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speckter(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: off list communications |
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It doesn’t take long hanging around this list to get the feeling that there are more than a few ‘Double Dumb” experts out there. (Those who are too dumb to know that they are dumb.) I know this sounds offensive, I don’t mean it to be. I have seen numerous occasions where suggestions from Tech Counselors, DAR’s and repeat offenders have been pooh-poohed because the “EXPERT” knows better, even though this is the first time he is building or in some cases he is not even building.
This list needs diversity of opinion. It needs to tap the experience of those who have gone before. This is how all of us learned the first time. I to, hope that those who have left the list will return. I also admonish those whose experience is on the thin side, to refrain from blanket statements and condemnation of those who differ in thought, and lets all loose the “know it all” attitude. This is a forum for evaluating ideas. There is no one way to do things, but each way has its good points and its bad points. One person may choose method A because, in his evaluation of the issues, the down sides do not impact him the way they might person B who chooses another method.
We builders and pilots have attributes that make us successful at flying and building. Strong self confidence, self starting, roll up your shirt sleeves and let’s get going attitude. However the ego and the jump right in and do it attitude can be offensive. I for one, would hate to see this list loose its primary talent because we cannot or will not be tolerant of others. No matter how good you are, there is someone better.
If I have offended you I apologize. My only aim is to make this list all that it can be.
Gary
40274
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:58 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Runaway trim
Are you in town this weekend? I am catching up on my Honey Do List.
Those Rivet Head parts need a home and payment… right?
Offline as needed. “Do not Archive” as needed. Wish fewer of the builders were posting offline but I understand the dynamic and must reluctantly cede to their wishes to communicate away from all the negative feedback. I have posted this concern before – total subject posts and responses are down considerably and is a trend which needs positive correction. Jesse has taken over the RV-10 list as the “now defacto” expert on all pilot operations, builder operations and component expert as well. As several have mentioned offline, they cannot find a pilot certificate, repairman certificate or any formal training for such a basis of wisdom from his youthful posts. Even Dan Checkoway has left the list from posting his wisdom.
Hope you are making progress on your kit. Paul and I am about to proseal the aft lower fuselage skin onto the main fuselage this weekend.
Work is just that, I am either moving from Heavy Check into Line Maintenance or to Quality Control Inspection in the next few months. We are undergoing “Lean Training” from an efficiency expert from Andersen Window Manufacturing. Now if you can explain how that will help a Service Business, I am all ears. The company has approved my week off for OSH so I am now officially going.
John
600
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:17 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Runaway trim
Well, you know what? How about some of those quality discussions being placed back online!
If there are good points that need making or that are being made that someone is privy to that would help this list, especially for us folks not in the, apparently many, offline discussions, then please, get them online. We need folks to learn, and part of learning is to put forth an opinion. Part of learning is to then have an expert respond with advice about that opinion. I don't typically say anything technical because I'm not yet confident or experienced enough (well, I now might say something about deburrrrrring), but that doesn't mitigate the fact that I have an opinion every once in awhile, such as NO you don't need a WET compass, but it is pretty a pretty fail safe instrument when others go south, although I think a battery back up would be better.
Get the conversations online. There are too many of us who need the knowledge. We especially need expert opinions, and there are experts following this list.
Ok, rant over. Back to earning a living.
John J
#328
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 9:41 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Runaway trim
Not all conversation merits archival techniques into perpetuity. Those that do …. should not use “Do not Archive”.
I have been told offline that everyone on this list can filter out the advice of those who are not pilots but try to give advice as if they were, builders who do not hold a repairman certificate, or are just lurkers who find the discussions of interest. It is meant to be a courtesy to those few readers who actually resort to searching the archives. Tim and I have used it extensively and I apologize for those times when I forget. Its misuse may have something to do with why the quality traffic has dropped so abruptly and much valuable discussion is now taking place “Offline”.
This one is not for the records.
John Cox -#40600
Do not Archive.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:45 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Runaway trim
Tell me again why we need to write Do Not Archive? It sure is nice to be able to follow complete threads in the Archives.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/8/2007 11:38:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ed(at)muellerartcover.com writes:
| Quote: |
We all seem to get out of the habit of Do Not Archive. Would yours
have worked (below) or do I need to do it? |
See what's free at AOL.com.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
012345
[quote][b]
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acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: off list communications |
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Well said Gary. It has been said before and even "archived" that a percentage of lurkers on the list tend to stay in the background (or have drifted into the shade) due to an unwillingness to expose their lack of knowledge or a fear of verbal ablation on certain topics.
There's sometimes a feeling this list is being policed for less articulated comments or holes in opinions and knowledge and this takes the shine off.
I came to this list because I knew nothing about building an aircraft and for the most part it has been very helpful.
It's been a challenge to research all the opinions on all the varied topics and I hope my knowledge has been expanded but what I was hoping for was more a list for first timers like myself. The excellent web sites of the fantastic efforts of some have really expanded the functionality of this list but it would be good to have a lot more basic "stuff" on this central bulletin board.
I like the "dumb" nuts and bolts questions and would like to see more.
Leave the do not archive protocol for soap box statements. Everything else is good fodder.
John 40315
[quote] ---
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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: off list communications |
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I for one am glad to expose my lack of experience and ignorance for all to see! I’m ecstatic that there’s a bunch of smart people who’ll point me in the right direction. Even if they don’t do it gently… I got thick skin.
Ps: The wings go on the top right?
cj
exposing my creamy nougat center
--
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apilot2(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: off list communications |
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Jess bee shure ya put the tail on right. Other wise it will be 10kts slower.
Moooney driver ;-p
On 6/8/07, Chris Johnston <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> wrote:
[quote]
I for one am glad to expose my lack of experience and ignorance for all to
see! I'm ecstatic that there's a bunch of smart people who'll point me in
the right direction. Even if they don't do it gently… I got thick skin.
Ps: The wings go on the top right?
cj
exposing my creamy nougat center
--
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Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: off list communications |
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I quit responding to and asking questions when Rcik Sked made fun of my
speling :-*
Deems Davis # 406
Baffling / Plenum / Engine Stuff
http://deemsrv10.com/
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LarryRosen
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: off list communications |
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I thought that if you put it on backwards it will be 10kts faster.
Larry
Kelly McMullen wrote:
[quote]
Jess bee shure ya put the tail on right. Other wise it will be 10kts
slower.
Moooney driver ;-p
On 6/8/07, Chris Johnston <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> wrote:
>
> I for one am glad to expose my lack of experience and ignorance for
> all to
> see! I'm ecstatic that there's a bunch of smart people who'll point
> me in
> the right direction. Even if they don't do it gently… I got thick
> skin.
>
> Ps: The wings go on the top right?
>
> cj
>
> exposing my creamy nougat center
>
> --
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_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http> |
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apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: off list communications |
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My point exactly, as to what is the correct way to put it on. What you
perceive as backwards is in fact the correct aerodynamic arrangement,
with all the swept "jet" like tails being ineffective, requiring much
bigger surface area to do the job. Rudder needs to have hinge line
perpendicular to the airflow at the stall, which apparently only Al
Mooney recognized. The Mooney rudder is much smaller than most any
aircraft of its size and wt, including the -10. Makes for smaller
tail, less wt, less structure to support, etc. How many piston powered
fighters ever had swept tails? A big fat zero as far as I know. How
many piston singles made 1960-1980 have swept tails...something more
than 80 percent. How dumb is that? BTW, nothing says you can't have a
quick build tail...just get yerself a salvage Mooney tail and put it
on, so you don't look like every other RV on the planet. Or if you
wanna go cheap, get a tail from a Lark Commander...same thing, just
costs less. (very TIC)
And what ever you do,
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On 6/8/07, Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]
I thought that if you put it on backwards it will be 10kts faster.
Larry
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> Jess bee shure ya put the tail on right. Other wise it will be 10kts
> slower.
> Moooney driver ;-p
>
>
> On 6/8/07, Chris Johnston <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I for one am glad to expose my lack of experience and ignorance for
>> all to
>> see! I'm ecstatic that there's a bunch of smart people who'll point
>> me in
>> the right direction. Even if they don't do it gently… I got thick
>> skin.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ps: The wings go on the top right?
>>
>>
>>
>> cj
>>
>> exposing my creamy nougat center
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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LarryRosen
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: off list communications |
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I am glad I asked a stupid question.
Usually very easy for me.
Larry
Kelly McMullen wrote:
[quote]
My point exactly, as to what is the correct way to put it on. What you
perceive as backwards is in fact the correct aerodynamic arrangement,
with all the swept "jet" like tails being ineffective, requiring much
bigger surface area to do the job. Rudder needs to have hinge line
perpendicular to the airflow at the stall, which apparently only Al
Mooney recognized. The Mooney rudder is much smaller than most any
aircraft of its size and wt, including the -10. Makes for smaller
tail, less wt, less structure to support, etc. How many piston powered
fighters ever had swept tails? A big fat zero as far as I know. How
many piston singles made 1960-1980 have swept tails...something more
than 80 percent. How dumb is that? BTW, nothing says you can't have a
quick build tail...just get yerself a salvage Mooney tail and put it
on, so you don't look like every other RV on the planet. Or if you
wanna go cheap, get a tail from a Lark Commander...same thing, just
costs less. (very TIC)
And what ever you do,
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On 6/8/07, Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I thought that if you put it on backwards it will be 10kts faster.
> Larry
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> >
> > Jess bee shure ya put the tail on right. Other wise it will be 10kts
> > slower.
> > Moooney driver ;-p
> >
> >
> > On 6/8/07, Chris Johnston <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I for one am glad to expose my lack of experience and ignorance for
> >> all to
> >> see! I'm ecstatic that there's a bunch of smart people who'll point
> >> me in
> >> the right direction. Even if they don't do it gently… I got thick
> >> skin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ps: The wings go on the top right?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> cj
> >>
> >> exposing my creamy nougat center
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: off list communications |
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No wonder things weren't fitting right, I was looking at a picture of the Osprey. Heh
Do not archive
--
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