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Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

At 09:03 AM 8/15/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Recently I had two of the cross brace cables fail on my Aerocet 

floats because the nicopress sleeves slipped on the cable, caused by 

not being crimped properly when manufactured.


	


Paul,

         Thanks for the pictures, without them your diagnosis would 

have been wrong and you would have had more failures. Your nico 

sleeve failed because it was on 1x19 wire. Nico sleeves are intended 

solely for 7x19 wire and should NEVER be used on 1x19! (Yes, that's 

CAPITAL N - NEVER! Some people try two sleeves on 1x19, thinking that 

will work. DON'T DO IT! You can also use them on 7x7, but you 

shouldn't be using 7x7 for structural applications anyway.) ANY 

STRUCTURAL 1X19 WIRE TERMINATED WITH NICO SLEEVES SHOULD BE 

IMMEDIATELY REPLACED BY 1X19 WITH SWAGED AIRCRAFT FITTINGS.

         If you require references I'll dig them up, but I know this 

well, having worked in yacht rigging and design for 20 years. I also 

can't tell you, off the top of my head, what fraction of the wire's 

capability a 1x19 nico will carry, since we never did it; but I saw 

many failures, mostly Hobie cat rigs.

         Now I know this is going to require some work on your part, 

since your tabs may not provide enough clearance for the air-fork 

clevis, but please take the time to do it right. And please spread 

the word. If your hardware came from Aerocet, you might let them know 

that they have taken on excess liability in this regard.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

Thanks for the information Michel.  You sailing enthusiasts apparently know 

a lot more about nicopress failures than the rest of us (Guy Buchanan pretty 

much said the same thing, and has a background in boats as well).  So I am 

looking into alternatives for my cables.



Sharing information is a great thing!  Thanks again for sharing what you 

know.



Paul Seehafer

Kitfox IV-1200 912ul Aerocet Amphibs

---

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av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

Guy,



 I never knew anything about what you are saying here.  So thank you for

 informing me.  I also had a friend tell me he converted to threaded rod 

like

 is used on larger floats.  I think that will be the route I will take.  I'm

 currently checking availability.



 For what it's worth, I did test the new cables I made up and they passed 

the

 1200 pound pull test listed for 1/8" wire.  But as you say, if I shouldn't

 be using this setup, I will convert either to the threaded rod or swage on

 different ends.



 It's simply amazing what one can learn by sharing information...



 Thanks again for the info.



 Paul Seehafer

Kitfox IV-1200 912ul Aerocet Amphibs

[quote] ---

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peterc(at)pipcom.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

" For what it's worth, I did test the new cables I made up and they passed

 	  Quote: 	
		   the

 1200 pound pull test listed for 1/8" wire.  But as you say, if I shouldn't

 be using this setup, I will convert either to the threaded rod or swage on

 different ends."


	


Paul, I think the message was to not use 1x19; not that nicopress on all 

cable is bad. This is good news in that 1x19 is terrible to work with 

compared to 7x19 of even a larger size.



I am testing a stainless 3/16 rod system that is effectively one long 

turnbuckle.



Peter

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

I have the same cables on my floats.  The NICO press looks perfect.  My

plane is still low time and I don't fly in much wind so I'm going to wait

till the winter to replace the cables.  I'll put that job in my journey log

so I won't forget.  I'm also going to put a close inspection of the NICO

press fittings in my pre flight check list.



Noel



[quote] --

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

Noel,



At minimum, BEFORE YOU FLY AGAIN, measure the crimps.  Mine looked perfect 

too.  They were pretty as can be and covered with a nice heat shrink rubber. 

But those perfect crimps were the wrong size.  Being they weren't tight on 

the cable, the cable slid through the fitting when under a large load.  You 

do not want to have happen what happened to me.  I was lucky as no damage to 

the airplane.  But it could have easily been disastrous!!!!  Seriously, this 

could be a fatal accident if conditions were right.  If these cables were to 

fail like mine did on a step taxi or early takeoff run, likely the airplane 

would cartwheel.  Yes, CARTWHEEL!



I don't want to see anyone get hurt over such a stupid, easy-to-fix problem. 

So at least take the time to measure them with a nicopress go-no go gauge. 

Someone around your airport probably has one.  If not, just recrimp them and 

I'm sure they will be fine.  Just make sure you use the right size crimper. 

On the telephone company style crimper tool I used to recrimp two of mine 

after my incident, it was the second one in from the tip, I believe it was 

marked with an "M", (but I'm not certain on that, so please make sure it is 

the one for 1/8" cable).  I absolutely would not fly a set of these floats 

unless I knew those nicopresses were crimped properly.  And it's not a big 

deal.  Any aircraft repair shop will have the tools, and it will take no 

more than 10-15 minutes total.  And you don't even have to take anything 

apart.



None of my crimps passed the gauge test.  So it isn't IF your cables will 

fail, it's WHEN!  And let me tell you when it happens, you will remember me 

trying to tell you all this.



Sorry for being abrupt. I don't want to see any of my buddies endure the 

stress I did from the situation.  Much less get hurt.



Paul Seehafer

---

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peterc(at)pipcom.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

It looks like we do have a difference of opinion here since Paul is saying 

do the Nicopress sleeves correctly to fix the problem and Guy is saying no 

Nico with 1x19.



Guy you offered references and I for one, while not doubting you, would 

appreciate more data.

Many thanks

Peter



---

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:22 am Post subject: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!!

Paul do you know what the size of the properly crimped fitting is?  I don't

have a terminal (go-no go) gauge but I do have several sets of Vernier

callipers.

Noel

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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