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GONER752(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda motor from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally opposed 4 cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like it would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one being used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts?
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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Michael Logan
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Back in 1994, I saw a Kitfox with a Yamaha Virago engine. It was a shaft drive motorcycle so he put the prop hub on the drive shaft and would start the engine in neutral and then shift to second to taxi and fly.
Mike Logan
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GONER752(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 8:50 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation
Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda motor from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally opposed 4 cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like it would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one being used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts?
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA |
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GONER752(at)aol.com
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Hi "Goner",
Greg, a few years back someone built one model of this
engine with a full length shaft running over the top
of the engine to hold the prop. Not pretty, but this
gives you bearings that can take the prop forces.
I've been looking in Google for anything on it for
you, but no luck yet. It might have been in an old
KitPlanes where I saw it... Might be in an EAA search
too.
Here is another honda and VW that have been modified
for your interest. Click on the pic for more info.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/17/ron-patrick-s-jet-powered-honda-scooter/
Kurt S.
S-5/NSI turbo
CAP prop
Florida and Panama
--- GONER752(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Speaking of different engines and so forth, this
little marble's been
rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone
ever looked at the Honda motor
from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum
block, horizontally opposed 4
cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials
it doesn't seem like it
would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging
on the internet hasn't
produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've
never heard of one being
used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or
thoughts?
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
|
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
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GONER752(at)aol.com
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runwayrex(at)juno.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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If the GL1000 engine puts out 84 horsepower, does that open up even more options with the other four cylinder of 1200cc and the six cylinder 1500s! It would be interesting to find out which one or two gear ratios work best. One for climb and one for cruise? Remove the other gears, including reverse to save weight.!
It sounds simple, but when we read someone's development stories on a job like this, it's a big job. But, somebody do it okay? Keep us up to date on your progress and I hope you make a fortune on your work!
Rex in southeast Michigan
Model 3
575 hours
912UL
Warp
-- GONER752(at)aol.com wrote:
Now that's experimentation gone mad. Awesome. After some further searching, it appears the Honda GL1000 engine is rated at 84 hp. Not too shabby. Maybe food for thought.
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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I have a Sport Aviation mag from about 1991 that has a Goldwing engine in
that was shown at Sun and Fun if I remember right. I think the company's
name was H and H enginering or something like that. They had a redrive on
it that I think used the transmission. I'll look for the article and
report back when I find it.
Jim Chuk
Avid MK IV
Chisholm Mn
| Quote: | From: GONER752(at)aol.com
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Engines and experimentation
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:49:47 EDT
Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been
rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda
motor
from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally
opposed 4
cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like
it
would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't
produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one
being
used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts?
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
|
_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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I knew I had the mag somewhere, and it is the July 1993 Sport Aviation mag.
On page 41 there was a short article and pictures of a Goldwing engine
conversion. The short article says that H&H engine Conversions of
Camarillo, Ca displayed an engine at Sun and Fun that is an aircraft
conversion of the Honda Gloldwing 1100 motorcycle engine. It has a 2.5-1
gear reduction unit, a new oil sump and weighs about 140 lbs.
.....conversion was being offered for $5500........ for more info....call
H&H engine Conversions at 805/388/3025. I've thought about this quite a
bit myself, I almost got a Goldwing engine to start experimenting, but never
got further than that. I think if a person was to get a new crankcase
machined to eliminate any extra weight and use the Honda crank, pistons,
cylinders, and heads you could get the weight down, but it would not be
cheep. Now I'm leaning toward the Jabaru 2200. In the end I would have a
proven engine. I would like to see someone do it with the Hondas though.
Jim Chuk
Avid MK IV
Chisholm, Mn
| Quote: | From: GONER752(at)aol.com
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Engines and experimentation
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:49:47 EDT
Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been
rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda
motor
from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally
opposed 4
cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like
it
would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't
produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one
being
used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts?
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
|
_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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john murphy
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 5
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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I recently installed a Rotec R-2800 7 cylinder radial engine in my Classic 4 Speedster. Runs good. John Murphy , St. Louis
> From: thesupe(at)hotmail.com
[quote] To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engines and experimentation
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 03:23:30 +0000
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" <thesupe(at)hotmail.com>
I knew I had the mag somewhere, and it is the July 1993 Sport Aviation mag.
On page 41 there was a short article and pictures of a Goldwing engine
conversion. The short article says that H&H engine Conversions of
Camarillo, Ca displayed an engine at Sun and Fun that is an aircraft
conversion of the Honda Gloldwing 1100 motorcycle engine. It has a 2.5-1
gear reduction unit, a new oil sump and weighs about 140 lbs.
......conversion was being offered for $5500........ for more info....call
H&H engine Conversions at 805/388/3025. I've thought about this quite a
bit myself, I almost got a Goldwing engine to start experimenting, but never
got further than that. I think if a person was to get a new crankcase
machined to eliminate any extra weight and use the Honda crank, pistons,
cylinders, and heads you could get the weight down, but it would not be
cheep. Now I'm leaning toward the Jabaru 2200. In the end I would have a
proven engine. I would like to see someone do it with the Hondas though.
Jim Chuk
Avid MK IV
Chisholm, Mn
>From: GONER752(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Engines and experimentation
>Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:49:47 EDT
>
>Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been
>rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda
>motor
>from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally
>opposed 4
>cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like
>it
>would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't
>produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one
>being
>used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts?
>Greg G.
>
>Macedon, N.Y.
>23NK
>n375KL
>Mod 2
>582
>
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>************************************** See what's free at
>http://www.aol.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntagline========================>
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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I recall that engine combo. I think there was an article in Sport Aviation, or maybe Kitplanes about it.
Deke Morisse
N148DM
S5/Soob/CAP
NE Michigan
I never heard how it played out.
do not archive
[quote] ---
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mclayton(at)rochester.rr.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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How about a Jabiru 2200 at 85 HP and 132 lbs?
Mike
On Jun 5, 2007, at 10:08 PM, GONER752(at)aol.com (GONER752(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Now that's experimentation gone mad. Awesome. After some further searching, it appears the Honda GL1000 engine is rated at 84 hp. Not too shabby. Maybe food for thought.
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive
See what's free at AOL.com.
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
|
|
Mike
mclayton(at)rochester.rr.com (mclayton(at)rochester.rr.com)
Mobile: 585-737-5506
8 Adams Trail
Spencerport, NY 14559
KF II Rebuild (in Progress)
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:22 am Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Could you post some pictures John?
John Murphy <murphystl(at)hotmail.com> wrote: [quote] P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } I recently installed a Rotec R-2800 7 cylinder radial engine in my Classic 4 Speedster. Runs good. John Murphy , St. Louis
> From: thesupe(at)hotmail.com
[quote] To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engines and experimentation
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 03:23:30 +0000
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" <thesupe(at)hotmail.com>
I knew I had the mag somewhere, and it is the July 1993 Sport Aviation mag.
On page 41 there was a short article and pictures of a Goldwing engine
conversion. The short article says that H&H engine Conversions of
Camarillo, Ca displayed an engine at Sun and Fun that is an aircraft
conversion of the Honda Gloldwing 1100 motorcycle engine. It has a 2.5-1
gear reduction unit, a new oil sump and weighs about 140 lbs.
......conversion was being offered for $5500........ for more info....call
H&H engine Conversions at 805/388/3025. I've thought about this quite a
bit myself, I almost got a Goldwing engine to start experimenting, but never
got further than that. I think if a person was to get a new crankcase
machined to eliminate any extra weight and use the Honda crank, pistons,
cylinders, and heads you could get the weight down, but it would not be
cheep. Now I'm leaning toward the Jabaru 2200. In the end I would have a
proven engine. I would like to see someone do it with the Hondas though.
Jim Chuk
Avid MK IV
Chisholm, Mn
>From: GONER752(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Engines and experimentation
>Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:49:47 EDT
>
>Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been
>rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda
>motor
>from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally
>opposed 4
>cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like
>it
>would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't
>produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one
>being
>used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts?
>Greg G.
>
>Macedon, N.Y.
>23NK
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47093/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222]Comedy with an Edge [/url]to see what's on, when. [quote][b]
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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John,
I second Marco's request and maybe some performance numbers - climb, cruise
and fuel burn.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
1998 850 hrs.
---
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GONER752(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Well it seems it has already been tried. There must be a good reason it didn't go further. As for the Jabiru 2200, I couldn't agree more. If I had my druthers, and $14,000 laying around, I'd swap out my 582 in a heartbeat.
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive.
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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mclayton(at)rochester.rr.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Still looking at the HKS 700E. For the money, it looks like a good choice, especially for reliability. Might be just a little underpowered for the KFII. Like you, if I could convince myself to spend that kind of money, the Jabiru sure looks good, but a bit heavy. Wonder if anyone knows about the conversion on the II?
On Jun 6, 2007, at 6:00 PM, GONER752(at)aol.com (GONER752(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Well it seems it has already been tried. There must be a good reason it didn't go further. As for the Jabiru 2200, I couldn't agree more. If I had my druthers, and $14,000 laying around, I'd swap out my 582 in a heartbeat.
Greg G.
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
do not archive.
See what's free at AOL.com.
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
|
|
Mike
mclayton(at)rochester.rr.com (mclayton(at)rochester.rr.com)
Mobile: 585-737-5506
8 Adams Trail
Spencerport, NY 14559
N16AF (KF II Rebuild in Progress)
[quote][b]
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Don G
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Engines and experimentation |
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Not too many yeas back, I was heavily involved in Garden tractor pulling with my son....we didnt pull in the same class but there was a class for motorcycle engined tractors. Some tried the GL 1000 and the GL1100, but it was pretty heavy and not competitive. The 140lbs weight claim is pretty optimistic from my experience. The in pullers it was more like 200 lbs.
It would certainly be a great experiment tho..and even at 200 lbs, it would be less than a C-85, but nowhere near a Rotax 912.
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_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Me too! but I'd probably go for a larger plane say a V.
BTW if any one has a jab laying around gathering dust...... I might be able to swap a great Rotax 582 for it.
[img]cid:912372902(at)07062007-183F[/img]
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)
Do not archive
[quote]
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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I was looking at a GL1100 today. I think it is possible to build a PSRU converter plate. Then you could have a field day cutting away many pounds of divers parts...E.g. the clutch, clutch case and entire transmission. I'll bet the right person could strip it down to around 150 Lb plus the rad.
[img]cid:042470203(at)07062007-1846[/img]
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)
Do not archive
[quote] --
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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I have been reading these E mails. Don't know what you mean by no where
near the 912. Does this mean that you think a 912 is heavier then a C85.
If so, are you ever wrong. Clint
From: "Don G" <donghe(at)one-eleven.net>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engines and experimentation
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 17:42:49 -0700
Not too many yeas back, I was heavily involved in Garden tractor pulling
with my son....we didnt pull in the same class but there was a class for
motorcycle engined tractors. Some tried the GL 1000 and the GL1100, but it
was pretty heavy and not competitive. The 140lbs weight claim is pretty
optimistic from my experience. The in pullers it was more like 200 lbs.
It would certainly be a great experiment tho..and even at 200 lbs, it would
be less than a C-85, but nowhere near a Rotax 912.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116957#116957
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john murphy
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 5
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: Engines and experimentation |
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Marco + Lowell ; I do not have good numbers yet but should be good. Fuel burn is supposed to be about 5 GPH.Engine is heavy also had to add ballast to the tail . Rotec website is
www.rotecradialengines.com There are a few other Kitfoxs shown there. Probably not the ideal engine for the airplane but interesting .Call in the evening if anyone would like to discuss it. John Murphy 636-532-0479
> From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
[quote] To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engines and experimentation
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 06:12:59 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
John,
I second Marco's request and maybe some performance numbers - climb, cruise
and fuel burn.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
1998 850 hrs.
---
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