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pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pet
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 Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: skin dents |
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If you have a severe dent which you can reach to attempt to "hammer &
dolly" the dent, do not use both a metal hammer and metal dolly or the
aluminum will stretch. Use a softer plastic such as Delrin for the
hammer or wood or plastic for the dolly under the dent. Use multiple
light taps on aluminum as it "moves" very easily.
Rubbing a piece of wood under aluminum dents will greatly reduce most to
the extent that often an extra coat of primer will be sufficient to
block sand it smooth with no additional filler.
Pete Cowper
RV-8 #81139
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: skin dents |
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There are pros at doing this with metal "spoons" found in the phone book
under dentless auto body repair. Works as long as there is no crease and
individual is experienced with aluminum, rather than steel auto bodies.
Michael D. Cencula wrote:
| Quote: |
FWIW, careful pushing with a popsicle stick or other small piece of wood can
greatly reduce the appearance of dents in skins. I've repaired a couple
small dents using this method in my empennage skins.
Mike
On Wednesday May 23 2007 09:58 am, Patrick Kelley wrote:
> How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from
>
<snip>
> Phoenix) or if he is right. Comments and opinions much appreciated.
>
> Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Odd tasks while waiting for avionics.
>
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: skin dents |
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In a message dated 5/24/2007 8:17:10 AM Central Daylight Time, smithhb(at)tds.net writes:
| Quote: | I thought you gave up hammering rivets with a brick long ago... |
Nah, the "brick" is one of my favorites, along with my "chunky" and "woodle bar"...
Mark do not archive
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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From The PossumWorks... |
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emrath(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: skin dents |
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I don't think I'm gonna touch this one!!' Not from someone that lives in
Possum Corner.
Marty
Subject: Re: skin dents
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Thu May 24 - 11:47 PM
In a message dated 5/24/2007 8:17:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
smithhb(at)tds.net writes:
I thought you gave up hammering rivets with a brick long ago...
Nah, the "brick" is one of my favorites, along with my "chunky" and "woodle
bar"...
Mark do not archive
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webmaster(at)flion.com
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: skin dents |
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Again, thanks to everyone who replied. I’ve tried to take close-up pictures of the dinged rivets but bare aluminum defeats my camera’s auto-focus and even the manual pictures are difficult because light does funny things reflecting off the skin. However, there are pictures on my project website, http://www.flion.com/rv6a/Default.htm, that show some of the riveting from a distance, for what it’s worth. I’m afraid you won’t be able to tell much.
However, I’ve been given the word from some locals that, while he is still on the rolls as a TC and has an A&P IA, no one pays much attention to him anymore. One of the locals (not a homebuilder or TC) inspected my airframe and assured me there was no problem other than cosmetic. He’s offered to help me fix some of the dings that we can and said that, while he might redo one HS skin (the first I ever riveted) for cosmetic reasons, it shouldn’t be an issue. He wasn’t a fan of the filler route, because it would hide a rivet and leave an obvious gap in the pattern, but then went into some ideas to ‘fake’ a rivet in the filler. So the upshot is, I should be Ok. I still need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to smelt down my work and start over.
Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don’t trust my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind him was completely off base. I also learned I need to ask around some more before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone’s support and encouragement.
Pat Kelley – RV-6A – tying up loose ends while waiting for avionics
[quote][b]
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: skin dents |
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Patrick Kelley wrote:
<snip>
I still
| Quote: | need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the
inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to
smelt down my work and start over.
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Patrick,
Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am
confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't
result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit.
I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates.
At one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure
that particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in
the Tech Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence.
| Quote: | Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned
here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don't trust
my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind
him was completely off base.
|
Yep, a healthy dose of skepticism is often useful! 
I also learned I need to ask around some more
| Quote: | before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone's
support and encouragement.
|
Hire?? I certainly hope you didn't pay for your Tech Counselor visit.
These visits are supposed to be voluntary with the possible exception of
free lunch or some help with gas money.
Best wishes for a speedy conclusion to your project; you will love your
new plane!
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
EAA Technical Counselor #4291
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Dale Ensing
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:46 am Post subject: skin dents |
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Your insurance rates may not be less because of TC reviews, but it may help
with your airworthiness inspection. The FAA inspector that did my 6A asked
me in our first conversation (while I was still building) if I had a TC
look at the airplane and when he came for the visit he asked to see the TC
reviews. But the best reason for a TC review of your project is your own
safety.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
EAA TC #3061
| Quote: |
Patrick,
Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am
confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't
result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit.
I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates. At
one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure that
particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in the Tech
Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence.
|
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_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC |
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webmaster(at)flion.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: skin dents |
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As far as hire goes, he was coming from a distance so I was happy to pay a
small amount to cover his gas, etc. If I get someone from farther away, I
would still expect to help defer their travel; gas ain't cheap.
I hadn't heard that the EAA insurance program or the tech inspection
incentive had ended. But I'd still get the inspections, especially if I can
get a TC with RV experience. Actually, I was lucky enough to have Miles
Towner (Van's prototype shop employee) look over my project and he pointed
out a few RV specific things that I would never have known about. (He also
didn't say anything bad about my riveting quality but then again he didn't
do a thorough inspection during his visit.) So I agree that the TC is a
valuable thing.
However, food for thought: There are not always Tech Counselors or even
other builders available. When I started this project in Ann Arbor in '94 I
was unable to locate any nearby builders. There was an active group
somewhat north of Detroit, but the only help I got was from the shop at
American International Airways, and they didn't know anything about the RV.
In Chicago I could have had tons of help, but I wasn't able to work on the
project there. In Flagstaff, I briefly met with a -9A builder, before he
moved his project south, and there is now another builder who is about the
same level as I. You know my TC situation. Frankly, I've been building in
a vacuum and that's what allowed this guy to throw me for such a spin - I'm
no judge of my own work. It'd be wonderful to have someone with experience
looking over my shoulder, but what do you do when there's no one available?
Pat Kelley - RV-6A
--
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: skin dents |
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Patrick Kelley wrote:
| Quote: |
As far as hire goes, he was coming from a distance so I was happy to pay a
small amount to cover his gas, etc. If I get someone from farther away, I
would still expect to help defer their travel; gas ain't cheap.
|
No doubt the gas money was appreciated and appropriate. I've had
"offers" to inspect projects a state or so away and it seemed the
builders expected me to drop whatever I was doing and burn my RV money
for the privilege of flying to see their projects. I've never
accepted gratuities for the many projects inspected in the north Alabama
area and the technical counselor visits have been most enjoyable.
<snip>
| Quote: | However, food for thought: There are not always Tech Counselors or even
other builders available. When I started this project in Ann Arbor in '94 I
was unable to locate any nearby builders. There was an active group
somewhat north of Detroit, but the only help I got was from the shop at
American International Airways, and they didn't know anything about the RV.
In Chicago I could have had tons of help, but I wasn't able to work on the
project there. In Flagstaff, I briefly met with a -9A builder, before he
moved his project south, and there is now another builder who is about the
same level as I. You know my TC situation. Frankly, I've been building in
a vacuum and that's what allowed this guy to throw me for such a spin - I'm
no judge of my own work. It'd be wonderful to have someone with experience
looking over my shoulder, but what do you do when there's no one available?
|
This does present a difficult situation for a builder. Perhaps a very
good option for a builder who expects to be working in a vacuum is to
take advantage of one of the excellent weekend RV construction
workshops. In my opinion, the expense of traveling to the workshop would
be a bargain considering the potential problems and aggravation that
could arise from constructing an aircraft with *no* technical
background. After "graduating" from a workshop, the builder will have
not only a good sense of what is acceptable workmanship, but the
confidence to pursue the process. I have also had a couple of builders
from quite some distance who took the time to bring their completed
vertical or horizontal stab to my shop or hangar so we could discuss any
questions they had concerning the build.
The internet, in spite of potential pitfalls, is the greatest resource
ever offered to a custom plane builder. The builder who is working
without local assistance needs to get totally up to speed on the various
forums and email lists and read them religiously. Only by sifting
through a lot of info can the isolated builder begin to separate the
wheat from the chaff. Many times close relationships with reliable
distant builders are established and their input can be invaluable even
though they may be a coast away.
Building in a location without local assistance puts an additional
burden on the builder to do whatever is necessary to insure a safe
aircraft. And, support needs to be gained in whatever way is necessary
in order to have a build experience that is not only safe but enjoyable.
There is no point in taking on a huge project such as building a plane
if the process isn't fun and fulfilling.
Patrick, I admire your tenacity over the years of pursuing your dream
and am confident you will see the project to conclusion. Let us know how
we can help.
Sam Buchanan
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