Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

B&C SD 8 Alternator

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:36 am Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

Morning, Everyone...



Now that I'm dumping all my remaining vacuum instruments (the one I have 

left!) and the associated pump and gauge, and settling for an all 

electric panel (except for the static gauges), I am starting to look at 

alternator options.



I've kept up on the past discussions here, and Bob's Connection info, 

and have a pretty good

idea of what's involved.



But, I just noticed the B&C model SD-8 alternator that fits on the 

vacuum pump pad!  What a great replacement for a gasket and a cover!



I also see that Bob does mention it's use in one of his articles, but as 

a backup alternator.



Seeing that the original Long Ez plans call out an alternator only as an 

option if you plan on IFR or night flying, or if you use a starter, and 

strongly recommend just the VariEZE solar panel to keep the battery 

charged, has anyone here installed the SD-8 and used it as the main 

unit.  It only has a maximum 10 amp output, and a nominal 8 amp, but I 

would think that would be enough to keep the battery charged and operate 

the newer low current instruments quite well.



I have yet to calculate my panel's consumption (don't  have all the 

instruments yet), let alone the plane's, so it's still in the planning 

stage.  Open to all suggestions.  Redundancy is always best, but if one 

can save some weight and still do the job (I also have two P-mags with 

their own generators so the engine should keep running on the electronic 

ignition even if the battery and alternator go down) then I'm all for it.



Harley Dixon

Long EZ N28EZ

Airport Hangar 29

Canandaigua, NY

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

Good Morning Harley,   

 The B&C 20 ampere unit fits on the same pad. It is a bit heavier but it  is also a more robust looking device. I am very electronically challenged, but I  did install one of the twenty amp units on my airplane about ten years ago. Very  happy with the result.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 8/15/2007 7:41:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  harley(at)AgelessWings.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  But, I    just noticed the B&C model SD-8 alternator that fits on the 

vacuum    pump pad!  What a great replacement for a gasket and a  cover!

	


 





Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:05 am Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

Mornin', Bob...



I guess I didn't look far enough!  Didn't see the 20 amp version!



Now that looks like a winner...guess it pays to ask, doesn't it!



Have to see if I have room for it on the Long between the firewall and 

the case, but at 6", it should fit. Otherwise, I like it.

I see they have a couple of others as well...should have browsed B&Cs 

site before I started asking questions, I guess!



Thanks for the heads up...



Now, back to sealing my driveway today......



Harley Dixon

Long EZ N28EZ

Airport Hangar 29

Canandaigua, NY

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Good Morning Harley,

  

 The B&C 20 ampere unit fits on the same pad. It is a bit heavier but 

 it is also a more robust looking device. I am very electronically 

 challenged, but I did install one of the twenty amp units on my 

 airplane about ten years ago. Very happy with the result.

  

 Happy Skies,



 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8503

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

chasb(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

Harley, et al,



I have a friend with a Pitts who has a SD 8 as his only power source  

other than the battery. He has no electronics other than a radio and  

the starter. His SD 8 is more than adequate to run the radio with  

enough current left over to charge the battery.



The only concern I would have with the SD 8 or the SD 20 as a sole  

power source is that both require fairly high RPM to produce adequate  

current for much of anything. Our usual high amp alternators produce  

enough juice at idle to charge the battery.



Charlie Brame

RV-6A N11CB

San Antonio



--------------------------------------------------



 	  Quote: 	
		   Time: 05:36:52 AM PST US

 From: Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com>

 Subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

 Morning, Everyone...



 Now that I'm dumping all my remaining vacuum instruments (the one I  

 have

 left!) and the associated pump and gauge, and settling for an all

 electric panel (except for the static gauges), I am starting to  

 look at

 alternator options.



 I've kept up on the past discussions here, and Bob's Connection info,

 and have a pretty good

 idea of what's involved.



 But, I just noticed the B&C model SD-8 alternator that fits on the

 vacuum pump pad!  What a great replacement for a gasket and a cover!



 I also see that Bob does mention it's use in one of his articles,  

 but as

 a backup alternator.



 Seeing that the original Long Ez plans call out an alternator only  

 as an

 option if you plan on IFR or night flying, or if you use a starter,  

 and

 strongly recommend just the VariEZE solar panel to keep the battery

 charged, has anyone here installed the SD-8 and used it as the main

 unit.  It only has a maximum 10 amp output, and a nominal 8 amp, but I

 would think that would be enough to keep the battery charged and  

 operate

 the newer low current instruments quite well.



 I have yet to calculate my panel's consumption (don't  have all the

 instruments yet), let alone the plane's, so it's still in the planning

 stage.  Open to all suggestions.  Redundancy is always best, but if  

 one

 can save some weight and still do the job (I also have two P-mags with

 their own generators so the engine should keep running on the  

 electronic

 ignition even if the battery and alternator go down) then I'm all  

 for it.



 Harley Dixon

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

At 07:19 AM 8/16/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Harley, et al,



I have a friend with a Pitts who has a SD 8 as his only power source

other than the battery. He has no electronics other than a radio and

the starter. His SD 8 is more than adequate to run the radio with

enough current left over to charge the battery.



The only concern I would have with the SD 8 or the SD 20 as a sole

power source is that both require fairly high RPM to produce adequate

current for much of anything. Our usual high amp alternators produce

enough juice at idle to charge the battery.


	


    Which is no worse than generators used to offer. There

    are hundreds of OBAM light aircraft flying with vacuum

    pump driven alternator products from B&C as their sole

    source of engine driven power. These are, of course,

    mostly day VFR aircraft. A few night VFR too . . . but

    if one had LED based position and strobes, then perhaps

    night VFR on 8A would be quite comfortably managed.



    It can be done now and is going to get easier in the

    near future.



    Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

jmfpublic(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

Bob wrote: "if one had LED based position and strobes, then  perhaps

    night VFR on 8A would be quite comfortably  managed."

  

 This is a good point, and opens up the topic of LED position lights.   I have a Jabiru J400, and the alternator is good for 20 amps max, closer to 15  amps continuous.  I had planned to put an SD20 alternator on the crank  splined shaft to get more total power, but the complication of two alternators  and two batteries seemed far too great for what will be mainly a day and night  VFR plane with pretensions.  

  

 The Whelan strobe and position light system has two lamps per  wingtip and the strobe supply.  Each lamp is two amps, and the strobe  supply is 6 amps.  Yikes!  That is 14 amps for running lights.   The gold plated pins that go into DB connectors and also the circular  plastic locking connectors are very easy to use, but should not be used for much  over 4 amps.  I could parallel these critters, but that gets to be more  work.  By going to the LED system from either Kunzleman or GS, the current  draw is  between 150 and 300 ma per wingtip.  The strobe systems  run 2 to 4 amps.  

  

 Are these wingtip nav lights equivalent to the Whelan incandescent?  I  have bought both GS and Kunztleman systems for testing.  I just made a  simple turntable marked off in degrees to rotate the wingtip unit to  measure lux output vs. angle.  I'm using the nice primer on lighting  requirements that Eric Jones posted on his website,  Perihelion Designs.  http://www.periheliondesign.com/

  

 To measure the light output, I got a lux meter, calibrated in lux.   Photographic light meters can be converted from exposure value to lux, but these  meters are intrinsically logarithmic in response, and I don't trust  it.

  

 The horizontal plane measurement will be relatively easy, but the vertical  plane may be harder.  Eric himself does not believe that present commercial  units meet the FARs, but for experimental, they do not need to.  Of course,  the low power strobes don't, but any strobe is far better than none, and  the logarithmic response of the eye comes to our rescue here.

  

 James Foerster,  J400,  wiring.    

  

  

   [quote][b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:22 am Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

8/20/2007



Hello James, You wrote: "Eric himself does not believe that present 

commercial units meet the FARs, but for experimental, they do not need to."



I am questioning your statement that stobe and position lights installed on 

amateur built experimental aircraft do not need to meet FAR requirements. 

What is your basis for that statement?



A) Each amateur built experimental aircraft will have a set of Operating 

Limitations that are part of that aircraft's special airworthiness 

certificate. The Operating Limitations will include the words:

 "After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped 

for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft 

is to be operated under VFR, day only."



B) FAR Sec. 91.205 paragraphs (c) (1) and (2) read:



"(c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the following 

instruments and equipment are required:



(2) Approved position lights.



(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on 

all U.S.-registered civil aircraft......skip....."



C) Here is a quote from the introduction to my table on the subject of 

amateur built aircraft equipment requirements:



 "The builder should note that some items required by the FAR's are 

described in the FAR's as needing to be approved, but since there are no 

certification standards established for amateur built experimental aircraft, 

no formal individual item approval, such as meeting a TSO (Technical 

Standard Order) or FAR Part 23, is required. However certain items must 

interface properly with ATC (Air Traffic Control), other aircraft, or other 

entities external to the aircraft. Transponders, communication radios, 

exterior lighting and ELT's (Emergency Locator Transmitters) are examples of 

such equipment. Therefore, the builder can expect that the initial 

airworthiness inspection of his aircraft will require evidence that this 

type of equipment in the aircraft is acceptable to the FAA."



D) It would appear that the inspector performing the original airworthiness 

inspection of an amateur built experimental aircraft would have the 

prerogative of insisting that the strobe and position lights of that 

aircraft (if installed) meet the requirements of FAR Part 23 regarding 

strobe and position light performance. The presumption being made that the 

installation of such lights indicates an intention to fly at night on some 

occasions.



Your comments?



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and 

understand knowledge."



---------------------------------   -----------------------------



Time: 01:57:41 PM PST US

From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: B&C SD 8 Alternator



Bob wrote: "if one had LED based position and strobes, then perhaps

    night VFR on 8A would be quite comfortably managed."



This is a good point, and opens up the topic of LED position lights.  I

have a Jabiru J400, and the alternator is good for 20 amps max, closer

to 15 amps continuous.  I had planned to put an SD20 alternator on the

crank splined shaft to get more total power, but the complication of two

alternators and two batteries seemed far too great for what will be

mainly a day and night VFR plane with pretensions.



The Whelan strobe and position light system has two lamps per wingtip

and the strobe supply.  Each lamp is two amps, and the strobe supply is

6 amps.  Yikes!  That is 14 amps for running lights.  The gold plated

pins that go into DB connectors and also the circular plastic locking

connectors are very easy to use, but should not be used for much over 4

amps.  I could parallel these critters, but that gets to be more work.

By going to the LED system from either Kunzleman or GS, the current draw

is  between 150 and 300 ma per wingtip.  The strobe systems run 2 to 4

amps.



Are these wingtip nav lights equivalent to the Whelan incandescent?  I

have bought both GS and Kunztleman systems for testing.  I just made a

simple turntable marked off in degrees to rotate the wingtip unit to

measure lux output vs. angle.  I'm using the nice primer on lighting

requirements that Eric Jones posted on his website, Perihelion Designs.

http://www.periheliondesign.com/



To measure the light output, I got a lux meter, calibrated in lux.

Photographic light meters can be converted from exposure value to lux,

but these meters are intrinsically logarithmic in response, and I don't

trust it.



The horizontal plane measurement will be relatively easy, but the

vertical plane may be harder.  Eric himself does not believe that

present commercial units meet the FARs, but for experimental, they do

not need to.  Of course, the low power strobes don't, but any strobe is

far better than none, and the logarithmic response of the eye comes to

our rescue here.



James Foerster,  J400,  wiring.

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

jmfpublic(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: B&C SD 8 Alternator

OC wrote



8/20/2007

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hello James, You wrote: "Eric himself does not believe that present

 commercial units meet the FARs, but for experimental, they do not need 

 to."



 I am questioning your statement that stobe and position lights installed 

 on

 amateur built experimental aircraft do not need to meet FAR requirements.

 What is your basis for that statement?


	


My basis was misremembering your original explaination-sorry.  Thanks for 

setting the record straight once again.  That said, I am trying to measure 

the available commercial units to see how close they come.



Since that post, my sources tell me that the inspectors for exerimental and 

amateur built aircraft are taking a closer, and more jaundiced, look at the 

LED position lights.  I did see some units molded into the wing at the last 

Oshkosh that clearly did not meet the field of view requirements, although 

brightness is impossible to judge in the daylight.



Jim

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum