 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL |
 |
|
Hey guys,
As always, I will be at Oshkosh about a week early with my duties in the
Vintage area, but will then probably stay for the entire show. In past
years we have had a "list" get together to share info and experiences. As
someone else mentioned, the Lightning display area would probably be a good place
to meet, leave messages, and "hang out". Since I will be there most of the
time, perhaps someone else should suggest a day and time to get together.
Another thought, I will probably again have a pretty good parking spot
for N31BZ since I get there so early. Last year I was just by the main
entrance to the homebuilt flight line in front of the tower and the big AirVenture
arched sign. You guys are welcome to hang out there as well, or make that
your place to watch the airshow from.
I just got back from Tennessee this afternoon after being there a week
to fly the demonstrator Lightning (N323AL) and attend the engine seminar. Of
course, both were outstanding. My flight evaluation of the demo Lightning is
in draft form at this time and may be published in Sport Aviation in some
future issue along with Pete's article on how his company and the Lightning
came to be. Until then, I will copy some of the performance data and put it
below so you guys can keep up on what to expect from a production kit. Remember
the last evaluation I wrote was on the "one of a kind" prototype where as
the demonstrator is exactly what a builder can expect from his kit.
It was a really hot day at SYI when I did the speed runs. OAT at 5000'
was 72 degrees and density altitude was 6850'. Nick and I are convinced
that they still do not have the optimum prop on 323AL. They are awaiting
delivery of a Sensenich 62FK58, which should be closer to what this clean design
needs for top cruise speeds. The speed numbers below were what I saw on this
hot, high-density altitude day with a Sensenich 64ZK55 wood fixed pitch prop
which we took off of my airplane for this test. (2850 = 148 true mph, 2950
= 155, 3050 = 162, 3150 = 168, and 3250 = 175). The correct prop on a
standard day should increase all of these numbers, possibly by at as much as 10
mph. One other thing of note, the day after this flight, Nick and I flew a
formation flight; him in 323AL and me in 31BZ which has a very accurate airspeed
system. The demonstrator Lightning’s indicated and true airspeed readings
appear to be pretty accurate at the low end of the operating range. However at
the high end, N323AL seems to read 5 to 6 mph low, so I think you can safely
add 5 mph to all the above speeds.
The remainder of the flight report are similar to what I wrote for the
prototype, so I will not include that type of info here. I think Pete is
going to put that on the web site, but it is probably available in the archives
of this list. I will try to answer any specific questions that you may have.
Blue Skies,
Buz
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL |
|
|
Thanks once again Buz for an interesting piece of information. Is the best guess right now a Sensenich 62FK58? I will be ordering my prop very shortly and of course would like to have the latest up to date info before committing on the order.
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:40 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL
Hey guys,
As always, I will be at Oshkosh about a week early with my duties in the Vintage area, but will then probably stay for the entire show. In past years we have had a "list" get together to share info and experiences. As someone else mentioned, the Lightning display area would probably be a good place to meet, leave messages, and "hang out". Since I will be there most of the time, perhaps someone else should suggest a day and time to get together.
Another thought, I will probably again have a pretty good parking spot for N31BZ since I get there so early. Last year I was just by the main entrance to the homebuilt flight line in front of the tower and the big AirVenture arched sign. You guys are welcome to hang out there as well, or make that your place to watch the airshow from.
I just got back from Tennessee this afternoon after being there a week to fly the demonstrator Lightning (N323AL) and attend the engine seminar. Of course, both were outstanding. My flight evaluation of the demo Lightning is in draft form at this time and may be published in Sport Aviation in some future issue along with Pete's article on how his company and the Lightning came to be. Until then, I will copy some of the performance data and put it below so you guys can keep up on what to expect from a production kit. Remember the last evaluation I wrote was on the "one of a kind" prototype where as the demonstrator is exactly what a builder can expect from his kit.
It was a really hot day at SYI when I did the speed runs. OAT at 5000' was 72 degrees and density altitude was 6850'. Nick and I are convinced that they still do not have the optimum prop on 323AL. They are awaiting delivery of a Sensenich 62FK58, which should be closer to what this clean design needs for top cruise speeds. The speed numbers below were what I saw on this hot, high-density altitude day with a Sensenich 64ZK55 wood fixed pitch prop which we took off of my airplane for this test. (2850 = 148 true mph, 2950 = 155, 3050 = 162, 3150 = 168, and 3250 = 175). The correct prop on a standard day should increase all of these numbers, possibly by at as much as 10 mph. One other thing of note, the day after this flight, Nick and I flew a formation flight; him in 323AL and me in 31BZ which has a very accurate airspeed system. The demonstrator Lightning’s indicated and true airspeed readings appear to be pretty accurate at the low end of the operating range. However at the high end, N323AL seems to read 5 to 6 mph low, so I think you can safely add 5 mph to all the above speeds.
The remainder of the flight report are similar to what I wrote for the prototype, so I will not include that type of info here. I think Pete is going to put that on the web site, but it is probably available in the archives of this list. I will try to answer any specific questions that you may have.
Blue Skies,
Buz
See what's free at AOL.com.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
01234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL |
|
|
Hi Jim,
If you can wait a week or two, Nick should have received the first 62FK58 and he will immediately start testing that prop. Until the test results are in, it is just an educated guess as to which works best. Based on what we see with the ZK blade profile, I would think the best prop for the Lightning in that series would be a 64ZK56, but Sensenich says the FK series will be faster. Apparently picking the right prop is part science, part magic and part voodoo.
Buz
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL |
|
|
I guess I’ll have to get my chickens and dolls out then…
Hee hee…
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:53 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL
Apparently picking the right prop is part science, part magic and part voodoo.
Buz
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL |
|
|
Buz,
Your numbers are similar to what I had on 323AL during my gap seal tests.
I believe that we hit a snag with the prop on my flights. We had a large
increase in cruise speed at 2850 for a given density altitude, but a large
decrease in top speed. Looking at the data it's easy to see why the speed
decreased, our rpm decreased. Now we had some engine running rich issues
during the first part of the test, but running pretty smooth for the
modified tests. It is my opinion that we saw a reduced amount of drag which
translated into speed at the top end (perhaps 10mph or more based on the
trend from unmodified graphs!) and we saw a reduction of propeller
efficiency so that we were actually putting a higher prop load into the
engine and keeping RPM's low. No other indication of problems in this area
and is the only way I can explain it. We did not try to repitch the prop
between runs. I feel sure that my data and graphs are correct as the shape
of the data is what you'd expect, but the data points for full speed with
modifications are just further to the left than the unmodified curve.
Would've been great if I could've stayed long enough to perfect the gap seal
installation and retest with a new prop. My biggest recommendation in my
experiment though was firmer material for flap gaps and leave an 1/8th inch
or so gap so that the flaps will extend and retract smoothly. Interested to
see your results, and let us know if you get published. Brian W.
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:40:10 EDT
Hey guys,
As always, I will be at Oshkosh about a week early with my duties in
the
Vintage area, but will then probably stay for the entire show. In past
years we have had a "list" get together to share info and experiences. As
someone else mentioned, the Lightning display area would probably be a good
place
to meet, leave messages, and "hang out". Since I will be there most of the
time, perhaps someone else should suggest a day and time to get together.
Another thought, I will probably again have a pretty good parking spot
for N31BZ since I get there so early. Last year I was just by the main
entrance to the homebuilt flight line in front of the tower and the big
AirVenture
arched sign. You guys are welcome to hang out there as well, or make that
your place to watch the airshow from.
I just got back from Tennessee this afternoon after being there a week
to fly the demonstrator Lightning (N323AL) and attend the engine seminar.
Of
course, both were outstanding. My flight evaluation of the demo Lightning
is
in draft form at this time and may be published in Sport Aviation in some
future issue along with Pete's article on how his company and the Lightning
came to be. Until then, I will copy some of the performance data and put
it
below so you guys can keep up on what to expect from a production kit.
Remember
the last evaluation I wrote was on the "one of a kind" prototype where as
the demonstrator is exactly what a builder can expect from his kit.
It was a really hot day at SYI when I did the speed runs. OAT at
5000'
was 72 degrees and density altitude was 6850'. Nick and I are convinced
that they still do not have the optimum prop on 323AL. They are awaiting
delivery of a Sensenich 62FK58, which should be closer to what this clean
design
needs for top cruise speeds. The speed numbers below were what I saw on
this
hot, high-density altitude day with a Sensenich 64ZK55 wood fixed pitch
prop
which we took off of my airplane for this test. (2850 = 148 true mph,
2950
= 155, 3050 = 162, 3150 = 168, and 3250 = 175). The correct prop on a
standard day should increase all of these numbers, possibly by at as much
as 10
mph. One other thing of note, the day after this flight, Nick and I flew a
formation flight; him in 323AL and me in 31BZ which has a very accurate
airspeed
system. The demonstrator Lightning’s indicated and true airspeed
readings
appear to be pretty accurate at the low end of the operating range.
However at
the high end, N323AL seems to read 5 to 6 mph low, so I think you can
safely
add 5 mph to all the above speeds.
The remainder of the flight report are similar to what I wrote for the
prototype, so I will not include that type of info here. I think Pete is
going to put that on the web site, but it is probably available in the
archives
of this list. I will try to answer any specific questions that you may
have.
Blue Skies,
Buz
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL |
|
|
Brian,
I did find that with my prop on 323AL and the high density altitude, the engine was quite rich. Nick changed the main jet to a 250 and went down two sizes on the mid range jet. That really helped and resulted in the additional rpm. I can only imagine how good this is going to be on a standard temp and density altitude day and the right propeller. I think Nick has four of the FK props arriving soon, and all are spoken for. I get one of them. It sure would be nice to have it on before I head to Oshkosh.
I certainly agree that a thicker material for the flap gap seal is the way to go. At time I ordered the supplies, that was the thickest stuff they had. At least the gap on the Lightning wing is not as large as on the Esqual. Did you do anything with the turbulator tape? Any results?
Blue Skies,
Buz
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL |
|
|
Buz,
I did not do anything with the turbulator tape, but most of my research
reveals that it is done for the gap seals on gliders. So in my thesis I'm
recommending that further research with oil to determine the effectiveness
and optimal location for the turbulators would be ideal.
Along similar lines, I don't know if Pete and Nick ever checked out the
Sinha deturbulator, but he recently presented to the 18th AIAA conference
with their flight test findings. After some trials they found that the sink
rate on gliders with this technology is roughly half as much as before the
mods. Or, the sink rate is about that of a glider with twice the span!
Still think this would at least be interesting to try on the Lightning.
They are looking to move into the experimental powered aircraft market. If
nothing else, perhaps a good source of publicity. Brian W.
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Oshkosh and Flight Evaluation on N323AL
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:00:28 EDT
Brian,
I did find that with my prop on 323AL and the high density altitude,
the
engine was quite rich. Nick changed the main jet to a 250 and went down
two sizes on the mid range jet. That really helped and resulted in the
additional rpm. I can only imagine how good this is going to be on a
standard temp
and density altitude day and the right propeller. I think Nick has four of
the FK props arriving soon, and all are spoken for. I get one of them. It
sure would be nice to have it on before I head to Oshkosh.
I certainly agree that a thicker material for the flap gap seal is the
way to go. At time I ordered the supplies, that was the thickest stuff
they
had. At least the gap on the Lightning wing is not as large as on the
Esqual.
Did you do anything with the turbulator tape? Any results?
Blue Skies,
Buz
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one
place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
