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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Carl,



Thank you for your prompt response. You say:



 	  Quote: 	
		   All I can say is that we use exclusively automotive unleaded fuel in 

 ours and have done so for 5 years with no problems. We cant/ dont use 

 leaded or 100LL because the oil we use in our Rotax 912UL is fully 

 synthetic.


	


Do you know whether or not your fuel has included any ethanol?



Fred

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

My understanding is that all unleaded fuel in the  UK contains Ethanol.

 [quote]   ---

hagargs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Fred:



My filters were  upstream of the fuel seletor  which meant they were

basically at the outlet of each tank feed.  I thought this  was reasonable

and  so did everyone else who gave it a cursury look.  However when you are

50 ft off of the ground on take off reaching to switch tank sides for a

good filter really doesn't cut the mustard that close to the ground. 

Putting them after fuel selector valve and in front of each electric fuel

pump gives you more options.  The normal procedure for takeoff and landing

is to have the aux pump on also.  So if you do get a clog by chance you

have a parallel  path.  And since you normally only run the primary pump

for flight the filter in front of  the aux pump is also less likely to have

some garbage loading in it.



Steve Hagar

A143

Mesa AZ

 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]

 From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>

 To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: 7/1/2007 7:53:50 AM

 Subject: Re: Fuel filters



 



 Steve...thanks so much for staying on this topic...everytime I reread 

 my original post, it sounds cockier and cockier, much to my chagrin. I 

 take it that your "burble" was found to have been caused by tank debris 

 (?).

 Do you still have the Europa filters upstream of the selector? Could 

 you explain your reasoning for putting the Frams downstream of the 

 selector?



 Fred



 On Monday, July 2, 2007, at 07:19  AM, Steve Hagar wrote:



 > 

 > <hagargs(at)earthlink.net>

 >



 > No matter how good you clean your tank and system you can't clean it 

 > good

 > enough.  I spent days and days.  Soap, water. multiple flushes with

 > gasoline, compressed air,  vacuuming etc.  I felt  fat and happy also 

 > with

 > my process, nothing remotely visible or blowing around inside  the 

 > tank.

 > Several hours of  taxi and runup, compass swing time etc. before first

 > flight  The engine burbled on the go part on a touch and  go and the 

 > plane

 > ended up in a big mud puddle off the end of the runway just short of 

 > the

 > airport boundary and a 4 lane toroughfare. This  happened at about 4 

 > hours

 > flight time.

 >

 > Solution:  2 BIG disposable automotive fuel filters downstream of your 

 > fuel

 > selector valve. Throw  them away before first flight.  Fly 2 hours 

 > with new

 > ones.  Then go for 10.  Then you can make  believe you are on top of  

 > the

 > situation.  You can get Fram's at discount stores for about 8 bucks 

 > each.

 > They are about 2 inches in diameter and 4  inches or so long, so there 

 > is

 > plenty of surface area inside.

 >

 > Steve Hagar

 > A143

 > Mesa AZ

cptimm(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

on 07/7/1 12:30 PM, Carl Pattinson at carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>

 Hi Peter,

 What is your gasket made from?

 In ignorance we have been flying around with a "suspect" gasket and no ill

 effects so far (5 years and 150hrs). Can any one with an understanding of

 fuel composition/ additives cast any light on the matter. I always thought

 that Petrol was - well petrol (or gasoline if you prefer). Diesel on the

 other hand attacks all sorts of synthetic meterials and rubbers - including

 the paintwork on some cars.

 I really cant understand why a gacolator supplied for kit use is so labelled

 "not for use with auto fuel".

 Why cant they supply a suitable gasket in the first place - its totally

 crazy!

 Carl Pattinson

> 

> Fred,

> 

> I have used that same Aircraft Spruce filter for 340 hours. Just made my

> own

> top gasket, to replace the original one.

> 

> Peter Timm

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

Carl,

I used a card-board like gasket material sold in any automotive supply

store, and used suitably sized templates to cut out my gasket with a very

sharp knife. I put a piece of the material in a jar with auto-gas , while I

was still working on the plane. It never reacted to the gas in any way and

it is still the same gasket six years later.

My gascolator is mounted on a small quarter bulkhead low down behind the

trailing edge of the left flap. The fuel-line goes from the selector valve

to the gascolator, then forward through the electric boost-pump , which is

mounted forward on the same bulkhead, through the tunnel and firewall to the

mechanical pump. I put an inspection door under the gascolator for testing

and servicing. It works very well.

Hope this explains it.

Peter Timm

paul.mcallister

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 177
Location: Waukesha, WI USA

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Fred,



Not wanting to beat the topic to death, but my experience was the same as

everyone else's. that is to say despite all the care I took in vacuuming,

washing, flushing and so on, my gascolator pulled out a surprising amount of

crud.  It was roughly equivalent to the size of two sugar cubes over the

first 25 hours.



So, what ever fuel system you settle on, be very cautious in the early

flight testing phases.



Just as a reminder, according to the FAA, More than 70% of engine failures

in homebuilt aircraft are due to fuel problems, and half of homebuilt

aircraft suffer a reduction or complete loss of power in the first 10 hours

of flight.  Very sobering statistics.



Regards,  Paul

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Right on Peter T....sounds excellent.



Do not archive



On Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 01:45  PM, Peter Timm wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 on 07/7/1 12:30 PM, Carl Pattinson at carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk 

 wrote:



> 

> <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>

>

> Hi Peter,

>

> What is your gasket made from?

>

> In ignorance we have been flying around with a "suspect" gasket and 

> no ill

> effects so far (5 years and 150hrs). Can any one with an 

> understanding of

> fuel composition/ additives cast any light on the matter. I always 

> thought

> that Petrol was - well petrol (or gasoline if you prefer). Diesel on 

> the

> other hand attacks all sorts of synthetic meterials and rubbers - 

> including

> the paintwork on some cars.

>

> I really cant understand why a gacolator supplied for kit use is so 

> labelled

> "not for use with auto fuel".

>

> Why cant they supply a suitable gasket in the first place - its 

> totally

> crazy!

>

> Carl Pattinson

>

>>

>> Fred,

>>

>> I have used that same Aircraft Spruce filter for 340 hours. Just 

>> made my

>> own

>> top gasket, to replace the original one.

>>

>> Peter Timm

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

 Carl,



 I used a card-board like gasket material sold in any automotive supply

 store, and used suitably sized templates to cut out my gasket with a 

 very

 sharp knife. I put a piece of the material in a jar with auto-gas , 

 while I

 was still working on the plane. It never reacted to the gas in any way 

 and

 it is still the same gasket six years later.

 My gascolator is mounted on a small quarter bulkhead low down behind 

 the

 trailing edge of the left flap. The fuel-line goes from the selector 

 valve

 to the gascolator, then forward through the electric boost-pump , 

 which is

 mounted forward on the same bulkhead, through the tunnel and firewall 

 to the

 mechanical pump. I put an inspection door under the gascolator for 

 testing

 and servicing. It works very well.

 Hope this explains it.



 Peter Timm

 -- 

 This message has been scanned for viruses and

 dangerous content by MailScanner, and is

 believed to be clean.

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Sobering statistics indeed...thanks for chiming in Paul...I respect 

every word you've written here.



Fred



do not archive



On Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 01:58  PM, Paul McAllister wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Just as a reminder, according to the FAA, More than 70% of engine 

 failures

 in homebuilt aircraft are due to fuel problems, and half of homebuilt

 aircraft suffer a reduction or complete loss of power in the first 10 

 hours

 of flight.  Very sobering statistics.



 Regards,  Paul

pbaker4(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: Fuel filters

If you want to see the difference in auto fuel and  avgas.

 get a couple of styofoam cups and put auto fuel in  one and

 avgas in the other. In a few seconds the auto fuel  will disolve

 the cup . the avfuel will not. I mechanic showed me  this and

 I told him it is a good thing my gas tank is not  made of

 styrofoam!!!! 

  

 paul baker ,912 uls

   [quote][b]

www(at)wynne.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: Fuel filters

In the same vein Paul, if you want your battery to crank the  engine first time at max power, wake it up with a few seconds of panel or lights  load.  Then turn that load off, give the battery a few  seconds to recover and you should get 80%+ from the sleepy head rather than  60%- we usually settle for.  naltpkt  Bill

  

 ---

willie.harrison(at)tinyon
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Anyone know what grades of rubber are compatible with avgas and/or mogas (eg for use as a gasket under fuel level sender)?



Willie Harrison

G-BZNY

On 2 Jul 2007, at 14:06, paul baker wrote:

[quote]If you want to see the difference in auto fuel and avgas.

get a couple of styofoam cups and put auto fuel in one and



[b]

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

Viton (fluoro-elastomer).

  

 Duncan McF.

 [quote]   ---

davedeford(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

[quote]   

   --

davedeford(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: Fuel filters

 	  Quote: 	
		   Anyone know what grades of rubber are compatible with avgas and/or mogas >

(eg for use as a gasket under fuel level sender)?
	


 

Buna-N (Nitrile rubber) is widely used for fuel-proof O-rings.



Dave DeFord

N135TD

UVTReith(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: Fuel filters

The best material for both is PTFE (Polytetrafluorethylen), also known as  

 Teflon, Fluon, Hostafon TF, Algoflon.

  

 This material is totally resist against Avgas, Mogas, Petrol, Diesel  etc.

 It's available as seal rings (flat and O-ring) and also in other  forms.

  

 Temperature range from - 200 °C up to + 260 °C.

 We use it for sealings on ball valves, needle valves etc. from - 100 °C to  + 230 °C

  

 Bruno Reith

     [quote][b]

hansjd(at)online.no
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: Fuel filters

Fred, Paul, all:



When I drilled the holes in the tank I took great care to not let any crud 

get inside the tank. The procedure was simply to open up the bosses in the 

tank with them being orientated vertically downwards. That meant I had to 

drill from below - getting most of the crud in the fase instead.



When the holesaw broke through the tank material the speed of the drill was 

reduced so as not to "whirl" crud inside. I vacumed the area inside the 

holes thorougly by inserting (taping) a piece of fuel pipe to the end of the 

vacum tube - getting into all  corners of the tank, adjacent to the opening.



So far no crud has shown up in the filters (apart from 3 - 4 small 

particles) after my first four testflights. I use Purolator filters only, no 

gascolator.



Project standing still now - lost medical. Don't know yet whether it's 

permanent or not. Further checking will show!



Hans #334, LN-HJD

---

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