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Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor

 
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aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

I have two issues and would like advice/help from anyone willing to provide it.

1. Need to find an O ring for my fuel cap that has rotted and now leaks fuel whenever I'm vertical or pushing. Where would I find one?

2. My compressor has an auto shut off and is not refilling when I fly. It is holding air fine, and starts fine on when I refill, but doesn't refill at all while running. Snot valve is clear and no obvious problems on the lines external to compressor. I believe the problem to be in the compressor itself. I have heard that you have to fashion a special tool to get in there. Is this true, if so advice please.

Smash

[url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48250/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v9.php?o=US2226&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=AprNI&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50]Pinpoint customers [/url]who are looking for what you sell. [quote][b]


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HawkerPilot2015



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

On the compressor issue, I had the same problems and mine turned out to be a the shear coupling. Dennis mentioned to check the check valve coming out of the compressor. Mine was pretty dirty and was very difficult to move.

One way to check the compressor is to put a surgical glove over the inlet on the top and turn to the prop. If it sucks it in, then more than likely the compressor is ok. If not, then your problem is a bad compressor.

The gaskets can be had from Jill or Doug may even have them. While your at it, get a couple extra and also make sure the one on the oil cap is ok.


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dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Don't necessarily assume the compressor is bad if the glove does not get
sucked in. It could very well be the shear coupling. Unfortunately the
only way to find out if it is the shear coupling or compressor is to pull
the compressor from the engine. Be sure to clean the output check valve on
the compressor. A blocked check valve can cause enough back pressure to
cause the shear coupling to shear.
Dennis

---


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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

D,

I failed to mention that here but mentioned it in a email to Smash. You are exactly right and that was exactly the problem with mine. I bought a compressor as a back and now have two just in case the prices keep going up! I also bought a spare coupling.

Tim


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Smash, more times than not, failure to get compressed air is not a compressor problem. Of course it is the natural thing to jump on but be careful. You might go through a lot of hard work and money if you just leap on the compressor without running other tests first. You said: "My compressor has an auto shut off" and is not refilling when I fly". Ok,. what do you mean EXACTLY by an "auto shut off" ??? What you probably mean is that you have some type of reliever valve. This can be something so simple as a remote method to open your snnot valve, to more elaborate electrical valves that basically vent the compressor output to free, or outside air. In other words, they do not compress anything anymore. So can you describe this device please?

In many case, if you have a hard line leading from the compressor banjo fitting to the snot valve, this can crack and your compressed air will just leak out the crack.

You can also have a bad, or leaky banjo fitting on the bottom of the compressor itself. This is VERY common. It is hard to troubleshoot this stuff without some hand made tools and fittings, but here is a hint. Try to find some fittings so that you can take the air line that runs over to the snot valve off... at the snot valve. Now connect (anyway you can) a source of air to the line you just took off. Blow air BACKWARDS through this line towards the compressor. Listen for leaks. When you find them, there is your problem.

Be VERY suspicious of the banjo fitting on the bottom of the compressor.

Mark Bitterlich
N50YK


Sarah Tobin <aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote] I have two issues and would like advice/help from anyone willing to provide it.

1. Need to find an O ring for my fuel cap that has rotted and now leaks fuel whenever I'm vertical or pushing. Where would I find one?

2. My compressor has an auto shut off and is not refilling when I fly. It is holding air fine, and starts fine on when I refill, but doesn't refill at all while running. Snot valve is clear and no obvious problems on the lines external to compressor. I believe the problem to be in the compressor itself. I have heard that you have to fashion a special tool to get in there. Is this true, if so advice please.

Smash


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scott-p(at)texas.net
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Hi Sarah,

For the O-rings, I'd start with calling Hubie Tolson (I have his number
around here somewhere if you don't). Failing that, I THINK that George
Coy has some. Worst case, WLAC in England has them at pound-wise prices...

Is there a cut-off valve for the compressor? Mine has a solenoid set-up
which dumps overboard unless I actuate a switch to charge the tank.
Otherwise I am not sure what you mean by an "auto-shut-off". The
compressor runs all the time the engine is running. It's just a matter
of where the air goes (into the bottle or overboard). Most 55's did NOT
come from the factory with the compressor, so you'll need to go and look
at exactly how yours is plumbed. I can send you a diagram of mine if you
wish, but unless your came into the US through Scott Erickson, it is
UNLIKELY that your is plumbed the same way...

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
Quote:
I have two issues and would like advice/help from anyone willing to
provide it.

1. Need to find an O ring for my fuel cap that has rotted and now
leaks fuel whenever I'm vertical or pushing. Where would I find one?

2. My compressor has an auto shut off and is not refilling when I
fly. It is holding air fine, and starts fine on when I refill, but
doesn't refill at all while running. Snot valve is clear and no
obvious problems on the lines external to compressor. I believe the
problem to be in the compressor itself. I have heard that you have to
fashion a special tool to get in there. Is this true, if so advice
please.

Smash

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pinpoint customers
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48250/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v9.php?o=US2226&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=AprNI&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50>who
are looking for what you sell.
*
*


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aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Yeah, sorry, it dumps overboard. Seems as if the problem is one of three things

1. The dump valve is stuck open
2. There is a leak in the line between the pump and the check valve
3. Shear shaft is done busted

Would you guys agree?

Scott Poehlmann <scott-p(at)texas.net> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Scott Poehlmann

Hi Sarah,

For the O-rings, I'd start with calling Hubie Tolson (I have his number
around here somewhere if you don't). Failing that, I THINK that George
Coy has some. Worst case, WLAC in England has them at pound-wise prices...

Is there a cut-off valve for the compressor? Mine has a solenoid set-up
which dumps overboard unless I actuate a switch to charge the tank.
Otherwise I am not sure what you mean by an "auto-shut-off". The
compressor runs all the time the engine is running. It's just a matter
of where the air goes (into the bottle or overboard). Most 55's did NOT
come from the factory with the compressor, so you'll need to go and look
at exactly how yours is plumbed. I can send you a diagram of mine if you
wish, but unless your came into the US through Scott Erickson, it is
UNLIKELY that your is plumbed the same way...

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
[quote] I have two issues and would like advice/help from anyone willing to
provide it.

1. Need to find an O ring for my fuel cap that has rotted and now
leaks fuel whenever I'm vertical or pushing. Where would I find one?

2. My compressor has an auto shut off and is not refilling when I
fly. It is holding air fine, and starts fine on when I refill, but
doesn't refill Shape Yahoo! in your own image. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7]Join our Network Research Panel today![/url] [quote][b]


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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Smash,
Don’t forgot the check valve along with the pump itself as you are evaluating the stuck dump valve, the line leak and the sheared shear coupling pin.
The pump and the shear coupling are the hardest to check.
Good luck,
Doc

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:39 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor


Yeah, sorry, it dumps overboard. Seems as if the problem is one of three things



1. The dump valve is stuck open

2. There is a leak in the line between the pump and the check valve

3. Shear shaft is done busted



Would you guys agree?

Scott Poehlmann <scott-p(at)texas.net> wrote:
[quote]
--> Yak-List message posted by: Scott Poehlmann

Hi Sarah,

For the O-rings, I'd start with calling Hubie Tolson (I have his number
around here somewhere if you don't). Failing that, I THINK that George
Coy has some. Worst case, WLAC in England has them at pound-wise prices...

Is there a cut-off valve for the compressor? Mine has a solenoid set-up
which dumps overboard unless I actuate a switch to charge the tank.
Otherwise I am not sure what you mean by an "auto-shut-off". The
compressor runs all the time the engine is running. It's just a matter
of where the air goes (into the bottle or overboard). Most 55's did NOT
come from the factory with the compressor, so you'll need to go and look
at exactly how yours is plumbed. I can send you a diagram of mine if you
wish, but unless your came into the US through Scott Erickson, it is
UNLIKELY that your is plumbed the same way...

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
> I have two issues and would like advice/help from anyone willing to
> provide it.
>
> 1. Need to find an O ring for my fuel cap that has rotted and now
> leaks fuel whenever I'm vertical or pushing. Where would I find one?
>
> 2. My compressor has an auto shut off and is not refilling when I
> fly. It is holding air fine, and starts fine on when I refill, but
> doesn't refill

Shape Yahoo! in your own image. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http:/surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7]Join our Network Research Panel today![/url]
Quote:
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0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4[b]


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dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:33 am    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

My guess is the "auto shut-off" might be as simple as the pop-off valve, which is in effect, an "auto shut-off". Troubleshooting leaks, as Mark says, can sometimes be very difficult. But the tried and true soapy water spay does work. Somewhat difficult to use when the engine is running though. Use Mark's suggestion of pressurizing the line back toward the compressor.

You can also put a small balloon on the same line that attaches to the input side of the snot bottle. That's the line that goes to the banjo fitting on the compressor. Start the engine and if the balloon inflates, the compressor, shear coupling, output check valve and banjo fitting should be OK.

The banjo fitting on the output check valve of the compressor has crush washers on either side of it. That is where potential leaks usually occur. Tighten the bottom fitting at the banjo fitting.

Dennis

[quote] ---


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scott-p(at)texas.net
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Hi Sarah,

If it has an overboard dump, then I agree that the most likely places
for failure (not necessarily in order) are:
1) at the banjo fitting from the compressor to its output line
2) at any conversion fitting (if one exists) in the line to the
overboard dump valve
3) in the overboard dump valve itself
4) in any fitting after the one-way valve, assuming there is a one-way
valve between the compressor and the tank (if there isn't, get one. They
aren't terribly expensive {~$150} and may save your
compressor)--ESPECIALLY the start valve (which is actually behind the
panel on the left) and is a real b*tch to get to.
5) the shear coupling to the compressor

Good luck, I spent the better part of last fall starting my plane from
scuba bottles whilst trying to psych out a problem which was in the
start valve the whole time. If it turns out to be that, let me know, and
I'll give you the parts list and plumbing details of the solenoid start
valve I put on mine to fix the problem.

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, sorry, it dumps overboard. Seems as if the problem is one of
three things

1. The dump valve is stuck open
2. There is a leak in the line between the pump and the check valve
3. Shear shaft is done busted

Would you guys agree?

*/Scott Poehlmann <scott-p(at)texas.net>/* wrote:



Hi Sarah,

For the O-rings, I'd start with calling Hubie Tolson (I have his
number
around here somewhere if you don't). Failing that, I THINK that
George
Coy has some. Worst case, WLAC in England has them at pound-wise
prices...

Is there a cut-off valve for the compressor? Mine has a solenoid
set-up
which dumps overboard unless I actuate a switch to charge the tank.
Otherwise I am not sure what you mean by an "auto-shut-off". The
compressor runs all the time the engine is running. It's just a
matter
of where the air goes (into the bottle or overboard). Most 55's
did NOT
come from the factory with the compressor, so you'll need to go
and look
at exactly how yours is plumbed. I can send you a diagram of mine
if you
wish, but unless your came into the US through Scott Erickson, it is
UNLIKELY that your is plumbed the same way...

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
> I have two issues and would like advice/help from anyone willing to
> provide it.
>
> 1. Need to find an O ring for my fuel cap that has rotted and now
> leaks fuel whenever I'm vertical or pushing. Where would I find one?
>
> 2. My compressor has an auto shut off and is not refilling when I
> fly. It is holding air fine, and starts fine on when I refill, but
> doesn't refill
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
today!
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7>
*
*



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aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Does anyone have a schematic of the compressor system, I didn't see much in books I have

Scott Poehlmann <scott-p(at)texas.net> wrote: [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Scott Poehlmann

Hi Sarah,

If it has an overboard dump, then I agree that the most likely places
for failure (not necessarily in order) are:
1) at the banjo fitting from the compressor to its output line
2) at any conversion fitting (if one exists) in the line to the
overboard dump valve
3) in the overboard dump valve itself
4) in any fitting after the one-way valve, assuming there is a one-way
valve between the compressor and the tank (if there isn't, get one. They
aren't terribly expensive {~$150} and may save your
compressor)--ESPECIALLY the start valve (which is actually behind the
panel on the left) and is a real b*tch to get to.
5) the shear coupling to the compressor

Good luck, I spent the better part of last fall starting my plane from
scuba bottles whilst trying to psych out a problem which was in the
start valve the whole time. If it turns out to be that, let me know, and
I'll give you the parts list and plumbing details of the solenoid start
valve I put on mine to fix the problem.

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
[quote] Yeah, sorry, it dumps overboard. Seems as if the problem is one of
three things

1. The dump valve is stuck open
2. There is a leak in the line between the pump and the check valve
3. Shear shaft is done busted

Would you guys agree?

*/Scott Poehlmann /* wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: Scott Poehlmann

Hi Sarah,

For the O-rings, I'd start with calling Hubie Tolson (I have his
number
around here somewhere if you don't). Failing that, I THINK that
George
Coy has some. Worst case, WLAC in England has them at pound-wise
prices...

Is there a cut-off valve for the compressor? Mine has a solenoid
set-up
which dumps overboard unless I actuate a switch to charge the tank.
Otherwise I am not sure what you mean by an "auto-shut-off". The
compressor runs all the time the engine is running. It's just a
matter
of where the air goes (into the bottle or overboard). Most 55's
did NOT
come from the factory with the compressor, so you'll need to go
and look
at exactly how yours is plumbed. I can send you a diagram of mine
if you
wish, but unless your came into the US through Scott Erickson, it is
UNLIKELY that your is plumbed the same way...

Scott

Sarah Tobin Choose the right car based on your needs. [quote][b]


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aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:29 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Things I tried today...

I was out changing the oil, then degreased and cleaned the engine to get a better look at things in there, had to take a picture, will never see that engine compartment that clean again

Anyway, no obvious tear in any hoses, everything passed the "jiggle test" nothing loose in otherwords. there were no leaks obvious from the soapy water, but didn't try the other method. Put the latex glove on and pulled prop thru, I had a limp glove, didn't do a damn thing, so ....

Will try more tomorrow.

Smash

"A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
[quote] My guess is the "auto shut-off" might be as simple as the pop-off valve, which is in effect, an "auto shut-off". Troubleshooting leaks, as Mark says, can sometimes be very difficult. But the tried and true soapy water spay does work. Somewhat difficult to use when the engine is running though. Use Mark's suggestion of pressurizing the line back toward the compressor.

You can also put a small balloon on the same line that attaches to the input side of the snot bottle. That's the line that goes to the banjo fitting on the compressor. Start the engine and if the balloon inflates, the compressor, shear coupling, output check valve and banjo fitting should be OK.

The banjo fitting on the output check valve of the compressor has crush washers on either side of it. That is where potential leaks usually occur. Tighten the bottom fitting at the banjo fitting.

Dennis

[quote] ---


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

Smash, the 55 is a rather unusual animal in that the air system is pretty much different from one to the next. Some 55's had no air compressor at all! So... it will be hard to find and use a diagram.

Using soapy water you are not going to find a leak from the compressor to the snot valve. Why? Because without the engine running there is no air there to begin with.

Since your aircraft is such an unusual beast, I would suggest that you need to find some adapters that mate to American AN fittings. I made these and they are a God Send.

I take the hose or line off that goes to the snot valve, I then hook up an air bottle running at around 700 PSI. I then start looking for leaks.

Then I do the reverse. I take the line that I took OFF the snot valve that leads back to the compressor, and I inject 700 PSI air into THAT. Usually, I'll find the leak at the banjo fitting.

If you can't do what I am describing above, well... Smash, you really don't have a choice. It's either that, or start dive bombing components. I would not suggest the latter route.

Mark Bitterlich


Sarah Tobin <aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote] Things I tried today...

I was out changing the oil, then degreased and cleaned the engine to get a better look at things in there, had to take a picture, will never see that engine compartment that clean again

Anyway, no obvious tear in any hoses, everything passed the "jiggle test" nothing loose in otherwords. there were no leaks obvious from the soapy water, but didn't try the other method. Put the latex glove on and pulled prop thru, I had a limp glove, didn't do a damn thing, so ....

Will try more tomorrow.

Smash

"A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
[quote] My guess is the "auto shut-off" might be as simple as the pop-off valve, which is in effect, an "auto shut-off". Troubleshooting leaks, as Mark says, can sometimes be very difficult. But the tried and true soapy water spay does work. Somewhat difficult to use when the engine is running though. Use Mark's suggestion of pressurizing the line back toward the compressor.

You can also put a small balloon on the same line that attaches to the input side of the snot bottle. That's the line that goes to the banjo fitting on the compressor. Start the engine and if the balloon inflates, the compressor, shear coupling, output check valve and banjo fitting should be OK.

The banjo fitting on the output check valve of the compressor has crush washers on either side of it. That is where potential leaks usually occur. Tighten the bottom fitting at the banjo fitting.

Dennis

[quote] ---


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:00 am    Post subject: Fuel Cap O ring and Air Compressor Reply with quote

H Sarah,

Attached is a schematic of mine. However, since each airplane was set up
differently when they were imported, most of them are idiosyncratic. The
best solution is to do what I did, which go out to your airplane,
un-cowl it, and trace the air lines from compressor to where they meet
the russian system. I have included the schematic of the factory air
system as well, but note that it DOESN'T include the compressor...

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone have a schematic of the compressor system, I didn't see
much in books I have

*/Scott Poehlmann <scott-p(at)texas.net>/* wrote:



Hi Sarah,

If it has an overboard dump, then I agree that the most likely places
for failure (not necessarily in order) are:
1) at the banjo fitting from the compressor to its output line
2) at any conversion fitting (if one exists) in the line to the
overboard dump valve
3) in the overboard dump valve itself
4) in any fitting after the one-way valve, assuming there is a
one-way
valve between the compressor and the tank (if there isn't, get
one. They
aren't terribly expensive {~$150} and may save your
compressor)--ESPECIALLY the start valve (which is actually behind the
panel on the left) and is a real b*tch to get to.
5) the shear coupling to the compressor

Good luck, I spent the better part of last fall starting my plane
from
scuba bottles whilst trying to psych out a problem which was in the
start valve the whole time. If it turns out to be that, let me
know, and
I'll give you the parts list and plumbing details of the solenoid
start
valve I put on mine to fix the problem.

Scott

Sarah Tobin wrote:
> Yeah, sorry, it dumps overboard. Seems as if the problem is one of
> three things
>
> 1. The dump valve is stuck open
> 2. There is a leak in the line between the pump and the check valve
> 3. Shear shaft is done busted
>
> Would you guys agree?
>
> */Scott Poehlmann /* wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> For the O-rings, I'd start with calling Hubie Tolson (I have his
> number
> around here somewhere if you don't). Failing that, I THINK that
> George
> Coy has some. Worst case, WLAC in England has them at pound-wise
> prices...
>
> Is there a cut-off valve for the compressor? Mine has a solenoid
> set-up
> which dumps overboard unless I actuate a switch to charge the tank.
> Otherwise I am not sure what you mean by an "auto-shut-off". The
> compressor runs all the time the engine is running. It's just a
> matter
> of where the air goes (into the bottle or overboard). Most 55's
> did NOT
> come from the factory with the compressor, so you'll need to go
> and look
> at exactly how yours is plumbed. I can send you a diagram of mine
> if you
> wish, but unless your came into the US through Scott Erickson, it is
> UNLIKELY that your is plumbed the same way...
>
> Scott
>
> Sarah Tobin
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