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RV10 Center cabin top brace.

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the way, 

an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing the 

shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at 

the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as always 

need to be warm.



In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will house 

the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am 

not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum 

tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep the 

center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be 

fairly strong.



What I question however if that there is only so many layers of fiberglass 

on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there is 

the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension my 

bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The 

screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the aluminum 

dowel, so it will not provide any retension.



Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a 

hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be placing 

a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. 

Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they are 

all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better.



John G.

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

John,



When I drilled mine there appears to be some sort of filler material at the attach point. The shavings from the drill bit looked like wood...not sure if it's really wood but it is for sure filled with something solid, at least on mine. Make sure you drill the holes undersized enough to hold the bushings or you will have fun countersinking the on top. I had to set mine with epoxy to allow the countersink to cut instead of rotate the bushing...the measurment called out in the plans cracks me up...I think it's to the 64th of an inch and I had to trim at least 3/32 maybe a little more off to make them flush with the cabin inside and out. FWIW, I used my mic to measure and verify the correct length and these were the most exact bushings for the kit I made to date, and the first ones I ever had to trim material from  



Rick S.

40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil

and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you will

get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. 



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over the 

hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it.



Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the 

outside lamination.



I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four holes 

without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the 

surrounding foam.



When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, not 

wood, unless it was balsa.



Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe a call 

to Van's is in order.



John

[quote]From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700






You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil

and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you will

get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers.



--

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Hello John,

on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did 

have plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had 

to drill a #10  hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the 

laminate. Next we did bent a wire (0.050)  in an L-shape by 3/8" with 

that L shape wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the space 

between inner and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the 

particles out. A mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that 

void (covered on one side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it in 

order to get all air out or drill another 1/16" vent hole in about half 

way of the hole. that leaves you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard point.

Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages.

br Werner

John Gonzalez wrote:

[quote] 

 Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over 

 the hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut 

 into it.

 Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the 

 outside lamination.

 I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four 

 holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of 

 the surrounding foam.

 When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, 

 not wood, unless it was balsa.

 Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe 

 a call to Van's is in order.

 John

> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>

> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

> Subject: RE: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700

>

> 

>

> You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, 

> cabosil

> and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and 

> you will

> get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers.

>

> --

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Forgot, use a syringe to fill the void



Werner Schneider wrote:

[quote] 



 Hello John,



 on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did 

 have plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had 

 to drill a #10  hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the 

 laminate. Next we did bent a wire (0.050)  in an L-shape by 3/8" with 

 that L shape wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the 

 space between inner and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all 

 the particles out. A mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into 

 that void (covered on one side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it 

 in order to get all air out or drill another 1/16" vent hole in about 

 half way of the hole. that leaves you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard 

 point.



 Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages.



 br Werner



 John Gonzalez wrote:

> 

> <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>

>

> Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over 

> the hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut 

> into it.

>

> Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the 

> outside lamination.

>

> I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through 

> four holes without the use of solvents which will effect the 

> integrity of the surrounding foam.

>

> When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, 

> not wood, unless it was balsa.

>

> Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe 

> a call to Van's is in order.

>

> John

>> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>

>> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>> To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

>> Subject: RE: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

>> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700

>>

>> 

>>

>> You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, 

>> cabosil

>> and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and 

>> you will

>> get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers.

>>

>> --

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Now, why did I not think about that L-shaped wire and a drill. That is 

pretty clever.



Thanks for the information.



JOhn

[quote]From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:53:38 +0200






Hello John,



on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did have 

plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had to drill 

a #10  hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the laminate. Next 

we did bent a wire (0.050)  in an L-shape by 3/8" with that L shape wire it 

was possible to ream all the foam out of the space between inner and outer 

laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the particles out. A mixture of 

Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that void (covered on one side with a 

tape) do that slowly to fill it in order to get all air out or drill 

another 1/16" vent hole in about half way of the hole. that leaves you at 

the end with a 3/4 inch hard point.



Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages.



br Werner



John Gonzalez wrote:

>

>

>Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over the 

>hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it.

>

>Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the 

>outside lamination.

>

>I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four 

>holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the 

>surrounding foam.

>

>When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, not 

>wood, unless it was balsa.

>

>Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe a 

>call to Van's is in order.

>

>John

>>From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>

>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>>To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

>>Subject: RE: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

>>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700

>>

>>

>>

>>You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil

>>and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you 

>>will

>>get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers.

>>

>>--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

A Monojet syringe, you can buy a box of them through a dental supply house 

for a lot cheeper than Aircraft Spruce sells them. Fill from the bottom so 

the airspace is pushed out by the raising level of epoxy cotton flox mix.



Thanks,



John

[quote]From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 11:10:54 +0200






Forgot, use a syringe to fill the void



Werner Schneider wrote:

>

>

>Hello John,

>

>on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did have 

>plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had to drill 

>a #10  hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the laminate. 

>Next we did bent a wire (0.050)  in an L-shape by 3/8" with that L shape 

>wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the space between inner 

>and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the particles out. A 

>mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that void (covered on one 

>side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it in order to get all air out or 

>drill another 1/16" vent hole in about half way of the hole. that leaves 

>you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard point.

>

>Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages.

>

>br Werner

>

>John Gonzalez wrote:

>>

>>

>>Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over the 

>>hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it.

>>

>>Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the 

>>outside lamination.

>>

>>I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four 

>>holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the 

>>surrounding foam.

>>

>>When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, not 

>>wood, unless it was balsa.

>>

>>Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe a 

>>call to Van's is in order.

>>

>>John

>>

>>

>>>From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>

>>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>>>To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

>>>Subject: RE: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

>>>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, 

>>>cabosil

>>>and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you 

>>>will

>>>get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers.

>>>

>>>--

greenley(at)starband.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Not to be picky but if you are searching for these the spelling is Monoject.





Bill Greenley

Soon to be RV-10 builder

--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

When one says the incorrect name to the assistent and then the asistent does 

not correct the doctor, this is the end result. Thanks for the 

clarification.



These work very well, one needs to cut the end to the appropriate size 

opening depending on the material that is mixed with the resin. Flox 

requires the largest opening.

[quote]From: "William Greenley" <greenley(at)starband.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: RV10 Center cabin top brace.

Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:50:36 -0400






Not to be picky but if you are searching for these the spelling is 

Monoject.





Bill Greenley

Soon to be RV-10 builder

--

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