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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: Warbird Arrival plans for OSH |
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Jim,
You have dorm bed #2 at OSH. I have some suggestions about a staging location. Large airports near OSH will be overflowing with GA gaggles. Janesville JVL would be ideal except that I think the Mooneys stage there. We should check dates on their departure, could be gone by Sunday. Rockford RFD gets the Bananas. Sooo, I'd pick either:
East Troy 57C with cheapest gas around, one paved runway and 1 turf. Jet A is only $2.89 so they get whatever can land on 3900 ft.
Burlington BUU is nearby with $3.89 100LL. 1 4300 ft paved and a turf also. Nearby town with Americinn hotel.
Both East Troy and Burlington are due south of WB arrival . Fly-in resorts are also nearby for loverboys with GIBs. Lakelawn lodge C57 and Grand Geneva Spa C02
Craig Payne
cpayne(at)joimail.com (cpayne(at)joimail.com)
Troops,
You notice that the FAA has put a time certain arrival for formation groups. Right now planned for Sunday July 22nd between 1230 & 1330 L. As noted by Rick Siegfried EAAWB president, he proposes that all WB formation groups (T-28, T-6 & us), rendezvous airborne, somewhere near OSH and proceed in together. For those who will are planning to stay at OSH the whole week as appose those heading to MTW, this will be the best way in. There will be (as far as I know) another Warbird Arrival Day on the following Tuesday. This usually occurs after noon time.
Several airports have suggested for our staging point.
We have to take into account the slowest aircraft. Yaks
The aircraft with the shortest legs. = Yak-52 standard. (figure 1 hr en route)
Other possible non WB traffic headed for OSH. Rockford (RFD) gets all the Bonanzas and Janesville (JVL) get the Mooneys.
Other choices are:
East Troy (57C)= 71.6nm to OSH
Burlington (BUU)= 78.3 nm
Manitowoc (MTW)= 38.7 nm
Popular Grove (C77)= 100.7 nm
Kenosha (ENW) =87.7 nm
Dubuque (DBQ) = 133.6 nm
Assuming a rendezvous time of 1230L for the OSH arrival flight, (most likely at the south end of the lake) would mean a TO time from:
MTW: 1200L
BUU: 1115L
ENW:1110L
C77: 1100L
57C: 1115L
DBQ: 1045L
Figuring backward fuel needed:=
:30 VFR reserve. = 7 gals
:15 for OSH WB rendezvous = 4 gals
< 1:00 en route flight time. = 15 gals (zero wind)
:05 join-up (would be best to use a running join-up on course) = 2 gals
Taxi out-run-up = 2 gals.
Total fuel 30 gals required
Total time (zero wind) 2:00 (include taxi time) (at) at zero wind component using 115 kts IAS, for formation in route:
Max leg would be 115 nm.
Here are my suggestions. I do not know anything about 57C & BUU except what "Flash" Payne notes above.
If we go to C77.
Nice place, nice people, but no fuel truck, and small runway.
Most importantly it is near the max range for this mission.
A standard 52 might be pressed fuel wise. THIS NOT A GOOD THING GOING INTO OSH.
If we go to ENW,
Plenty of ramp room, fuel trucks if needed,
Tower has experience with large formations.
Comfortable range for short legged Yaks.
Plus we may plan to sortie out there next year (2008) on the CJ's 50 birthday.
100LL will not be cheap. $?
If we go to MTW.
Ramp room and fuel trucks to service the formation.
EAA chapter lets us use their meeting room.
Runways very good.
We'll all be able to meet together. A lot of RPA guys are going in there for Sergi school. Those who will be staying at MTW will stay there, those who will go on to OSH will fly the mission into OSH.
Well with-in the comfort range of the short legged Yaks.
If we go to DBQ:
Good ramp room and fuel trucks if needed.
Excellent runways.
The T-6 guys will be there. We could sortie with them, and simply tag along to OSH.
Draw back is that this exceeds the assumed range for this mission for the short legged Yaks.
Some of us will be doing the airshow at Peiora, (PIA) ILL. The distance from PIA to :
MTW= 226 nm
BUU =136.5 nm
57C =140.9 nm
ENW=140.3 nm
C77 = 106.6 nm
DBQ = 113.7 nm
Once again, assuming a rendezvous time of 1230L for the OSH arrival flight, (most likely at the south end of the lake) would mean a TO time from:
MTW: 1200L
BUU: 1115L
ENW:1110L
C77: 1100L
57C: 1115L
DBQ 1045L
or there abouts.
I personally would recommend we all show up at MTW as early as possible on Sunday or even the day before. Weather permitting I planned to get into MTW Saturday evening. I plan to stay at OSH from Sunday on. "To each his own."
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby Chief Navigation Officer
"Truth is stranger than fiction. But fiction is limited by facts." Mark Twain
See what's free at AOL.com.
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dabear(at)damned.org
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: Warbird Arrival plans for OSH |
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Nice overview Pappy! However, I think you may be a little optimistic
with your fuel plan regarding standard tanked yak-52s (ST-Yak52). I
would not want to plan a 1 hour enroute considering how often we get
asked to hold outside, problems rejoining with other groups, etc. I
would say 30-40 min enroute time is more conservative, but a better
chance the ST-Yak52s could make the whole trip without going bingo fuel.
DaBear
cjpilot710(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Jim,
You have dorm bed #2 at OSH. I have some suggestions about a staging
location. Large airports near OSH will be overflowing with GA gaggles.
Janesville JVL would be ideal except that I think the Mooneys stage
there. We should check dates on their departure, could be gone by
Sunday. Rockford RFD gets the Bananas. Sooo, I'd pick either:
East Troy 57C with cheapest gas around, one paved runway and 1 turf.
Jet A is only $2.89 so they get whatever can land on 3900 ft.
Burlington BUU is nearby with $3.89 100LL. 1 4300 ft paved and a turf
also. Nearby town with Americinn hotel.
Both East Troy and Burlington are due south of WB arrival . Fly-in
resorts are also nearby for loverboys with GIBs. Lakelawn lodge C57
and Grand Geneva Spa C02
Craig Payne
cpayne(at)joimail.com <mailto:cpayne(at)joimail.com>
Troops,
You notice that the FAA has put a time certain arrival for formation
groups. Right now planned for Sunday July 22nd between 1230 &
1330 L. As noted by Rick Siegfried EAAWB president, he proposes that
all WB formation groups (T-28, T-6 & us), rendezvous airborne,
somewhere near OSH and proceed in together. For those who will are
planning to stay at OSH the whole week as appose those heading to MTW,
this will be the best way in. There will be (as far as I know)
another Warbird Arrival Day on the following Tuesday. This usually
occurs after noon time.
Several airports have suggested for our staging point.
We have to take into account the slowest aircraft. Yaks
The aircraft with the shortest legs. = Yak-52 standard. (figure 1 hr
en route)
Other possible non WB traffic headed for OSH. Rockford (RFD) gets all
the Bonanzas and Janesville (JVL) get the Mooneys.
Other choices are:
East Troy (57C)= 71.6nm to OSH
Burlington (BUU)= 78.3 nm
Manitowoc (MTW)= 38.7 nm
Popular Grove (C77)= 100.7 nm
Kenosha (ENW) =87.7 nm
Dubuque (DBQ) = 133.6 nm
Assuming a rendezvous time of 1230L for the OSH arrival flight, (most
likely at the south end of the lake) would mean a TO time from:
MTW: 1200L
BUU: 1115L
ENW:1110L
C77: 1100L
57C: 1115L
DBQ: 1045L
Figuring backward fuel needed:=
:30 VFR reserve. = 7 gals
:15 for OSH WB rendezvous = 4 gals
< 1:00 en route flight time. = 15 gals (zero wind)
:05 join-up (would be best to use a running join-up on course) = 2 gals
Taxi out-run-up = 2 gals.
Total fuel 30 gals required
Total time (zero wind) 2:00 (include taxi time) (at) at zero wind
component using 115 kts IAS, for formation in route:
Max leg would be 115 nm.
Here are my suggestions. I do not know anything about 57C & BUU
except what "Flash" Payne notes above.
If we go to C77.
Nice place, nice people, but no fuel truck, and small runway.
Most importantly it is near the max range for this mission.
A standard 52 might be pressed fuel wise. THIS NOT A GOOD THING GOING
INTO OSH.
If we go to ENW,
Plenty of ramp room, fuel trucks if needed,
Tower has experience with large formations.
Comfortable range for short legged Yaks.
Plus we may plan to sortie out there next year (2008) on the CJ's 50
birthday.
100LL will not be cheap. $?
If we go to MTW.
Ramp room and fuel trucks to service the formation.
EAA chapter lets us use their meeting room.
Runways very good.
We'll all be able to meet together. A lot of RPA guys are going in
there for Sergi school. Those who will be staying at MTW will stay
there, those who will go on to OSH will fly the mission into OSH.
Well with-in the comfort range of the short legged Yaks.
If we go to DBQ:
Good ramp room and fuel trucks if needed.
Excellent runways.
The T-6 guys will be there. We could sortie with them, and simply tag
along to OSH.
Draw back is that this exceeds the assumed range for this mission for
the short legged Yaks.
Some of us will be doing the airshow at Peiora, (PIA) ILL. The
distance from PIA to :
MTW= 226 nm
BUU =136.5 nm
57C =140.9 nm
ENW=140.3 nm
C77 = 106.6 nm
DBQ = 113.7 nm
Once again, assuming a rendezvous time of 1230L for the OSH arrival
flight, (most likely at the south end of the lake) would mean a TO
time from:
MTW: 1200L
BUU: 1115L
ENW:1110L
C77: 1100L
57C: 1115L
DBQ 1045L
or there abouts.
I personally would recommend we all show up at MTW as early as
possible on Sunday or even the day before. Weather permitting I
planned to get into MTW Saturday evening. I plan to stay at OSH from
Sunday on. "To each his own."
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby Chief Navigation Officer
"Truth is stranger than fiction. But fiction is limited by facts."
Mark Twain
------------------------------------------------------------------------
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
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