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rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:28 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

I have a wet vacuum pump pulling set to pull 9" Hg. vacuum on my crankcase thru the breather vent and it works great.  My oil consumption went from 1 qt. every 5-7 hours to 1 qt. every 20-25 hours.  I have the oil analysis to prove that the cam isn't making any metal due to lack of oil splash and I believe the engine runs smoother, idles lower, and seems to be making some more power but I have no scientific proof of it.  I have a flapper door check valve designed into the system so if the vacuum pump quits the breather will vent to ambient.  I have about 50 hours on this setup now and it works fine so far.  I was advised by two different engine builders who have this setup flying on Reno race aircraft to install a new crank seal backwards to so that the vacuum doesn't draw air in thru the front of the engine and that too has been trouble-free. 



Based on my experience with the above I highly encourage anyone willing to experiment with pulling a vacuum on the crankcase through the exhaust.  There are many aerobatic aircraft flying that are configured this way and work just fine. 



I've remained silent on this thread up until now, and the only reason is because Mr. Gmcpilot, "God's gift to all things aviation", is involved and thinks he knows more than anyone here and can't acknowledge that an idea or concept does not conform to his thought processes, whatever ever they may be.  Its too bad that his sociopathic ramblings overshadow any technical advice he may give, because there is some good information there.  There are many other lists he's been on and its been the same story. 



So Konrad et. all, just ignore him, he'll go away eventually.



Regards,

Bob Japundza 

RV-6 flying F1 under const.

  [quote][b]

aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Wow! What a world-class rant! 

   

  You know, I think I can speak for many when I say that someone's resume', however impressive, is not what throws me off or leads me to despise certain listers. It's not the 'scrabble' in signature lines or anything like that. 

   

  The answer is that it's all about *respect* in this world, and most times the people screaming for respect and throwing their credentials around are the very ones who don't understand they are disrespecting others with their attitudes. In this case they are essentially using the list as a way to feel superior and good about themselves. 

   

  There are people of all levels here and widely varying educational backgrounds -but essentially we're all on the same team. We build and fly our own airplanes -which is a pretty darn cool thing!

   

  Anyhow, I was about to sign off like Jerry... but I  won't do it yet. There is still occaisionally a really useful piece of information that comes along here. I get the list in digest form and can quickly scan it and hit delete if it gets like this.

   

  It sure would be nice if it were all wheat and no chaff -but's that's never gonna happen, and I know it. I just use some of the chaff to remind me of how I never want to be.

   

  Scott

  N4ZW

   

  p.s. You know, it's a shame too... because sometimes there is good info out there -it's just wrapped up in so much egotistical bubblegum that nobody wants to mess with it. Get's stuck to your shoe and such.

   

  do not archive

 [quote][b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

// Anyhow, I was about to sign off like Jerry...  but I won't do it yet. There is still occaisionally a really useful piece of  information that comes along here. I get the list in digest form and can  quickly scan it and hit delete if it gets like this.

  

 Since  I monitor all the lists to do the Hotline, I can pretty well tell when a thread  -- no matter how good it starts out -- is going to end up as a flame war.   This one had possibilities but at some points you see the "usual suspects," and  you just KNOW where the thread is going to go. That's usually the point at which  I start mass deleting as they come in without even reading  it.

  

 I did  catch Jerry's note early this morning and thought "why does it seem like it's  always *this* list?" And I thought, too, that maybe it has outlived its  usefulness. Then there was a message right after it that was actually full of  good information for RV builders. And I'm pretty sure it's "flame war proof,"  since I saw little opportunity for testosterone overload in the subject matter.  (g)

  

 Do not  archive

    [quote][b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

cknauf(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Arguing on the internet is like being in the Special Olympics...you may win, but you're still a retard. [quote][b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

//Arguing on the  internet is like being in the Special Olympics...you may win, but you're still a  retard.

[quote]As the father of the special needs kid, well,  never mind. How about everybody stick to posts about building and flying RVs? [b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

tcone1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

That's cold-blooded, politically incorrect, and not  fair.

  

 Comparing retarded people to someone dumb enough to  engage in flame wars...not fair to the retarded folks at all.

  

 Tim Cone

 [quote]   ---

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Will this darn thread never  die???  Just because it  had to do with suction doesn't mean that new one's still have  to fall for this sucker just now . . . 

  

 do  not archive 

  

 P.S.: The few "handicapped"  people that I know are all fine humans, ... with hearts and  souls and the grandest smiles!!!

  

 [quote]   ---

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Agreed..., and happy fathers day to  you!

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

//someone dumb  enough 

  

 Ultimately, this is the question of the integrity and  quality of information that is dispensed on lists and it's here, I think, where  noted Internet list-hater Richard VanGrunsfeld has a fair point. You don't KNOW  whether the information you get is reliable, unless you KNOW -- firsthand  -- the person dispensing it.  If someone IS dumb enough to engage in a  flame war... just how dumb are they? Too dumb to build a plane? Too  dumb to build it right? Too dumb to rely on for information about building an  airplane that's going to carry *my* loved ones?

  

 I don't know about others, but there are names out  there in RV-land that have established their credentials. Not by saying "I've  built 150 RVs while amassing  10,000 hours flying the space shuttle to mars  and back so therefor...."   But because, first of all, they've  identified themselves by name. People have met them. Talked to them, seen their  work in person and answered questions patiently and completely. Their  credibility -- because of all that -- is unquestioned. Especially  since guys like Dan Checkoway and Sam Buchanan -- and many others -- are  also EAA Technical Counselors.

  

 I put questions on the list -- but usually not this one  -- and if I get six answers, great.... but it's not a democracy; I evaluate WHO  answered the question, and what I know about the person answering the question  before deciding what to do.  Anybody can claim to be anybody and anything  but that's not as important to me in who I listen to for building advice as  those who've proven they know what they're talking about.  

  

 OTOH, the final judge in all of my building questions  is Van's Aircraft. Usually when I post a question; it's because Van's is closed.  Or it's the weekend. On critical matters, I try not to act on the advice I get  on lists until I also hear from Van's on the subject (which, unfortunately, can  take days).

  

 The most important function of an Internet list or  forum for me is getting an answer. If I needed to be right all the time (fat  chance), win arguments,  feel better about my lowly sef... well... that's  what pet dogs are for.

  

 Forums and lists are always going to have trolls and a  few neanderthals that just make you shake your head and say, "well, it can  be a big, stupid country out there sometimes."  You can never argue them  away. There's only one thing that works: ignoring  them.

  

 The most useful information I think we can all provide  where RV construction can work is our own experiences. What problems we  encounter and what solutions we found (and where) etc. I think most of us aren't  looking for the single answer handed down as the word from the RV Gods, but  another data point to consider.

  

 Bob

 St. Paul, Minn.

  

 do not archive.

  ---

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:09 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Hi Bob:

   

Reno racers, wet vacuum pumps pulling 9" hg, miracle reduction 

in oil consumption and backward seals. Super. WOW! You're 

right & I'm wrong. Got it, but.........



   

  What does that have to do with using the exhaust ace? 

   

  Nothing so shut up with blaa-blaa-blaa personal BS  off topic.  

Please focus. You are the FIRST to mention using a vacumn  

pump (very heavy, expensive, uses HP). I still say you're nuts.  

(nothing personal) Good luck with it. 

   

  What do you do with the wet vacuum pump exhaust and the 

oil it spews out? Humm I thought we want to lessen belly oil?

  

Oh and yes, if you are going to post, don't be a liar. I never said the 

cam would go un-lubed. It was rocket scientist Konrad Wiener who  

said it'll reduce wind-age, oil splash and make miracle HP.   I just 

ASKED is reducing wind-age (lubrication) good? Plus you would 

not see it in you oil analysis which by the way is only good for 

tend anaylsis but you know that right? 

   

  I  don't think it will reduce "wind-age". That is not what its for according 

to the drag race engine builders. It's for ring seating as I said 4 times 

before, so I can see how your worn out tired engine may get less oil 

consumption with vacumn. 



  My O360 uses  1qt in 16-18 hours with a plan-ol-vent!  (depending 

on power used for cruise). but you get...............WHAT?

   

  

1 qt in 5 to 7 hours! ha-ha-ha! Ouch!



   

  An overhaul would work Bro, Gosh how silly, a vacumn pump when 

you need an overhaul. You are definitely in wiener ville. Than you got 

1 at per 25 hours? ha ha ha, right. 

   

  You pretty much shot your  credibility since that is unbelievable and 

frankly too little oil use, at least at power over idle. 

   

  I would hope when if  you eat your rings up, you are man enough to 

admit it. Sounds like a bad idea for an everyday flyer, oh right you 

are a RENO RACER in a RV-6A, ha ha ha. Reno in a RV 4 banger.



  Am I being punked.

   

  The plot thickens as more claims are made. So now the reason to 

do this is lower oil consumption? I thought it was to keep oil off the 

belly or was it to make more HP due to lower wind age. Basically 

its a miracle from what I am hearing. Well what my pappy told me is, 

If its sounds too good to be true, its probably BS. God you guys are 

crazy anal. Give it a rest.

   

   

  Look its a common mistake for newbies to make it more complicated 

and heavy. Just follow the plans and you will get into the air and  

not suffer any unintended consequences. What do I know. I'm 

just repeating Richard Vangrunsven's advice. He must be a Mr 

know it all like me. A wise man takes advice, and I am following 

Van not your's Bob. Keep it light, simple and per plans.

   

  

Bob, Lets hear about your "Reno racer": what pump, how is routed,  

what components are needed and so on. Show us all of your brilliant 

system, pictures, diagram, parts list on your RV6 reno racer. I would 

love to see this. You can teach me and everyone else, Yoda.



  

You are all talk and claims but frankly I am skeptical, nothing 

personal. I think you are full of it. As I said it may be the greatest 

thing in the world, but I suggested caution which makes me a "know 

it all". Right, so show us the magic system you claim.



  I think we need the Myth Busters.



Cheers George 



  

PS I have been at it  a long time and probably younger than you  

so you will be going away first, ha ha. I'm Done



   

  

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com (rocketbob(at)gmail.com)> 

Subject: Re: Re: Breather run into exhaust (warning again) 

 

I have a wet vacuum pump pulling set to pull 9" Hg. vacuum on my  

crankcase thru the breather vent and it works great.  My oil 

consumption 

went  from 1 qt. every 5-7 hours to 1 qt. every 20-25 hours. 

Regards, 

Bob Japundza 

RV-6 flying F1 under const.


	


        Be a better Heartthrob. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48255/*http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list&sid=396545433]Get better relationship answers [/url]from someone who knows.

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.   [quote][b]

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Take your Ritalin!



On Jun 18, 2007, at 6:07 AM, gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com) wrote:

Hi Bob:

   

Reno racers, wet vacuum pumps pulling 9" hg, miracle reduction 

in oil consumption and backward seals. Super. WOW! You're 

right & I'm wrong. Got it, but.........



   

  What does that have to do with using the exhaust ace? 

   

  Nothing so shut up with blaa-blaa-blaa personal BS  off topic.  

Please focus. You are the FIRST to mention using a vacumn  

pump (very heavy, expensive, uses HP). I still say you're nuts.  

(nothing personal) Good luck with it. 

   

  What do you do with the wet vacuum pump exhaust and the 

oil it spews out? Humm I thought we want to lessen belly oil?

  

Oh and yes, if you are going to post, don't be a liar. I never said the 

cam would go un-lubed. It was rocket scientist Konrad Wiener who  

said it'll reduce wind-age, oil splash and make miracle HP.  I just 

ASKED is reducing wind-age (lubrication) good? Plus you would 

not see it in you oil analysis which by the way is only good for 

tend anaylsis but you know that right? 

   

  I  don't think it will reduce "wind-age". That is not what its for according 

to the drag race engine builders. It's for ring seating as I said 4 times 

before, so I can see how your worn out tired engine may get less oil 

consumption with vacumn. 



  My O360 uses  1qt in 16-18 hours with a plan-ol-vent!  (depending 

on power used for cruise). but you get...............WHAT?

   

  

1 qt in 5 to 7 hours! ha-ha-ha! Ouch!



   

  An overhaul would work Bro, Gosh how silly, a vacumn pump when 

you need an overhaul. You are definitely in wiener ville. Than you got 

1 at per 25 hours? ha ha ha, right. 

   

  You pretty much shot your credibility since that is unbelievable and 

frankly too little oil use, at least at power over idle. 

   

  I would hope when if  you eat your rings up, you are man enough to 

admit it. Sounds like a bad idea for an everyday flyer, oh right you 

are a RENO RACER in a RV-6A, ha ha ha. Reno in a RV 4 banger.



  Am I being punked.

   

  The plot thickens as more claims are made. So now the reason to 

do this is lower oil consumption? I thought it was to keep oil off the 

belly or was it to make more HP due to lower wind age. Basically 

its a miracle from what I am hearing. Well what my pappy told me is, 

If its sounds too good to be true, its probably BS. God you guys are 

crazy anal. Give it a rest.

   

   

  Look its a common mistake for newbies to make it more complicated 

and heavy. Just follow the plans and you will get into the air and 

not suffer any unintended consequences. What do I know. I'm 

just repeating Richard Vangrunsven's advice. He must be a Mr 

know it all like me. A wise man takes advice, and I am following 

Van not your's Bob. Keep it light, simple and per plans.

   

  

Bob, Lets hear about your "Reno racer": what pump, how is routed,  

what components are needed and so on. Show us all of your brilliant 

system, pictures, diagram, parts list on your RV6 reno racer. I would 

love to see this. You can teach me and everyone else, Yoda.



  

You are all talk and claims but frankly I am skeptical, nothing 

personal. I think you are full of it. As I said it may be the greatest 

thing in the world, but I suggested caution which makes me a "know 

it all". Right, so show us the magic system you claim.



  I think we need the Myth Busters.



Cheers George 



  

PS I have been at it a long time and probably younger than you  

so you will be going away first, ha ha. I'm Done



   

  

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com (rocketbob(at)gmail.com)> 

Subject: Re: Re: Breather run into exhaust (warning again) 

 

I have a wet vacuum pump pulling set to pull 9" Hg. vacuum on my  

crankcase thru the breather vent and it works great.  My oil 

consumption 

went  from 1 qt. every 5-7 hours to 1 qt. every 20-25 hours. 

Regards, 

Bob Japundza 

RV-6 flying F1 under const.

       
	


Be a better Heartthrob. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48255/*http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list&sid=396545433]Get better relationship answers [/url]from someone who knows.

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. [quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

 	  Quote: 	
		  

PS I have been at it  a long time and probably younger than you  

so you will be going away first, ha ha. I'm Done



	




Boy did I just get a good chuckle out of your email.  Hopefully you are done but as history has shown, you cannot stand to be put in your place. 



Once again you rant and rave with spew pure conjecture, name calling etc., without providing ANY of your own experiences or data you've come up with on your own or anything substantive to back any of your claims. 



FWIW I am 35 years old, and have been here on this list since 1994.  And you somehow know the date in which I will expire?  LOL!  Somehow you are so all-knowing that you think you are younger and more experienced?? 



And you've obviously never operated an engine with chrome cylinders.  You must be clairvoyant, not ever seeing my engine or looking at the oil analyses to determine its worn out.



Regards,

Bob Japundza 

RV-6 flying F1 under const.

  [quote][b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Does Matt have ANYTHING to say about all of this? What's  the point of sending out the monthly "rules" message if the list is going to be  hijacked time and time again by the usual suspects?

  

 Matt? 

[quote] [b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does Matt have ANYTHING to say about all of this? What's the point of sending out the monthly "rules" message if the list is going to be hijacked time and time again by the usual suspects? 	




Bob,



You mean as in banning a subscriber or censoring certain posts?



That would not be a good thing in the mainstream press nor here. If you do not like someoneâ€™s posts simply ignore them, scroll by, do not respond, and erase their e-mail. 



If it makes you feel good make a post asking for their last name, or maybe even threaten to resign form the list.

 Those responses are certain to instill fear into the heart the perceived miscreant. 

gmc frequently has some good info to impart buried in his posts. Glean the good and ignore what you like.



I remember the thread about the Arlington lawsuit where I found your thoughts and attitudes quite repugnant and had thoughts of "he should be banned from the list" but then we would have lost access to all of the good you provide and others would have avoided posting their views for fear of sanctions. What a shame that would be.



Censorship and expulsion do nothing more than quell discussion and decrease participation.



There is at least one list on this forum where the moderators acerbic responses and condescending attitude to the simplest of questions and responses has effectively censored the list causing a loss of input from many valuable contributors.



Spend your time and effort on the barbecue, life is too short to develop an ulcer over someone elseâ€™s behavior.

_________________
Milt

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

No, I mean like in following the rules of the list.



I don't think the people who post to this list own the list or set the

policy for others on the list. I think Matt Dralle does that. And we should

respect his wishes.



We're not talking about VIEWS one finds repugnant. We're talking about the

method of communication.



The two are not the same.



That's why I think the next voice you hear answering my question should be

Matt Dralle's and only Matt Dralle's. And his answer is the only one that

should matter in regards to how we conduct ourselves.



Please? And thank you.



Do not archive



--

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Morning Bob,

 I laughed so hard too,  matter  of fact I am still trying to regain my breath.....  

 The little Troll showed that he did  not pay any attention-, nor did he understand what exactly you had said. It sure  did all make sense to me. He has really no clue about a lot of things  mechanical. He just likes to hear  himself talk & talk & talk. But I would not mind that, *IF* it were in a much more  "respectful" way instead of offending the many listers reading  the list by wasting their time with "Troll-Rant".

 Cheers,

 Konrad

 [quote]   ---

jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (warning again)

Matt probably doesn't read all the lists that carefully.  The volume  

would be crippling.  If you want his input, a personal email might help.



-Joe



On Jun 18, 2007, at 9:23 AM, Bob Collins wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>



 No, I mean like in following the rules of the list.



 I don't think the people who post to this list own the list or set the

 policy for others on the list. I think Matt Dralle does that. And  

 we should

 respect his wishes.



 We're not talking about VIEWS one finds repugnant. We're talking  

 about the

 method of communication.



 The two are not the same.



 That's why I think the next voice you hear answering my question  

 should be

 Matt Dralle's and only Matt Dralle's. And his answer is the only  

 one that

 should matter in regards to how we conduct ourselves.



 Please? And thank you.



 Do not archive

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