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EAA Criticism
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Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: EAA Criticism

I assume "Sorry. No Sale." Means you continue to use that paint roller to

describe all CEO's whose companies go under, not just the NWA CEO?



It's one thing to excoriate someone who takes advantage of a bad situation

for personal profit as I presume you think Mr. Steenland did. It is another

thing entirely to smear everyone who is willing to take on a difficult,

often impossible job with the same moral condemnation.



Don't you see the difference? 



I'm sure it is really just a difference of perspective. I see business as

the institution that brings me virtually all of the material and much of the

non-material goods and services that makes my very good life possible, and I

appreciate the risk involved. Some see it as just institutionalized greed. 



Terry





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Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: EAA Criticism

 	  Terry Watson wrote: 	
		  I assume "Sorry. No Sale." Means you continue to use that paint roller to

describe all CEO's whose companies go under, not just the NWA CEO?

	




Please take a moment to reread the sentence because you've badly misinterpreted the sentence.



"Given the slobs out there making million and millions to run their companies into bankruptcy, I can't begrudge him that salary."



None of the CEOs you passionately -- and appropriately defend -- fit that category. 



 	  Quote: 	
		  

It's one thing to excoriate someone who takes advantage of a bad situation for personal profit as I presume you think Mr. Steenland did. It is another thing entirely to smear everyone who is willing to take on a difficult, often impossible job with the same moral condemnation.

	




And, again, the characterization was referencing those CEOS who take advantage of bad situations -- or even create them -- for personal profit. There was nothing in the original sentence that referred to any other CEOs, and so I don't feel compelled to defend the assertion I never made.



I don't view business as institutional greed. But just as I know a good CEO when I see one,  I know what a scumbag looks like too.

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: EAA Criticism

The only position I didn't see was:



Aircraft owner	-21,000	-22,900



Chuck Jensen



--

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: EAA Criticism

Bob, I'm all for letting them do the heavy lifting on the User Fee issue

before we draw-n-quarter them--the problem is Boyer's the only one

that's been doing much lifting.  Prober's been too busy praising the

retiring FAA Skirt.



Chuck Jensen



--

c.ennis(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: EAA Criticism

Mentioning Tom's father, Paul, reminded me of the "Sport Aviation 

Association" which was a try by Paul to get back to the experimental part of 

the aviation family.

 As I recall his last letter to members noted a lack of significant interest 

for him to continue. Perhaps if more of us had joined in, we would have been 

be happier with what Paul was offering.

 Do not archive.



 Charlie Ennis

   RV-6A

lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: EAA Criticism

I certainly do not know why there is so much anger at EAA. The $50 million is Real Estate, not cash.  It is a voluntary organization.

   

  My experience is that EAA has assisted me much more then AOPA.  I was told more than once that EAA is much more effective working behind the scenes and making polite while Boyer is showboating and confrontational.  It probably takes both to some extent.  As for complementing FAA,  think LSA, relaxed medicals, more GPS approaches, etc.

   

  Definitely Do Not Archive

  

Chuck Jensen <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" 



Bob, I'm all for letting them do the heavy lifting on the User Fee issue

before we draw-n-quarter them--the problem is Boyer's  the only one

that's been doing much lifting. Prober's been too busy praising the

retiring FAA Skirt.



Chuck Jensen



--

jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: EAA Criticism

I just don't get how people come to the place where $500,000 + a year 

compensation for CEO's and other business leaders is OK. I do believe in 

performance based pay but that is rare. When $50 million in assets is 

realized, why not $75 million. I fear it's becoming about the money and not 

what the organization can do to further and protect general aviation. Do not 

archive!



Jim Bowen



[quote]Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Re: EAA Criticism Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:50:45 

-0400






I concur that $500K for the size operation is not out of line.  The two

areas of concern is references to "deferred compensation".  What does

that mean and to whom?  And then, of course, nepotism is always an issue

on an organization run by a dominate person.  What exactly does his

father do for $160,000?  How many other brothers, sisters, mothers,

sons, daughters and other misc. kin and buddies are on the payroll?  Are

they earning their keep or just feeding at the trough?



Non-profit management has an even higher fiduciary responsibility than a

publicly held company and massively more so than for a privately held

one.  It would be comforting to see disclosure of all of the

beneficiaries of this non-profit.  If $500K is Proberenzy's

compensation, lock, stock and barrel, that seems reasonable.  If its

just he iceberg showing above the water, then there could be a problem.

Inquiring minds, including dues payers, would like to know!



Chuck Jensen



--

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: EAA Criticism

I am sorry the Sport Aviation Association didn't succeed. I would have 

joined if I had known it existed at the time. I learned of it after it had 

folded.

How did Paul go about recruiting members?



To my knowledge, Tom P. has never built an airplane. Any one know otherwise?

Dale Ensing

do not archive



---

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: Re: EAA Criticism

 	  jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com wrote: 	
		  I just don't get how people come to the place where $500,000 + a year 

compensation for CEO's and other business leaders is OK. 	




As near as I can tell, a sizeable chunk of the people "camping" east of Stits Road fall into that category.



I saw our favorite basketball player traded yesterday. He makes $26 million a year.



Poberezny had a better year. (g)

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: EAA Criticism

I read that letter as sport aviation, not experimental / homebuilder  

aviation.  LSAs, etc.



As far as I'm concerned, the main thrust of the main EAA periodical  

should be experimental aviation.



-J



On Jul 31, 2007, at 7:44 PM, c.ennis wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Mentioning Tom's father, Paul, reminded me of the "Sport Aviation  

 Association" which was a try by Paul to get back to the  

 experimental part of the aviation family.

 As I recall his last letter to members noted a lack of significant  

 interest for him to continue. Perhaps if more of us had joined in,  

 we would have been be happier with what Paul was offering.

 Do not archive.

dale1rv6(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: EAA Criticism

That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess. IMHO

comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of a nation

when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.

Dale



--

jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: EAA Criticism

I think the original question was reasonable -- is Poberezny  

overpaid?  Comparing his salary to the salary of the presidents of  

other similarly-sized organizations is a reasonable way of judging  

his salary.



I didn't quite understand the jabowenjr comment, so I ignored it.



I think Bob is saying, "Yes, Pober's salary is reasonable."  I agree  

with Bob on that.



-J



On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Dale Walter wrote:



[quote] 



 That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess. IMHO

 comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of a  

 nation

 when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.

 Dale



 --

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: Re: EAA Criticism

 	  dale1rv6(at)comcast.net wrote: 	
		  That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess. IMHO

comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of a nation

when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.

Dale-- 	




Ah, I don't worry 'bout stuff like that. Global warming,  the endof cheap oil, the erosion of constitutional rights, and  bacteria run amok will get us before words on an Internet bulletin board will. (g)

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

tcone1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: EAA Criticism

What would Poberezny's salary have to do with RVs?



Tim Cone

do not achive

---

jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: EAA Criticism

If you don't care for the discussion, you can delete it when you see  

the subject line.



I guess I don't understand why some people have such a hard time when  

a topic of conversation slides a bit.  "OMG, those people went off on  

a tangent onto something I don't care about, so they should shut up."



Sigh.



-J



On Aug 1, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Timothy E. Cone wrote:



[quote] 



 What would Poberezny's salary have to do with RVs?



 Tim Cone

 do not achive

 ---

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: EAA Criticism

Additionally there is Adelphia, Delphi,Tyco, Enron, Home Depot and

hundreds of other companies that have paid millions to CEO's to

devastate the companies. Not saying they are all bad, but a good

majority of them are looking out for their golden parachutes rather than

share holder equity.

Dan Lloyd

N289DT RV10E Flying 

Do not archive



--

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: Tom - earns every cent - Airventure gets better every year

I do not begruge Tom a cent of what he earns. I see him as CEO of a major corporation. As one who actually ran a company with 10 employees, I feel that I can truly appreciate the amazing job that he does each year with Airventure. It is the premier aviation event in the US and possibly the world. The planning, logistics, and just schmoozing to get the talent Tom does, wired into the event, is fantastic. Joe whinner is not going to be able to get Steve Fossett, Chuck Yeager, Bob Hoover, or the multitude of volunteers show up for Airventure. Plus he is caring and involved with the actual attendees. Last year my wife (who was just out of hip surgery) and I were running to catch a bus which had left us behind. Tom and his wife actually stopped to pick us up and take us to our destination. Only a fool can challenge the success the Tom and EAA management have had in promoting the Sport Aviation initiative. Kuddos to Tom and EAA management. A proud EAA member #778398

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

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