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crazyivan
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola
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 Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: Flap Creep |
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On my Model IV Speedster, when I put my flaps at zero and work the ailreons back and forth they will creep to the first notch (5 deg). When flying I'll manually push the flap handle to zero and I can feel the aerodynamic forces try to push them to the first notch.
Is my flap handle mis-rigged and zero flaps is actually at the first notch? Can anything else be wrong?
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Dave
Piper PA-22/20 |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: Flap Creep |
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The friction nut may be loose, and the flaps may not be aligned with
the wing. Did you build the wooden jigs as outlined in the builder's
manual? The jigs help to align the centerline of the flaps with the
underside of the wing, and at the correct distance *from* that
underside.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/275+ hrs
On May 12, 2007, at 8:03 PM, crazyivan wrote:
| Quote: |
On my Model IV Speedster, when I put my flaps at zero and work the
ailreons back and forth they will creep to the first notch (5
deg). When flying I'll manually push the flap handle to zero and I
can feel the aerodynamic forces try to push them to the first notch.
Is my flap handle mis-rigged and zero flaps is actually at the
first notch? Can anything else be wrong?
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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wingnut
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Flap Creep |
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I have the exact same behavior in my model 4. In my case, there are no 'notches' for the flap lever so it's just held in place by friction. If I notice that the flap lever is creeping up (never more than a half inch), I'll push it back down to the stops. However, I've never been able to discern any change in the trim or airspeed when I do this so I've never really worried about it. Any feedback would be appreciated.
| Quote: | | On my Model IV Speedster, when I put my flaps at zero and work the ailreons back and forth they will creep to the first notch (5 deg). When flying I'll manually push the flap handle to zero and I can feel the aerodynamic forces try to push them to the first notch. |
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crazyivan
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Flap Creep |
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Lynn - I didn't build it but the builder did provide the wood jig. I'll tighten up on the friction nut a little (after I find it) and check the alignment. Thanks.
Wingnut - I have a little pitch trim change when I push the handle back down. My problem is that my handle creeps a few inches. It makes me nervous when I am cruising at 115mph and see the flaps at 5 degrees. I think, though, that the flaps are actually at zero because I can feel no air load on the flap handle at this position. Lynn's suggestion to check the flap position with the jig should confirm this.
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Dave
Piper PA-22/20 |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: Flap Creep |
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At 05:03 PM 5/12/2007, you wrote:
| Quote: | On my Model IV Speedster, when I put my flaps at zero and work the
ailreons back and forth they will creep to the first notch (5
deg). When flying I'll manually push the flap handle to zero and I
can feel the aerodynamic forces try to push them to the first notch.
|
On the IV and later the aileron system is designed with a
lot of differential, which in practical terms means the ailerons move
up more than down. This was done to reduce adverse yaw. What it means
to your flap system is that anytime you work the ailerons there is
more force on the up moving aileron than down so that your flap
system will tend to creep down. I would just tighten the friction
system or replace it with a true "notch" system; a fairly simply modification.
On a related topic I've done a lot of work trying to
quantify speed changes over -5 to +5 degrees flaps and have been
unable to do so. I know there is some difference, but on my plane,
(IV-1200,) it is small. (And I do have a pitch trim tab on the elevator.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: Flap Creep |
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It's right under the front of the seat, slightly right of aircraft
center. I looks like a large washer that's been welded to the
structure, has a 1/4" bolt with castle nut and cotter pin.
Lynn
On May 13, 2007, at 8:40 AM, crazyivan wrote:
| Quote: |
Lynn - I didn't build it but the builder did provide the wood jig.
I'll tighten up on the friction nut a little (after I find it) and
check the alignment. Thanks.
Wingnut - I have a little pitch trim change when I push the handle
back down. My problem is that my handle creeps a few inches. It
makes me nervous when I am cruising at 115mph and see the flaps at
5 degrees. I think, though, that the flaps are actually at zero
because I can feel no air load on the flap handle at this
position. Lynn's suggestion to check the flap position with the
jig should confirm this.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112562#112562
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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: Flap Creep |
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This may or may not help! John King designed a flap attach system that will
hold your settings in place, and will not allow them to creep. The old
system used leather as a way to provide friction, but that wears out no
matter how tight you make it! If you want to talk to me about this email,
call me at 301-520-3171 anytime.
Ray
| Quote: | From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Flap Creep
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:34:52 -0400
It's right under the front of the seat, slightly right of aircraft center.
I looks like a large washer that's been welded to the structure, has a
1/4" bolt with castle nut and cotter pin.
Lynn
On May 13, 2007, at 8:40 AM, crazyivan wrote:
>
>
>Lynn - I didn't build it but the builder did provide the wood jig. I'll
>tighten up on the friction nut a little (after I find it) and check the
>alignment. Thanks.
>
>Wingnut - I have a little pitch trim change when I push the handle back
>down. My problem is that my handle creeps a few inches. It makes me
>nervous when I am cruising at 115mph and see the flaps at 5 degrees. I
>think, though, that the flaps are actually at zero because I can feel no
>air load on the flap handle at this position. Lynn's suggestion to check
>the flap position with the jig should confirm this.
>
>--------
>Dave
>Speedster 912 UL
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112562#112562
>
>
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