190.  These still seem higher than I have had in the 

 past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180.  

 I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in 

 the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only 

 my oil temps have changed.  This was the warmest weather I have flown 

 in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots.  Sure my climb 

 rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same.  All I can think 

 of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into 

 the oil cooler. 

  

 Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often?  Where does your 

 oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 

 19.5 and 2400?

 I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before 

 adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.

  

 

 Scott Schmidt

 

 scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

 

 *

 

 

 *

pilotdds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

My temps ran about 175 in the winter.I became alarmed when an oat of 85 and a fully loaded airplane yielded cruise oil temps of 207.I installed the oil cooler from airflow systems and saw an 8 degree drop as well as much quicker cooling when leveling out for cruise.I did accurate side by side testing and saw a noteworthy improvment.It frequently excedes 100 here in the summer.Intallation is simple.

    

  

 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

Before I get jumped, I'd like to add:  You guys in the Southwest

and Texas may want to do something to yours, just because you

spend a majority of your time in hot conditions.  If you're

someone who only visits those areas, just using good technique

like dropping the nose for a faster climb speed might be

all it will take to keep you happy.  I'd caution the more

northerly builder against going too far to cool things unnecessarily

because you do want good warm oil in flight, and if you cool it

too far, you're going to have to make accomodations for when

you fly in your cooler or more normal lower temps.  You don't

want your oil temps too low, and from what I see, I

more often come close to the low end of the 165-200 range

than I do the high end.  Your mileage will vary depending on

your geography.  If I lived in the desert and thought I could

survive there, I would probably increase my oil cooling but

I'd carry a plate or put on adjustable louvres on my cooler...or

maybe even add cowl exit area and then add cowl flaps.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 This one will be interesting to follow.  It's a tough spot to be in...

 not high enough to seriously scare you, but not nearly as low as

 normal.  Makes it hard to figure out what to do.

 

 For what it's worth, I seem to hold in the 165-180 range in the winters,

 and pretty much almost always about 185 in the summers here.  But,

 I also never saw any alarming oil temps when we were on any of our

 trips, even though we did fly on some hot days....some of that was

 even in the SouthWest, and NorthWest in the summer, and some was on

 extended climbs.

 

 Looking into some of the logs that I downloaded from my EIS,

 I do see that on the trip to Oregon, (hot), it looks like my

 highest Oil Temp was 197, and that was just a couple of log

 entries and then it was back in the 180's.   Then looking at

 another trip last spring/summer on a hot day (I think that

 was the Yellowstone trip), I do see that on one climbout

 I hit 208.  That same flight stabilized in the low to mid

 190's.   But, keep in mind from Deem's post that the

 recommended specs 165-200 in level flight cruise.....so

 if you peak out on climb at something higher but still

 well under the 245 degree range, I don't know that I'd worry.

 I guess I myself would reduce that limit from 245 to maybe

 220 to get an earlier warning, and maybe have my Chelton EIS

 limit programmed to go yellow at 200 and red at 220.   Just

 like the CHT limit is officially 500, but you'd be nuts to

 run that high.....so my yellow is 400 and red is 415 or

 something like that.

 

 Again though, when I pour over my logs, I don't see anything

 that leads me to believe that we have anything to worry

 about from a design perspective.  The oil temps are usually

 towards the middle end of that temp range and I'd pretty

 much call them "perfect".  I wouldn't want it to run any

 cooler, and except for those brief peaks during climbs where

 I topped 200, if you look at my x/c line graph, it's almost

 never anywhere near 200.

 

 Keep watching it for some flights and see how it goes.

 Since you have a Chelton system, I know you can use EGview,

 which is FANTASTIC software....download your logs from all

 of your flights for a while and you can check out what the

 temps were all the time.   It's a great tool for just

 this type of thing.  It also includes a GAMI tool so you

 can flow match your injectors and it will analyze to show

 you the spread.  Good stuff!

 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 

 

 Scott Schmidt wrote:

> Need some advise.  On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab 

> UT for the day (about an hour flight).  We hung out for the day, went 

> to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and 

> then headed home.

> We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took 

> off.  Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off 

> flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began 

> climbing to the north.  While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 

> F.  I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport 

> so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off. I took off the 

> cowl, and everything looked perfect.  Thought a bird or something else 

> might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler but it 

> looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night 

> while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head 

> thinking about anything else I might have missed. I put the cowling 

> back on and took off by myself and flew around.  I really had to climb 

> slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal.  So the four of 

> us loaded up and we were off.  I typically climb around 100 to 105.  

> On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210.  Once I 

> was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize 

> around 190.  These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am 

> use to temps around 170 to 180.  I typically just fly with my wife and 

> I and most the flying has been in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look 

> the same as they normally did, only my oil temps have changed.  This 

> was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 people but I was still 

> climbing at 105 knots.  Sure my climb rate may be lower but the 

> cooling should be the same.  All I can think of is the angle of attack 

> with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.  

> Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often?  Where does 

> your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings 

> around 19.5 and 2400?

> I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before 

> adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others.

>  

>

> Scott Schmidt

>

> scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

>

> *

> *

BPA(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

Optimum oil temps at cruise would be 180-190. Granted, winter time in

the middle part of the country, temps are going to be a bit lower. But

in the summer 210 on climb out is not a concern, at least to the engine

AS LONG AS level off or nose down a little, the oil temp drops back down

into the 165-200 range as Deems mentioned. We are a bit more

conservative, well anal, about max oil temps not exceeding 225 on climb

out on our engines.



One of our customers has his SW cooler (sorry, can't remember the P/N)in

his RV-8 tilted to 23 degrees, which for installation is maximum he can.

His reason is that it allows the air to hit the cooler passages at a

greater angle, making it more cool efficient. 



Being as I haven't built mine yet(getting closer Deems) this is food for

thought, I have no direct data on cooler placement or angle of the

mounted cooler. We were just discussing this last year at the RV

cookout, when the subject came up.



Allen Barrett

BPE, Inc.



--

Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

Adding some speculation to this thread...



In my RV-4, I can tell to a remarkable degree of accuracy how much oil I

have by watching the oil temp on a hot day.  If the oil sump gets just a

little below 6 qts, the oil temp really starts to climb.  I normally

keep my oil at 6 quarts (capacity of the O-320 is 8 quarts), but in the

hottest months I try to keep it at 7 quarts just to keep the temps down.

If I put 8 quarts in, I will quickly lose a quart through the breather.



I'm wondering whether it would be useful to have an air-oil separator

and keep the oil at max capacity for better cooling. I have such a

separator on my Pietenpol and since I don't lose any oil through the

breather, the oil consumption on that engine (Continental A65) is

running at about a quart every 25 hours.  I'm considering putting an

air-oil separator on the RV-10, but had not considered that it might

help with oil temperature.  Helps keep the belly clean, too.



Does anyone have any experience with an RV-10 with an air-oil separator,

and does it still have problems with oil temps?



Jack Phillips

#40610

Tailcone



--

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?  

  

 If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler I would be interested.  It was not that warm out on Saturday and I wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have previously seen.  

 I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+.  I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno racers have. 

 I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.  

 

Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com 



 ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

Scott, here's a page I wrote up about some cooling improvements with

pics of the louvres:

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20061022/index.html

This page in the tips area also has links to the louvres and

where to get them.  I have not added them yet.



http://www.myrv10.com/tips/engine_IO540.html

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Scott Schmidt wrote:

[quote] Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me? 

  

 If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler 

 I would be interested.  It was not that warm out on Saturday and I 

 wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have 

 previously seen. 

 I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 

 90+.  I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the 

 Reno racers have.

 I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F. 

  

 Scott Schmidt

 scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

 

 

 ---

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

Jack, I typically run my oil around 10 quarts.  When I landed I checked it and it was around 9.5. I added two quarts to add more thermal mass before taking off. 

  

 Tim, I will download the data and take a closer look at it.  I sure would like to be able to climb out at 24 square without having oil temp issues.  In the winter I have had to adjust power because of CHT.  When they get to 400 I start pulling power or decreasing climb rate.  But it appears the summer brings other issues.  When I was climbing out on Saturday the oil temps were at 220, my CHT was 394.

  

 I have heard the ducting that feeds the oil cooler is 75% the area of the cooler, but with a baffles it would seem there would be enough pressure to push as much air as possible through the cooler.  I was wondering if a slightly higher angle of attack (caused by 4 people) increases the pressure on the bottom of the aircraft just slightly which reduces the amount of air flowing out of the cowling. ???????????

 

Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com 



 ---

bhughes(at)qnsi.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

Is there any possibility of even the smallest air leak on  the pressurized side of the oil cooler? If so some of the air will take the path  of least resistance and not pass through the oil cooler core. This lowers the  pressure differential between the cooler input and discharge. The box  between the firewall and oil cooler face needs to be air tight.   

  

 Bobby

 40116

 (reading too much about liquid cooled engines over the last  3 years)



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott  Schmidt

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:53 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: High Oil  Temps

 

  

 Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?  

  

 If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil  cooler I would be interested.  It was not that warm out on  Saturday and I wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different  than I have previously seen.  

 I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get  to 90+.  I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler  like the Reno racers have. 

 I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.   

 

Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com  



 -----  Original Message ----

From: Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com>

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM

Subject:  RE: High Oil Temps



 --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"  <mritter509(at)msn.com>



Scott,



Flew to Baja recently with two  passengers and about 60 pounds of bags.  

OAT's were well into the  70's and lower 80's on climb outs.  On climb out 

(1,000+ fpm) oil  temp would climb to 205.  It came down to 185 as soon as I 

lowered  the nose once reaching cruising altitude.



I generally cruise at 65% - 70%  of power for a reference.  On hot days (75+) 

before I added the  louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the 

210-212 range in cruise  and 220+ when climbing.  With the louvers I'm seeing  

185.  Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle  on hot 

hot days to keep the oil temp below 200.  Before adding the  louvers my cowl 

was extremely hot to the touch and now its just  warm.  I think having a 

larger opening in the bottom of the cowl  for the heat to exit helped  lower 

the oil temp.



Bracing  for when it really gets hot here in Texas.



Mark  (N410MR)





[quote]From: Scott Schmidt  <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: RV-10 List  <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: High Oil  Temps

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)



Need  some advise.  On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT  

for the day (about an hour flight).  We hung out for the day,  went to the 

car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials  and then headed 

home.

We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp  was around 74 when we took off. 

  Before starting my engine  the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south 

over Moab, then down on  the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. 

  While  climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F.  I have never seen them  

that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my  

ducting had fallen off.

I took off the cowl, and everything  looked perfect.  Thought a bird or 

something else might have  gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler 

but it looked perfect  when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night 

while he was  watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking 

about  anything else I might have missed.

I put the cowling back on and took off  by myself and flew around.  I really 

had to climb slow to get  it to 200 F but everything looked normal.  So the 

four of us  loaded up and we were off.  I typically climb around 100 to 105.  

  On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at  210.  Once I was 

at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then  seemed to stabilize around 190.  

These still seem higher than  I have had in the past. I am use to temps 

around 170 to 180.

I  typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the  

winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my  oil 

temps have changed.  This was the warmest weather I have  flown in with 4 

people but I was still climbing at 105  knots.  Sure my climb rate may be 

lower but the cooling should  be the same.  All I can think of is the angle 

of attack with 4  people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler.



Do many of  you in the south go above 200 F very often?  Where does your oil  

temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5  and 

2400?

I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some  more work before 

adding a larger oil cooler or  	  Quote: 	
		  


	


href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

This changes the story a bit....if you're also seeing high

CHT's on climbout in the winter, then I believe you definitely

have to look at your baffling and there is probably a bit of

improvement that can be done.  The temps weren't that hot

that day, and my guess is you'll easily be able to drop

a bunch of temperature by some baffling improvements.

Check those links I sent in one of the last emails on the

list.  Especially verify that you have prevented air from

flowing under your upper cowl air ramps, and that you have

sealed your air chamber above the engine well.  For CHT's,

also file out the slag between the cylinder fins on the

top of your cylinder below the sparkplugs.  If you're seeing

heat in more than just one form....CHT's and Oil temps, especially

the fact that you've seen it in the winter, then there is a

problem somewhere.   This weekend it hit 85 degrees by me,

but yet I never hit 400 CHT on climbout except for under the

most extreme of hot days.



Personally, I had thought I did a good job on my baffles and

cowl sealing. It wasn't until I really dug in that I realized

that my original job sucked in comparison to what was possible.



I really doubt that just the additional people load changed

your AOA enough to make a huge difference.  I fly a large

percentage of my time with 3-4 seats filled, and even when

it's the kids there, that means I carry lots of baggage too.

The airspeed you climb at will affect the temps a lot more, I

would bet.  I climb like you (106kts approx.).



I would seriously dig into the cowling/baffling/cooling.

Check that page I put together. I think there's enough there

to figure it all out.  That tips page too has the file type

I used.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Scott Schmidt wrote:

[quote] Jack, I typically run my oil around 10 quarts.  When I landed I checked 

 it and it was around 9.5. I added two quarts to add more thermal mass 

 before taking off.

  

 Tim, I will download the data and take a closer look at it.  I sure 

 would like to be able to climb out at 24 square without having oil temp 

 issues.  In the winter I have had to adjust power because of CHT.  When 

 they get to 400 I start pulling power or decreasing climb rate.  But it 

 appears the summer brings other issues.  When I was climbing out on 

 Saturday the oil temps were at 220, my CHT was 394.

  

 I have heard the ducting that feeds the oil cooler is 75% the area of 

 the cooler, but with a baffles it would seem there would be enough 

 pressure to push as much air as possible through the cooler.  I was 

 wondering if a slightly higher angle of attack (caused by 4 people) 

 increases the pressure on the bottom of the aircraft just slightly which 

 reduces the amount of air flowing out of the cowling. ???????????

  

 Scott Schmidt

 scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

 

 

 ---

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

Scott,



I bought mine from Alex DeDominicis (972) 775-1896.  He has pictures on his 

web site.  There are four RV's at 50R (Central Texas) that have the louvers 

installed including Keith Uhls RV-7 who I think you have met.  We all swear 

by them.  Folks that have installed them are seeing their oil temp going 

down by 20-25 degrees (down to 185 degree range in my RV-10) allowing for 

faster climbs without having to level off to cool things down (except on 

really really hot days).



Getting oil temp too cold is not a problem for me.  If it gets that cold I 

start whinning about where is Gore's global warming, grab an electric 

blanket and get in the fetal position and don't go outside until it warms up 

to at least 60.



I'll take some pictures tomorrow if I get to the a/p.  Once on, you can't 

see them except when cleaning the dirty side of the airplane.



Hope all is well.



Mark

N410MR

[quote]From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: High Oil Temps

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT)



Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me?



If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler I 

would be interested.  It was not that warm out on Saturday and I wasn't too 

concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have previously seen.

I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+.  I 

will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno 

racers have.

I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F.



Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com



---

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

Have you tried climing at 115Kts indicated.  That seems to be the most

efficient speed for climging from our testing.  On the Sorcerer putting

either 110Kts or 115Kts is standard for us on climb.  It should run a little

cooler that way.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

Randy(at)abros.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

Well I need to chime in here. On one trip about 4 months after my first

flight Cheryl and I had to make a trip to Redmond Or and pick up two

passengers. We were coming back to the valley. I landed at Redmond with

the air temp about 95 deg. The airport is 3200ft or so field elevation.

We filled up with fuel loaded about 75 lbs of baggage and 4 passengers.

I mean we were at gross.  We headed for the runway. At the end of the

runway it was 101 deg.  We left the ground at about the 1500 ft. mark.

Now the engine was heat soaked and we were only on the ground for 20 min

(no cool off time at all). On climb out Rob's engine monitor squawked

check oil temp. We were at 235 and climbing.  At 500 ft AGL I lowered

the nose so we were climbing at 100ft per minute. The engine temp hit

239 then leveled off before dropping to about 225.  I called the engine

rebuilder and he said that it would be ok and the correct solution was

lower the nose and make sure it started to drop.  He also has told me

that in order to get the moisture out of an engine in the winter time to

get the oil temp to 180 deg. Below that the moisture that builds sitting

in the hanger for a month or so will not be evaporated. My normal temps

are 185 to 205 most of the time. Good flying. Randy 40006



--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

I used to think my Mooney ran 220 based on factory crappy gage. Put in 

UBG16 and found I run 195-200 most of the time and can keep it under 210 

without much trouble. I consider 210 where I need to take action to 

reduce temps.

KM

KCHD

Deems Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 "Scott, I will be very interested in your progress on this issue. I 

 live in Phoenix, and high temperatures is a fact of life. talking w/ 

 fellows (at) EAA chpt mtgs. reveals that the RV6,7,8" guys all buy the 

 biggest and most efficient oil cooler they can. I was told of one that 

 was 20% more efficient than the one that Van's ships, I don't recall 

 it's name/number but could find out if you need the info. Some have 

 had success mounting the oil cooler directly behind the #4 cyl on the 

 baffling as opposed to the firewall. I doubt there's room enough on 

 the -10 for this to work.

 Here's a quote from my Lycoming Operators Manual O-540,IO-540 Series: 

 Section 3 page 3-9 /" Oil temperature: The maximum permissible oil 

 temperature is 245 deg F (118C). for maximum engine life, desired oil 

 temperature should be maintained between 165 deg F (73.8C) and 200F 

 (93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions ".

 Deems Davis # 406

 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

 http://deemsrv10.com/

 /

 Scott Schmidt wrote:

> Need some advise. *

> *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

KiloPapa

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Pearblossom, CA

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: High Oil Temps

Might be worth check the oil temp sender for  accuracy first.

  

 Kevin

40494

tail/empennage

  

 do not archive.

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Kevin
40494

do not archive

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: High Oil Temps

I had quite a long conversation with a gentlemen from Airflow Systems yesterday (I feel bad because I can't remember his name now).  They have developed a new oil cooler that is apparently more efficient than the one Van's supplies.  It is the same dimensions and should bolt directly to the mount supplied by Van's.  From their findings they have seen a decrease in oil temp of 8-15 degrees. 

 He is also doing work with an RV-10 out there putting thermal couples all around the engine and measuring the efficiency of the cooling.  He has come to many of the same conclusions you all have.  1. - Tunnel heat is caused by the exhaust and not the heating system, and 2. - There needs to be more outlets on the bottom or side of the cowling.  He feels the best location for more louvers would be on the side of the cowl but the bottom would work as well.  He also feels there is a turbulent area behind the cowl on the bottom on the plane that is causing some cooling inefficiencies and drag.  (Van would be rolling his eyes if he heard that one. hahaha.  He would say yup, who cares)  

 Like I mentioned yesterday, I also feel the cooling is decreases due to the increase of angle of attack caused by 4 people in the aircraft.  If I climb at 105 knots with 2 and 4 people with the exact same power settings but the oil temp is higher with 4 people there has to be an effect on cooling.  This makes perfect sense.  With a higher angle of attack (I will have to record AOA with 2 and 4 people) there is a slightly higher pressure on the bottom of the aircraft which will reduce the airflow through the cowl.  He agreed this occurs on all of Van's aircraft.  The more weight you have in the aircraft, the faster IAS you have to fly while climbing to maintain the same oil temps.  

  

 I agree with Tim's statement as well concerning being too cool in the winter.  My temps in the winter are very close to the 165 range so increasing cooling too much will be bad during those cold months.  Seems like the best scenario is to add louvers to the bottom, possibly add the more efficient oil cooler and in the winter I will have to add the oil cooler shutter from Vans. http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1178035620-106-414&browse=engines&product=oil_shutter

 

 The more I talk with people though, the more I am finding lots of people are dealing this issue.  Alex in Texas has 2 oil coolers on his RV-10 and is now switching to the new oil cooler from Airflow Systems.

  

Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com  



 ---

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