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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: Short and to the point

I am often quoted as being too verbose.  Until you understand “Hydrogen Embrittlement”, use no cleaner (especially not Old Simple Green) on any aircraft component until you “the manufacturer” know what you are placing at risk <<Simple Green.pdf>>  <<Simple Green MSDS 2006.pdf>> .  Period.  As manufacturer’s do what you want.  

Here are two important documents for the RV 10 University.  

Extreme Simple Green is not the same product as Old Simple Green.  End of discussion.  

John Cox  

#600

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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: Short and to the point

That was beautiful, John.  Your input/insight is always great, but brevity is beautiful, especially when you use little words that I can understand.



While we're on this, what about using Orange cleaner for both scuffing and degreasing?



We use some kind of thinner for cleaning before priming, but we scuff and use thinner then alcohol (desengrasante) for exterior paint prep, then go with wash primer, followed by filler primer (the gray stuff), folowed by color and clear.



Jesse



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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Short and to the point

John;

 Thanks for caring enough to make your point.  

 I'll get the Extreme! 

 Thanks!

  

 Pascal

  

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: Short and to the point

Scuffing whether with an additive (pumice - Orange stuff) or with

accessories (such as Scotchbrite pads) increases the potential for

Adhesion - a good thing.  Just remember that with Alclad 2024 the

surface coating of pure aluminum is Thin 5% of the total on each side.

You do the math on 0.025". When it turns dark, you are already through

the pure aluminum and into the base hybrid metal stock.



I've heard no negatives on the citrus based products.  Residue might

require more rinsing.  The cleaner the substrate (no residue) the

quicker the time between cleaning and priming the less oxidation which

is happening immediately.  More hands, less time is a better thing.



Cessna had a problem with filiform corrosion from cleaning aircraft

overnight (outside) and then priming and painting the next day.  Who

said acid rain hasn't reached the "Heartland"?



John



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apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: Short and to the point

IIRC Cessna also skipped one of the primer steps recommended by the

paint manufacturer.

Whatever happened to the traditional acid etch/alodine process? Too

labor intensive?



On 5/10/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 Scuffing whether with an additive (pumice - Orange stuff) or with

 accessories (such as Scotchbrite pads) increases the potential for

 Adhesion - a good thing.  Just remember that with Alclad 2024 the

 surface coating of pure aluminum is Thin 5% of the total on each side.

 You do the math on 0.025". When it turns dark, you are already through

 the pure aluminum and into the base hybrid metal stock.



 I've heard no negatives on the citrus based products.  Residue might

 require more rinsing.  The cleaner the substrate (no residue) the

 quicker the time between cleaning and priming the less oxidation which

 is happening immediately.  More hands, less time is a better thing.



 Cessna had a problem with filiform corrosion from cleaning aircraft

 overnight (outside) and then priming and painting the next day.  Who

 said acid rain hasn't reached the "Heartland"?



 John



 --

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james.k.hovis(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: Short and to the point

On ALCLAD, you don't need to etch or alodine, only if you have deep

scratches to blend out deeper than the clad surface. Remember, the

reason for clad is the pure aluminum gets a thin veneer of oxide to

protect the rest of the material when exposed to air. Mild cleaning

and a light scrubbing should be all you need. A citric product is used

in production, not sure what "brand" it is... If there's a material

that may lead to hydrogen embrittlement as John notes, RUN AWAY

SCREAMING please!!!!



Kevin H.

On 5/11/07, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 IIRC Cessna also skipped one of the primer steps recommended by the

 paint manufacturer.

 Whatever happened to the traditional acid etch/alodine process? Too

 labor intensive?



 On 5/10/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:

 > 

 >

 > Scuffing whether with an additive (pumice - Orange stuff) or with

 > accessories (such as Scotchbrite pads) increases the potential for

 > Adhesion - a good thing.  Just remember that with Alclad 2024 the

 > surface coating of pure aluminum is Thin 5% of the total on each side.

 > You do the math on 0.025". When it turns dark, you are already through

 > the pure aluminum and into the base hybrid metal stock.

 >

 > I've heard no negatives on the citrus based products.  Residue might

 > require more rinsing.  The cleaner the substrate (no residue) the

 > quicker the time between cleaning and priming the less oxidation which

 > is happening immediately.  More hands, less time is a better thing.

 >

 > Cessna had a problem with filiform corrosion from cleaning aircraft

 > overnight (outside) and then priming and painting the next day.  Who

 > said acid rain hasn't reached the "Heartland"?

 >

 > John

 >

 > --

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