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phathaway(at)avidyne.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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There are plenty of pictures of the front section of my L-29 in my home
garage. It is a perfect place to do avionics work. Very manageable
assembly in terms of size.
I agree with Bob on the upgrade value philosophy. Consider this:
I bought #52 from Bob. It is such a well made aircraft. Flush riveted.
Built like a tank. Anodized aluminum. No corrosion. No damage.
Methodically kept logs.
It cost less than a used Ford truck.
I have an A&P license, so restoring it to like new mechanical condition
isn't that hard or expensive, just very time consuming.
I could have purchased a Lancair kitplane for $130K and would have
nothing that resembled an aircraft until I had sunk another $200k and 5
years into it.
Everyone I know loves the aircraft and is eager to help restore it. I
think upgrading them makes perfect sense if you plan to keep it.
My $0.02.
Paul
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROBERT
SCHWARTZ
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:37 PM
To: l29-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: New Guy
well some work could be performed in a well equipped garage. (nose
section work) etc. The systems are very different (APU, back up
electrical system, fan jet engine) L-39 is a wonderful aircraft, but not
a home hobbyist project. The L-29 is not for an auto mechanic either.
But is substantially more simple and parts are cheaper and available.
Robert E. Schwartz
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Normally I just lurk here.
If you're going to spend money on an L-29... put in a Viper engine. IMHO
I've seen several VERY nice L-29s that the owner would have taken $40k to
get out of.
Some day, when all of the other jet warbirds are grounded and the L-29 is
still flying by virtue of the genius of its simpleness, the price will start
to come back up, providing that Jet-A is not $10 a gallon by then. But it's
like a roach motel for money now... the money goes in, it's satisfying, but
the money doesn't come back out.
Jon
[quote]From: "ROBERT SCHWARTZ" <schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: l29-list(at)matronics.com
To: <l29-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: New Guy
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:44:58 -0500
If you had to pay for any of it, unless you are just rolling in dough,
it's a waste money that you will never see out of it. When you can buy a
flying
certified good a/c for about 35K. They are great planes though and I
love mine but everytime I think about
doing the same thing and making like an "Oskosh" show plane I stop
myself. I would rather spend the money on a L-39 or T-33. ""
I have to differ with this opinion. You might have $60,000- to $100,000
or a bit more in a L-29 that is in -show plane condition. Whether you
get it all
back or not, you would have a very special one of a kind aircraft to be
quit proud of that would still allow for cheap parts and maintenance and
easy to work on. An L-39 in show plane condition might be
$295,000 -350,000 range or more and the restoration would not be
something you could do in your garage. I saw 17 L-39 at Oshkosh this
year. Only one in genuine military colors. Just 2 L-29 and they were
nice to see. Its not a case of the L-29
being a cheap step child to the L-39. L-29 has its own proud history and
you don't see many nice ones on any FBO ramps. Unforntualy not many
elect to make their L-29 really nice. Most are out of the box flyers.
Two different aircraft, both great in their own right. Safe flying to
all
Bob Schwartz
---
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ainut(at)hiwaay.net Guest
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czech6(at)kellin.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Absolutely.
[quote] ---
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czech6(at)kellin.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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My vote is for a Viper. Of course I'm some-what biased!
Bill
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czech6(at)kellin.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Thats what I asked?
$$$$$$$?
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czech6(at)kellin.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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If you want one, you'll get it. There is always a way to do it. If you really want it. You can't buy a good car for $35000 anymore.
[quote] ---
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RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Flying is barely affordable in a Cessna for me. Figure 1000 hours of 152 time(minimum time for LOA in jet warbird) at 6GPH, $4/gallon. That's $24,000 in fuel, plus $4,000 or more I spent on the SEPPL, and another $5000 for the IFR rating everyone says I should have for a jet warbird. I've spent as much in training cost as the plane costs to buy. Actually more as a renter I would be paying $80/hour wet.
Having said all that..I am building a Mustang II. I should be able to build hours pretty quickly once it's finished. It won't be any cheaper, but it may better prepare me for the speeds of an L-29 than the 152 would. I guess if I want it to happen, it's going to take a lot of green!
Boyce
BTW, the market is right for an L-29 buyer. If I could spare the dough..I'd buy right now!
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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ainut(at)hiwaay.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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nice looking bird. I thought the T-33 was the ones the US astronauts fly
around in; much smaller plane than in the picture.
David M.
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schwartzcompany(at)worldn Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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John>
Cant help it-got to respond !!
I agree about current L29 resale values. Although part of the problem is
that someone keeps selling for these low prices. If you could not buy one
for under $50,000 that would be the new bottom. I have a tiny concern
that the L-39 could eventually find a similar fate. A great great airplane
!!!!!, but the L-39 engine is expensive to replace, (say average $80,000
used but serviceable) ( $135,000 zero overhaul) not so easy to find and will
probably become much more expensive as the fleet of ageing USA L-39 engines
start to run out. All that said, where in the world could you find a
nicer airplane overall !!!!!
From: "Jon Boede" <jonboede(at)hotmail.com>
To: <l29-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: New Guy
[quote]
Normally I just lurk here.
If you're going to spend money on an L-29... put in a Viper engine. IMHO
I've seen several VERY nice L-29s that the owner would have taken $40k to
get out of.
Some day, when all of the other jet warbirds are grounded and the L-29 is
still flying by virtue of the genius of its simpleness, the price will
start to come back up, providing that Jet-A is not $10 a gallon by then.
But it's like a roach motel for money now... the money goes in, it's
satisfying, but the money doesn't come back out.
Jon
>From: "ROBERT SCHWARTZ" <schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: l29-list(at)matronics.com
>To: <l29-list(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: New Guy
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:44:58 -0500
>
>If you had to pay for any of it, unless you are just rolling in dough,
>it's a waste money that you will never see out of it. When you can buy a
>flying
>certified good a/c for about 35K. They are great planes though and I
>love mine but everytime I think about
>doing the same thing and making like an "Oskosh" show plane I stop
> myself. I would rather spend the money on a L-39 or T-33. ""
> I have to differ with this opinion. You might have $60,000- to $100,000
> or a bit more in a L-29 that is in -show plane condition. Whether you
> get it all
> back or not, you would have a very special one of a kind aircraft to be
> quit proud of that would still allow for cheap parts and maintenance and
> easy to work on. An L-39 in show plane condition might be
> $295,000 -350,000 range or more and the restoration would not be
> something you could do in your garage. I saw 17 L-39 at Oshkosh this
> year. Only one in genuine military colors. Just 2 L-29 and they were
> nice to see. Its not a case of the L-29
> being a cheap step child to the L-39. L-29 has its own proud history
> and you don't see many nice ones on any FBO ramps. Unforntualy not
> many elect to make their L-29 really nice. Most are out of the box
> flyers.
>Two different aircraft, both great in their own right. Safe flying to
>all
>
>Bob Schwartz
>
> ---
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Ernie
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 513
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Bob,
I dont know where you've been but I have been trying to sell my 29 for over 2 years. I actually offered to give it away if you took my CJ with it. Out of the blue I got a buyer and I jumped at $45k as if I had won the lottery, and thats for a nice plane with low hours, tail dolly, 3 sets of new tires, and all the manuals. My airplane was a stock Czech bird, one of the first 10 that Bill brought in.
Another buddy of mine bought a show quality L-39 complete with detailed cockpits, Garmin 430's in both cockpits, show quality paint for $250 2 years ago, before prices really tanked.
This is for a plane that gets better fuel mileage, great Air conditioning, Antilock breaks, hots seats and good baggage space. If you have the cash and you really want one, you can find a real nice C model with 1000 hr engines for under $200k.
Other than Bill, there arent many people that know about the airplane and willing to sign off on annuals on L-29's. If you're an A&P well thats a different story.
Good luck if a fuel control unit goes, or the electronic ignition box goes Tango Uniform. Parts are only going to get more and more difficult to find for the 29. Try to buy tires.
I liked my 29 andit was way cool when I bought it 7 years ago, but reality set in, and I was glad that I got some of my money out of it. Anyone who thinks they can get $60k out of their airplane is just not facing facts.
On 7/31/07, ROBERT SCHWARTZ <schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net (schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net)> wrote:[quote] --> L29-List message posted by: "ROBERT SCHWARTZ" <schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net (schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net)>
John>
Cant help it-got to respond !!
I agree about current L29 resale values. Although part of the problem is
that someone keeps selling for these low prices. If you could not buy one
for under $50,000 that would be the new bottom. I have a tiny concern
that the L-39 could eventually find a similar fate. A great great airplane
!!!!!, but the L-39 engine is expensive to replace, (say average $80,000
used but serviceable) ( $135,000 zero overhaul) not so easy to find and will
probably become much more expensive as the fleet of ageing USA L-39 engines
start to run out. All that said, where in the world could you find a
nicer airplane overall !!!!!
From: "Jon Boede" <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)>
To: <l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: New Guy
[quote] --> L29-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" < jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)>
Normally I just lurk here.
If you're going to spend money on an L-29... put in a Viper engine. IMHO
I've seen several VERY nice L-29s that the owner would have taken $40k to
get out of.
Some day, when all of the other jet warbirds are grounded and the L-29 is
still flying by virtue of the genius of its simpleness, the price will
start to come back up, providing that Jet-A is not $10 a gallon by then.
But it's like a roach motel for money now... the money goes in, it's
satisfying, but the money doesn't come back out.
Jon
>From: "ROBERT SCHWARTZ" < schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net (schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net)>
>Reply-To: l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)
>To: < l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)>
>Subject: Re: New Guy
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:44:58 -0500
>
>If you had to pay for any of it, unless you are just rolling in dough,
>it's a waste money that you will never see out of it. When you can buy a
>flying
>certified good a/c for about 35K. They are great planes though and I
>love mine but everytime I think about
>doing the same thing and making like an "Oskosh" show plane I stop
> myself. I would rather spend the money on a L-39 or T-33. ""
> I have to differ with this opinion. You might have $60,000- to $100,000
> or a bit more in a L-29 that is in -show plane condition. Whether you
> get it all
> back or not, you would have a very special one of a kind aircraft to be
> quit proud of that would still allow for cheap parts and maintenance and
> easy to work on. An L-39 in show plane condition might be
> $295,000 -350,000 range or more and the restoration would not be
> something you could do in your garage. I saw 17 L-39 at Oshkosh this
> year. Only one in genuine military colors. Just 2 L-29 and they were
> nice to see. Its not a case of the L-29
> being a cheap step child to the L-39. L-29 has its own proud history
> and you don't see many nice ones on any FBO ramps. Unforntualy not
> many elect to make their L-29 really nice. Most are out of the box
> flyers.
>Two different aircraft, both great in their own right. Safe flying to
>all
>
>Bob Schwartz
>
> ---
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czech6(at)kellin.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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That would be the T-38
---
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czech6(at)kellin.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Is 100K EU about 180K US?
Here they sell for $125k in perfect condition. So he is a little high.
Thanks for the info.
---
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SD737(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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EXACTLY!!!!
They are like cash Dumpsters! If you put money into them you're just throwing it away because the market is SO bad you will Never see your money back out of it.
You would be better off coming here to Reno and going double or nothing!
Oh well, I guess it's all fun!
Happy flying.
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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SD737(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Just wait until you get the fuel bill for the L-29.
I also fly a Lancair 360 which has a Lycoming 180 hp IO360 that burns 9gph and isn't much slower than an L-29 but the fuel bill makes for a HUGE difference!
When I fly a jet that burns 180 gph I'm gonna be flying the L-39.... Higher, faster, further....
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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SD737(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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You can affort to buy an L-29.
The fuel burn/bill/$$$ is a whole different issue.
Four hours of flying in the L-29 equals roughly 640 gallons X $4.00 a gallon = $2,560 which equals me on the beach in Mexico on vacation getting DRUNK!!!
Hmmm...... four hours of jacking around sweating my ass off in the summer months or a week's vacation??
Let me think about that...
Viva Mexico!!!!
Happy Flying guys!
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
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SD737(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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Hi Earnie,
I second that!! You're right on the mark! Fuel is only going to go up and up as the world wide demand increases!
Also, the more fuel goes up, the more these things become "boat anchors".
Pete says he will put his on a post and make a gate guard when the time comes.
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ainut(at)hiwaay.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: New Guy |
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thanks, Bill.
---
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RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: New Guy |
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Man, you guys are a tough crowd! We went from the topic being "new guy" to downing the aircraft we own, or in my case not own, but wished I owned. I've forgoteen now who the "new guy" is, but congratulations on your acquisition, and I hope someday I can share the excitement of being a L-29 owner.
BTW, I bitched earlier about the cost of flying. There are all levels of aircraft with corresponding cost structures. I'll probably alway be in the lower level. I've come to terms with that. BUT, maybe, just maybe, I can fly my Mustang II, and start a collection of static jet warbirds? That could be cool too!
Boyce
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jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co Guest
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: New Guy |
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Agree re the sentiments.
From my side as L29 owner for a couple years now, I love the aircraft and have no plans to sell it, and will happily spend money improving it, even knowing I won’t recover any “investment”.
There are a lot of good things associated with L29.
Low acquisition cost.
Simple and relatively cheap to service / maintain.
It’s a fully aerobatic military jet that is damn fun to fly. Takeoff & initial climb is pedestrian but once you up there and cleaned up its really cool.
If you try and use or compare it to any commuter type aerie you buying the wrong aircraft. If you can spare the cash to buy it, to maintain it properly and fuel it, and you buy it to have fun flying aerobatic sorties and generally misbehaving ( J ) then you won’t be disappointed.
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Sent: 01 August 2007 12:05 PM
To: l29-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: New Guy
Man, you guys are a tough crowd! We went from the topic being "new guy" to downing the aircraft we own, or in my case not own, but wished I owned. I've forgoteen now who the "new guy" is, but congratulations on your acquisition, and I hope someday I can share the excitement of being a L-29 owner.
BTW, I bitched earlier about the cost of flying. There are all levels of aircraft with corresponding cost structures. I'll probably alway be in the lower level. I've come to terms with that. BUT, maybe, just maybe, I can fly my Mustang II, and start a collection of static jet warbirds? That could be cool too!
Boyce
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?L29-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?L29-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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