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section 43, transparencies.

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: section 43, transparencies.

A joggle is where a molded part indents in to receive another part so that 

parts make a lap joint. In this email I am speaking of the window joggles on 

the cabin top.



I finished the sizing of the rear windows and I noticed that both the right 

and left window joggles on the cabin top for the rear windows, at the 

forward edge, mid way up, are both too shallow to allow the plexiglass to 

fit flush to the outer skin of the cabin top. It is about 1/8" too shallow. 

If too deep, shims are used to build it up.



The question is, are people finding this area of the cabin top needs to be 

built up once the doors are installed, because the door stands proud or 

should I sand some material out of the joggle(It is solid fiberglass) so 

that the plexiglass sits flush?



Why is this fiberglass part so poorly produced? It is as though the window 

cutouts(Joggles) were scribed by a kindergardener. Keeping the window edge 

trimming distance consistent is very difficult when nothing makes consistent 

arcs or staight lines. This part is pretty shameful.



Thanks,



JOhn

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Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:59 am Post subject: section 43, transparencies.

John, Having recently completed this step. Here's my experience.



Rear windows: The joggle was inconsistent in its depth and depending 

upon how much of a gap you left when trimming the windows the 

inconsistencies in the corner of the joggle contributed to the windows 

fitting unevenly. (window stands proud if trimmed very closely) I used 

the side of a small heavy duty cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool and  60 

grit sandpaper to 'clean-out' the corners of the joggle and to relieve 

the joggle seat where necessary to make it flat and as consistent a seat 

as possible. Once that was done I found that it was necessary to shim 

the rear windows with washers to get them flush with the cabin cover.



Door windows, The same issue with the inconsistent depth of the joggle 

joints as for the rear windows, and I applied the same corrective 

action. However I found that the door windows did NOT require shimming, 

and in fact despite the corrective action, I found that a couple of the 

corners were a bit 'proud' and required some sanding to fair/blend into 

the door skins.



Re fitting the Cabin cover to the doors. I did some extensive work to 

ensure that the doors and cabin cover matched   

http://deemsrv10.com/cabinwindowslogindex.html. I was not happy with the 

rounded edge of the cabin cover and the relatively straight edge of the 

doors. So when fitting the doors. I built up the cabin cover door 

opening so that I could match the appearance of the door. It is an 

entirely cosmetic activity, but I found that there were minor 

inconsistencies in the exterior of the door skins and the cabin cover 

that could only be corrected when the doors are fit. It you've haven't 

already fit your doors, you might hold off on attaching the windows 

until you have, as that will effect the 'fairing' if you choose to do so.



The disconnect between the quality on the alum parts vs the fiberglass 

parts in the kit is appalling, the only thing more appalling is Van's 

unwillingness to do anything about it.



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



John Gonzalez wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 A joggle is where a molded part indents in to receive another part so 

 that parts make a lap joint. In this email I am speaking of the window 

 joggles on the cabin top.



 I finished the sizing of the rear windows and I noticed that both the 

 right and left window joggles on the cabin top for the rear windows, 

 at the forward edge, mid way up, are both too shallow to allow the 

 plexiglass to fit flush to the outer skin of the cabin top. It is 

 about 1/8" too shallow. If too deep, shims are used to build it up.



 The question is, are people finding this area of the cabin top needs 

 to be built up once the doors are installed, because the door stands 

 proud or should I sand some material out of the joggle(It is solid 

 fiberglass) so that the plexiglass sits flush?



 Why is this fiberglass part so poorly produced? It is as though the 

 window cutouts(Joggles) were scribed by a kindergardener. Keeping the 

 window edge trimming distance consistent is very difficult when 

 nothing makes consistent arcs or staight lines. This part is pretty 

 shameful.



 Thanks,



 JOhn

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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: section 43, transparencies.

Hi John,



Having just returned from the AirCrafters composite class (where we  

fit a cabin top), I believe I can actually answer this one.  You do  

wind up building up the cabin top (with flox) to bring it up flush  

with the window.  You'll find that you also need to do it on the  

forward side of the door.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

HIDs

On May 2, 2007, at 9:06 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>



 A joggle is where a molded part indents in to receive another part  

 so that parts make a lap joint. In this email I am speaking of the  

 window joggles on the cabin top.



 I finished the sizing of the rear windows and I noticed that both  

 the right and left window joggles on the cabin top for the rear  

 windows, at the forward edge, mid way up, are both too shallow to  

 allow the plexiglass to fit flush to the outer skin of the cabin  

 top. It is about 1/8" too shallow. If too deep, shims are used to  

 build it up.



 The question is, are people finding this area of the cabin top  

 needs to be built up once the doors are installed, because the door  

 stands proud or should I sand some material out of the joggle(It is  

 solid fiberglass) so that the plexiglass sits flush?



 Why is this fiberglass part so poorly produced? It is as though the  

 window cutouts(Joggles) were scribed by a kindergardener. Keeping  

 the window edge trimming distance consistent is very difficult when  

 nothing makes consistent arcs or staight lines. This part is pretty  

 shameful.



 Thanks,



 JOhn

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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: section 43, transparencies.

I don't know a LOT about fiberglass work, but from people I have talked to,

the fiberglass parts on the -10, for the most part, are fairly decent

quality.  I am sure I will get slammed for saying that, but I am just

quoting what I have heard Lancair builders say, mainly about the cabin top

and cowling.  It is certainly a TON easier to get an exact aluminum part

than an exact fiberglass part (science vs. art? - please don't slam me for

this, just IMHO).  The nice thing about fiberglass is that you can just

build up or sand down to get something to fit.



OK, now to a response.  I have seen the same issue you are talking about,

with the rear door frame on the cabin top having kind of a "flat" in it

where either the mold was wrong or the layup was wrong, but we just build

that area up after the window is in place and the door is installed.  A good

way to get a good fit is to get the windows and doors installed, then put

some kind of tape on the part that is out further, then fill in that area

with Flox or Micro (depending on how far it needs to be built up), then sand

down to your tape and it should match nicely.  We have even gone as far in

the past as filling both parts, sanding smooth, then running a cutting wheel

down between the two to get a nice even crack.  It is hard to get the doors

perfect (or possibly impossible, especially with such a lightweight and weak

door), but you can get it pretty good.  I would also agree with Deems that

you want to fit the door on the fuse and then put the window on the door

while it is on the fuse to make sure to hold the right shape.



I hope that seems somewhat coherent.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: section 43, transparencies.

Hi guys,



Thanks for the replies.



I actually enjoy this fiberglass stuff, but I don't appreciate having to do 

a lot of extra work that should have been done correctly to begin with, 

epecially when I(we)still have so many other things to do. It typically 

would be a lot of work even with a nicely molded part.



JOhn



[quote]From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: section 43, transparencies.

Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:00:53 -0400






I don't know a LOT about fiberglass work, but from people I have talked to,

the fiberglass parts on the -10, for the most part, are fairly decent

quality.  I am sure I will get slammed for saying that, but I am just

quoting what I have heard Lancair builders say, mainly about the cabin top

and cowling.  It is certainly a TON easier to get an exact aluminum part

than an exact fiberglass part (science vs. art? - please don't slam me for

this, just IMHO).  The nice thing about fiberglass is that you can just

build up or sand down to get something to fit.



OK, now to a response.  I have seen the same issue you are talking about,

with the rear door frame on the cabin top having kind of a "flat" in it

where either the mold was wrong or the layup was wrong, but we just build

that area up after the window is in place and the door is installed.  A 

good

way to get a good fit is to get the windows and doors installed, then put

some kind of tape on the part that is out further, then fill in that area

with Flox or Micro (depending on how far it needs to be built up), then 

sand

down to your tape and it should match nicely.  We have even gone as far in

the past as filling both parts, sanding smooth, then running a cutting 

wheel

down between the two to get a nice even crack.  It is hard to get the doors

perfect (or possibly impossible, especially with such a lightweight and 

weak

door), but you can get it pretty good.  I would also agree with Deems that

you want to fit the door on the fuse and then put the window on the door

while it is on the fuse to make sure to hold the right shape.



I hope that seems somewhat coherent.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694

--

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: section 43, transparencies.

Acknowledged with no acceptable answer.



Watch for a solution at OSH '07.



John Cox



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