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Thoughts on stall warning device??
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michaega(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

What is being used for a stall warning device that works good and does not empty my wallet? [quote][b]

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Your eyes and ears.

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

.....and remove your wallet from your back pocket 

  

 John Kerr

  

  res Na  [quote][b]

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Google “angle of attack”  to see some good possibilities.  There will also be some good discussion of these devices that appears with this search.  

     

Randy Daughenbaugh,  N10NH  

Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore  

Home Strip, Grass   Room in Hangar for visitors  

Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip  

Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004  

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kerrjohna(at)comcast.net

 Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:00 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??  

  

     

.....and remove your wallet from your back pocket   

    

   

    

John Kerr  

    

   

  

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_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

On Aug 10, 2007, at 5:22 PM, SUE MICHAELS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   What is being used for a stall warning device that works good and does 

 not empty my wallet?


	


On my model 3, the best stall warning is the popping of the turtledeck. 

I have been wondering what was that noise as I entered a stall and 

asked the list. I finally found out: The turtledeck flexes as the air 

delaminates over it and it makes a popping sound. ... mind you, it's a 

poor warning system since you already stall when you hear it.



Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Again I say, eyes and ears, feel.  with the eyes locate or recognize the angle that is too much, again look out the window.  ears, or feel, you will hear noises when she is ready.  Really now, the plane will shake, when it gets close.  You should go up and do some stalls.  What I found is if you slow the airplane to 60 then slowly pull the stick back and bring the throttle off at the same time, you will not get the plane to stall, it will just hang there, at least this is true with mine.  You need to actually work at getting the plane to stall, go 60 again and pull back on the stick and get an angle of attack on the wings first, then pull back the power, she will vibrate and then drop, make sure the ball is centered, it will just drop straight forward.  Another stall I tried because I do this one all the time is to slow to 60 and do a 90 degree banking turn and keep the power setting alone, supprising enough the plane turned and just shook.  So on this type of turn if you put full power and do a 90 degree banking turn you really pull the g's and have a lot of fun, you sure turn fast.  Good for mountain flying when you get stuck in a bowl, and of course, shoot backs on a runway.



Of course if you are just to scared to learn the stall capability, I guess you can just get an AOA and wait for the buzzer.  I find the kitfox is nible flier and the stalls are hard to get.  THen again I do have VG's on my wings also.

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Just to add another data point; My kitfox will stall with no buffeting in any configuration. The angle of attack is quite high without the flaps but much less so with flaps. Stall recovery is typical with just releasing back pressure on the stick. 



On the other hand, If you're more comfortable with a stall warning then get one.  Don't let anyone shame you out of it.

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Gentle buffeting on the wings  works for me.   Seriously I have never seen a stall horn in a  Kitfox... then again I've only seen a few foxes.  Because I have only flown  the plane on floats and I did have getting enough altitude to feel safe wit a  stall I have yet to stall it.  I keep a good eye on my airspeed before  flare and make sure I have lots of speed before climb out.  I'm sure with  out the 100 or so plus pounds slung a couple of feet below the belly of the  plane acting like a great pendulum the plane would be a lot faster reacting than  it is on floats.  

  

 Noel

  

  

 

 --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Here's a cheap simple stall warning from Aircraft Spruce:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/redstallwarner.php

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

akanka(at)kiamichiwb.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

How far aft of the leading edge did you install the VG's?  I'm going to

install them on mine Model IV 1200.  The propaganda that came with them

suggests 10% of chord aft of the leading edge, and was curious if others had

a better suggestion.

John Hart



--

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

I agree with Louis.  Don't let any one, especially me, shame you out of

installing a warning system if you feel more comfortable just having it

there.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Luis:



How would you mount that device??  The leading edge of the kitfox is the

front spar.  Even mounting a remote vane switch could be a problem.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

 	  Float Flyr wrote: 	
		  

How would you mount that device??  The leading edge of the kitfox is the

front spar.  Even mounting a remote vane switch could be a problem.

- 	




No idea really. I didn't build mine so I have no idea what's under the skin. That's just an example that I picked out from a quick search on AircraftSpruce. It at least shows that a stall warning doesn't have to be expensive. You don't need a full up AOA. Hopefully someone with build experience will chime in here.

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

I was pretty impressed with the cost of a Reserve Lift Indicator made for sale by Kelly Meiste, (815) 684-9922, email: kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com (kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com) . It works via differential pressure using a two-orifice probe that mounts below the wing. The 2” analog gauge is marked in green, yellow, and red segments. I think Kelly was asking $175 for a complete kit. It’s not fancy, but it would get the job done.     [quote][b]

Michael Logan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Seat of your pants.  If you can't tell a Kitfox is  going to stall, you should practice a lot more.

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SUE  MICHAELS

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:23 AM

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Thoughts on stall  warning device??

What is being used for a stall warning device that works good and  does not empty my wallet? [quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

10% back, I got no decrease in top speed, the turns are like on rails, and more stable in rough conditions.  I wouldn't fly without them, oh and about a 4mph lower on stall.  I don't use flaps, so I can't really comment on that, but I did test the stall with flaps and it's 4mph lower as well.  I will add that if you keep your speed above 70 you can do anything you want in the pattern, if you like to knife edge it to the runway, do it, if you want to do a 60degree bank, base to final over the approach end of the runway, 20ft off, do it.  The fox also likes to do flat wing turns, you know all rudder and opposite aileron.  I like doing those 5ft off the runway, cool for spot landings, avoiding birds, things like that.

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

I thought I would add this, might help.  Go down and buy one of those camper levelers and stick it on your left door.  If you have a tail wheel then while it sits on the ground level the bubble and stick it on the front of the door in the middle, that way when you come in to land you can get the proper pitch and adjust the throttle to land.  If you have a nose wheel, then block up the nose to that pitch you want for a good landing on the mains, then stick the level on the door.  You can either hit level during the flair, or level and then do a soft field landing, that's where you use the throttle to land after setting pitch. hope this helps.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

I think the idea is basically a good one.  However I think a bubble level

will be too active to use.  Maybe a fair size pendulum (2-3 in.) shaped like

an arrow head on the glass with the marks either etched into the glass or

better yet placed in position on tape.



Just an idea



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Is the reading on level or a pedulum the same as angle of attack? Stall is a question of AOA rather than level right? Your AOA at a given "level" is going to be higher in a turn then it is going strait. A proper stall warning will let you know when you're about to stall regardless of orientation.

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: Thoughts on stall warning device??

Luis,

You are right - AOA is the angle of the wing compared to the incident air.

It may be the same as level when landing, but can be WAY different at other

times.  I like AOA because it can tell you where you are even if you have

lots of "reserve lift".  But if you wait for buffet and other indicators,

you know you are at stall only when you get there and you have no room.  In

windy conditions, you may want to keep a little more reserve.



It's like getting advice on which bus stop you want.  -  "All you need to do

is get off the bus at the stop just before I do."   By that time it is too

late!



Randy Daughenbaugh,  N10NH

Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore

Home Strip, Grass   Room in Hangar for visitors

Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip

Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

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