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bberube(at)tampabay.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

I just received a call from a San Francisco  newspaper reporter asking questions regarding a Europa XS accident that happened  today in the San Fran area.  Not sure how he got my name and phone  number.  I did ask if the owner was identified but he did not have that  information.

  

 I hate to hear this type of news especially  following the tragic loss of William and Paul.  We are such as small family  of builders and owners that any loss strikes very close to home.

  

 Bob Berube

   [quote][b]

asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

It seems two more pilots have been lost in the crash due to what

appears to be a 180 turn back to the runway. Sad to see this happen so

soon after the U.K. incident. If you google "Europa Crash Livermore",

there are several write-ups about it. 

--- Bob <bberube(at)tampabay.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I just received a call from a San Francisco newspaper reporter asking

 questions regarding a Europa XS accident that happened today in the

 San Fran area.  Not sure how he got my name and phone number.  I did

 ask if the owner was identified but he did not have that information.

 

 I hate to hear this type of news especially following the tragic loss

 of William and Paul.  We are such as small family of builders and

 owners that any loss strikes very close to home.

 

 Bob Berube

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

Bob, as I recall Bill Stewart sold his Europa to a  guy in San Francisco.  Perhaps it is he.

  

 Garry

  

 [quote]   ---

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

All,



This in from KGO talk radio in SFO; via Google:



TWO KILLED IN LIVERMORE PLANE CRASH

Two people were killed when a home-built airplane crashed shortly after 

takeoff from the Livermore airport Saturday morning.



Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Ian Gregor tells KGO the 

Europa SX departed around 8:30 a.m. and was just 200 or 300 feet off 

the ground when the pilot decided to turn back. After making a 

180-degree turn the plane crashed about 25 yards short of the runway, 

Gregor said.



The plane erupted in flames, making it difficult to immediately 

identify the people on board. The FAA is investigating.



On Saturday, June 16, 2007, at 05:09  PM, Bob wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I just received a call from a San Francisco newspaper reporter asking 

 questions regarding a Europa XS accident that happened today in the 

 San Fran area.  Not sure how he got my name and phone number.  I did 

 ask if the owner was identified but he did not have that information.

  

 I hate to hear this type of news especially following the tragic loss 

 of William and Paul.  We are such as small family of builders and 

 owners that any loss strikes very close to home.

  

 Bob Berube


	


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thomas(at)scherer.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

Sad. Very sad.

  

 http://www.nbc11.com/news/13516086/detail.html

  

 <Thomas, N81EU>

  

 [quote]   ---

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: Europa incident

\Homemade Plane Crashes, Kills Two People Onboard



KNTV-TV

Updated: 2 hours, 26 minutes ago



SAN FRANCISCO - Two people are dead after the homemade plane they were 

in crashed   Saturday just short of a runway in Livermore, Federal 

Aviation Administration   spokesman Ian Gregor reported.       Gregor 

said two people departed around 8:30 a.m. from the   Livermore 

Municipal Airport in a Europa XS, an aircraft built from a kit of   

pre-made parts.



The plane got between 200 and 300 feet off the ground before the   

pilot made a 180-degree turn to head back to the airport and crashed 25 

feet   short of the runway, according to Gregor.



There was "intense, post-crash fire and both people onboard were   

killed," Gregor said.



An FAA investigator will check out the mechanical condition of the   

plane, talk to witnesses and review communications between air traffic  

  controllers and the pilot, Gregor reported.



"As far as I know, there was no communication after takeoff   between 

the pilot and the tower," Gregor said.



Gregor said the pilot did not file a flight plan, which is not 

required, so they are not sure of the identities of the deceased. 

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gdh(at)isp.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

After reading about the crash, I called my friend Ken Hill who flies out of 

Livermore.  His wife Sandy,  who was sobbing,  told me it was, in fact, her 

husband Ken who had died in the crash.  Ken was a terrific guy, former 

military pilot with a lot of hours.  Another terrible loss.

Dale Hetrick

---

Paul Boulet

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Malibu, California

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: Europa incident

Oh my God....

  Paul Boulet, N914PB, Malibu, CA



Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> wrote:

  [quote]\Homemade Plane Crashes, Kills Two People Onboard



KNTV-TV

Updated: 2 hours, 26 minutes ago



SAN FRANCISCO - Two people are dead after the homemade plane they were 

in crashed Saturday just short of a runway in Livermore, Federal 

Aviation Administration spokesman Ian Gregor reported. Gregor 

said two people departed around 8:30 a.m. from the Livermore 

Municipal Airport in a Europa XS, an aircraft built from a kit of 

pre-made parts.



The plane got between 200 and 300 feet off the ground before the 

pilot made a 180-degree turn to head back to the airport and crashed 25 

feet short of the runway, according to Gregor.



There was "intense, post-crash fire and both people onboard were  

killed," Gregor said.



An FAA investigator will check out the mechanical condition of the 

plane, talk to witnesses and review communications between air traffic 

controllers and the pilot, Gregor reported.



"As far as I know, there was no communication after takeoff between 

the pilot and the tower," Gregor said.



Gregor said the pilot did not file a flight plan, which is not 

required, so they are not sure of the identities of the deceased. 

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[b]

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: Europa incident

Terry Seaver and Dave DeFord fly an XS Mono out of Livermore. If they  haven't posted here by the morning, I'll try giving them a call to see if they  have any further information.   

 Mike Duane  A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru 3300  

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable  Prop





See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: Europa Incident

My condolences go out to the family of Ken Hill.  I had the pleasure of 

meeting Ken about 5 years ago when he was in Florida for the Sun N'Fun 

fly-in.  I offered to take him up in my Europa which he gratefully accepted. 

We had a great flight and I turned the controls over to Ken.  He was an 

excellent pilot and a genuinely nice guy.  We'll all miss him.



Garry Stout



---

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: Europa Incident

Here are some links to local news reports about the accident. What bothers  my wife so much is the post crash fire from what has always been reported as a  virtually non-destructible fuel tank.

  

 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=5398092

  

 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/baycitynews/a/2007/06/16/planecrash16.DTL&feed=rss.news

  

  

  

 Mike Duane  A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru 3300  

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable Prop



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

davedeford(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: Europa Incident

Mike,

  

 Ken had long range tanks, which could have  been installed at the time of the crash.  Here is a description of the  tanks, which he posted about a year ago:

  

 The tanks  are 6 gal. Evinrude Johnson "Duratank" from the local boat dealer. I use quick  disconnect fittings from Europa and the pump is Facet 40105 from Aircraft  Spruce. The tanks are strapped to the wing tie bar for  restraint.

  

 I last saw Ken's airplane in his garage  about a year ago, not long after his return from a long trip, and the tanks were  in the airplane at that time.  Whether he left them there at all  times, I don't know, nor can I comment on the crash worthiness of the tie-downs  he used to hold them in place.  I am only suggesting that the fire in this  accident might not be representative of what is likely to happen to other  Europas in a similar crash.  (Third-hand accounts I have heard of the  accident say that the impact was nearly vertical.)

  

 Dave DeFord

 N135TD

 [quote]   

   --

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: Europa Incident

Thanks Dave. That will put my wife's (and Mine) mind at ease about the  tanks. From the pictures in the news accounts there seems to be very little left  after the fire. That would go along with the account of a near vertical impact.  As with the last incident, we should remain optimistic in our aircraft until the  official report comes out from the FAA.   

 Mike Duane  A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru 3300  

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable  Prop





See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

Hi! Mike  

I guess the “indestructible” tag you will have connected is a picture in a promotional video where a 4X4 vehicle is demonstrated driving over the main tank.  

However I wouldn’t expect the same tank to resist severe heat from a fuel fire for very long, sorry if this causes you and your good lady distress. Methinks the relatives of those lost in the tragedy will be long time loosing the images from their minds. My sincere condolences to all concerned.  

It is worth a thought though that Spitfire fuel tanks were situated above and forward of the pilots legs, necessary for weight and balance considerations! My long range tank is situated behind the aft maintank bulkhead but in the luggage bay, it is made of aluminium and held fixed by steel tie straps to the trike maingear webs and the rear of the headrests ! It is gravity filled through a large tap connected to the maintank filler and drains down utilising a Europa hand squeeze ball activating a siphon into the main tank. It vents into the main tank vent.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison. G-PTAG   

     

Robt.C.Harrison  

  

   

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly(at)aol.com

 Sent: 17 June 2007 20:09

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Incident  

     

Thanks Dave. That will put my wife's (and Mine) mind at ease about the tanks. >From the pictures in the news accounts there seems to be very little left after the fire. That would go along with the account of a near vertical impact. As with the last incident, we should remain optimistic in our aircraft until the official report comes out from the FAA.     

   

    

Mike Duane A207A

 Redding, California

 XS Conventional Gear

 Jabiru 3300 

 Sensenich R64Z N

 Ground Adjustable Prop  

  

  

 <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>          

  

  

See what's free at AOL.com.   

  [quote]            - The Europa-List Email Forum -Photoshare, and much much more:   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List              - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -   --> http://forums.matronics.com [b]

eckel1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

I am sure you all recall Cliff and Betty Shaw died in a crash of their  Europa last July at OSH.  Reports are that it was a stall/spin accident and  the plane was vertical when it hit.  Friends of mine saw the plane

 and they said it was shattered, but there was no fire.  I had the same  thoughts as you Mike when I read the report of the recent crash.  Hope this  helps you and your wife.

  

 John Eckel, A230

 [quote]   ---

DaveBuzz(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

It was with shock that I read the email about Ken's crash on saturday. Such a sad loss to flying in general and the Europa community in particular, my sincere condolences go to his family and friends.



dave bosomworth

 	  Quote: 	
		  



My condolences go out to the family of Ken Hill.  I had the pleasure of 

meeting Ken about 5 years ago when he was in Florida for the Sun N'Fun 

fly-in.  I offered to take him up in my Europa which he gratefully accepted. 

We had a great flight and I turned the controls over to Ken.  He was an 

excellent pilot and a genuinely nice guy.  We'll all miss him.



Garry Stout

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

Dave and Dale,



I offer my most sincere condolences to you and all the friends and 

family of Ken Hill and his passenger. Since you two appear to have had 

personal relationships with Ken, I hope you will continue to share any 

information on the accident with the Europa community.



Fred



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 After reading about the crash, I called my friend Ken Hill who flies 

 out of Livermore.  His wife Sandy,  who was sobbing,  told me it was, 

 in fact, her husband Ken who had died in the crash.  Ken was a 

 terrific guy, former military pilot with a lot of hours.  Another 

 terrible loss.

 Dale Hetrick


	


On Sunday, June 17, 2007, at 09:44  AM, David DeFord wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Mike,

  

 Ken had long range tanks, which could have been installed at the time 

 of the crash.  Here is a description of the tanks, which he posted 

 about a year ago:

  

 The tanks are 6 gal. Evinrude Johnson "Duratank" from the local boat 

 dealer. I use quick disconnect fittings from Europa and the pump is 

 Facet 40105 from Aircraft Spruce. The tanks are strapped to the wing 

 tie bar for restraint.

  

 I last saw Ken's airplane in his garage about a year ago, not long 

 after his return from a long trip, and the tanks were in the airplane 

 at that time.  Whether he left them there at all times, I don't know, 

 nor can I comment on the crash worthiness of the tie-downs he used to 

 hold them in place.  I am only suggesting that the fire in this 

 accident might not be representative of what is likely to happen to 

 other Europas in a similar crash.  (Third-hand accounts I have heard 

 of the accident say that the impact was nearly vertical.)

  

 Dave DeFord

 N135TD


	


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96victor(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

A bit of information.  Ken was very experienced and an airforce c-130 pilot/instructor.  He flew his Europa frequently like once a week.

  

 He took off West into the prevailing wind and to the West there is a large golf course under the approach to the runway.  The crash site is between the runway and the golf course.

  

 It seems strange.  A pilot with his experience and one would think if he had an engine failure that he would elect the natural emegency site ahead.  Can that mean that there was a control failure or perhaps a sudden medical cause?  We may never know. 

  

 Tom



 

 On 6/18/07, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote: [quote]Dave and Dale,



I offer my most sincere condolences to you and all the friends and

family of Ken Hill and his passenger. Since you two appear to have had 

personal relationships with Ken, I hope you will continue to share any

information on the accident with the Europa community.



Fred



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: "D.Hetrick" < gdh(at)isp.com (gdh(at)isp.com)>



 After reading about the crash, I called my friend Ken Hill who flies

 out of Livermore.  His wife Sandy,  who was sobbing,  told me it was,

 in fact, her husband Ken who had died in the crash.  Ken was a 

 terrific guy, former military pilot with a lot of hours.  Another

 terrible loss.

 Dale Hetrick


	


On Sunday, June 17, 2007, at 09:44  AM, David DeFord wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Mike,

 

 Ken had long range tanks, which could have been installed at the time 

 of the crash. Here is a description of the tanks, which he posted

 about a year ago:

 

 The tanks are 6 gal. Evinrude Johnson "Duratank" from the local boat

 dealer. I use quick disconnect fittings from Europa and the pump is 

 Facet 40105 from Aircraft Spruce. The tanks are strapped to the wing

 tie bar for restraint.

 

 I last saw Ken's airplane in his garage about a year ago, not long

 after his return from a long trip, and the tanks were in the airplane 

 at that time. Whether he left them thereat all times, I don't know,

 nor can I comment on the crash worthiness of the tie-downs he used to

 hold them in place. I am only suggesting that the fire in this 

 accident might not be representative of what is likely to happen to

 other Europas in a similar crash. (Third-hand accounts I have heard

 of the accident say that the impact was nearly vertical.)

 > 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Dave DeFord

 N135TD


	


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[b]

gdh(at)isp.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

Fred,

 About the only thing remaining will be the accident  report and that, I suspect, will take a long time.

 Dale

 [quote]   ---

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: Europa Incident

Dale,



Any chance of getting confirmation of whether or not the non-standard 

fuel tanks were on board or back in the garage?



Fred



On Tuesday, June 19, 2007, at 04:49  PM, D.Hetrick wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Fred,

 About the only thing remaining will be the accident report and that, I 

 suspect, will take a long time.

 Dale


	


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