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Dimple challenged tonight

 
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rleffler



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:16 pm    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect, Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Any chance you can drill it to a 30 and use an oops rivet?

Michael

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect, Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

<![if !supportLists]>1.  <![endif]>The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

<![if !supportLists]>2.  <![endif]>Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

<![if !supportLists]>3.  <![endif]>Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob



[quote][b]


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papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

We’ve all been there. Looks like you can drill it larger and use an oops rivet. If you can keep it smooth and the trailing edge is not out of whack, it’ll fly. Keep on building.

Rick
40397

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight


While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect, Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

1. The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

2. Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

3. Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob



[quote][b]


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rleffler



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:14 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

My concern is that the where the other hole is located is right at the rim of the dimple. It appears that the factory head, even for an oops rivet may not cover the mistake. Also, this is the bottom skin, so it should have the shop head of the rivet on this side (remember this is the trailing edge). The shop head of an oops rivet will certainly be larger.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:42 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



Any chance you can drill it to a 30 and use an oops rivet?

Michael

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect, Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob


Quote:
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0
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1
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2
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[quote][b]


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Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:58 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Bob,

I ended up filling all of the trailing edge rivets with either metal filler (Evercoat) before priming of with polyester filler (Easy Sand) after priming. You may be able to just fill this during finishing.

John Testement
jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com (jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com)
40321
Richmond, VA
Paint prep, interior, and LOTS of little stuff
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight


My concern is that the where the other hole is located is right at the rim of the dimple. It appears that the factory head, even for an oops rivet may not cover the mistake. Also, this is the bottom skin, so it should have the shop head of the rivet on this side (remember this is the trailing edge). The shop head of an oops rivet will certainly be larger.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:42 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



Any chance you can drill it to a 30 and use an oops rivet?

Michael

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect, Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob


Quote:
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0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4
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5No virus found in this incoming message. size=2>Version: 7.5.484 /
8/28/2007 4:29 PM
[quote][b]


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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:39 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

As was already mentioned, it is the bottom skin, so the shop head of the
rivet will fill it. You can either use an Oops rivet or just use a longer
#3 rivet to fill the additional area. If you are worried about looks,
that will probably be filled when you fill the seam between the fairing
and the skin on the elevator. I don't know that I would be too worried
about the structural aspect of it. If you were worried, then you could
add an additional hole between that and the next good hole, although this
might be best done after the trailing edge is finished, in which case you
would need to machine countersink both sides, in which case the shop head
might not hold well on the bottom skin anyway. I doubt it is worth
replacing the skin, but that's up to you.

In the future, if you miss a hole, make sure to do it in a place that can
be easily filled with a simple rivet through the skin. Smile

do not archive

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
352-427-0285

John Testement wrote:
Quote:
Bob,

I ended up filling all of the trailing edge rivets with either metal
filler
(Evercoat) before priming of with polyester filler (Easy Sand) after
priming. You may be able to just fill this during finishing.

John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com"jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Paint prep, interior, and LOTS of little stuff
do not archive

_____

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight

My concern is that the where the other hole is located is right at the rim
of the dimple. It appears that the factory head, even for an oops rivet
may
not cover the mistake. Also, this is the bottom skin, so it should have
the
shop head of the rivet on this side (remember this is the trailing edge).
The shop head of an oops rivet will certainly be larger.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:42 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight

Any chance you can drill it to a 30 and use an oops rivet?

Michael

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight

While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was
pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect,
Murphy
showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but
you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This
is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

1. The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

2. Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

3. Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep
things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com


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ator?RV10-List


"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com

8/28/2007
4:29 PM

8/28/2007
4:29 PM


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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:22 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Like everyone else is saying, rivet it and move on, you will have proseal and several other rivets to hold the trailing edge together. But in my opinion, I would not use an oops in the trailing edge because you would have to enlarge the hole in the wedge, and this is already a tight area. I would do as Jesse recommends and put in a slightly longer rivet, and be careful when setting it, so it does not cleat over and then fill the exposed hole, which is already backed by the wedge with proseal and sand it flat.
Just my .02
Dan
N289DT RV10E

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight


While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect, Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob



[quote][b]


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

If you use an oops on the wedge, you will end up with the shop head side being way too big on the backside that is exposed for people to see, IE it will be real easy to see a -4 shop head when everything else is a -3. If the small extra dimple is bothering you, wait until you have a -4 in a line of -3's....but by the time you get to the end you will have forgotten about it, right up until Smoozer comes up and looks at the trailing edge and asks what you did there! LOL
Dan


From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight


My concern is that the where the other hole is located is right at the rim of the dimple. It appears that the factory head, even for an oops rivet may not cover the mistake. Also, this is the bottom skin, so it should have the shop head of the rivet on this side (remember this is the trailing edge). The shop head of an oops rivet will certainly be larger.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:42 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



Any chance you can drill it to a 30 and use an oops rivet?

Michael

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect, Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn’t all that good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it’s now elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of the elevator.

I see my options as:

<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>Find a way to make a repair that doesn’t look too bad.

<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob


Quote:
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0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4
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5 [quote][b]


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Kearney(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:46 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Hmmm
6nbsp;
What is the roleof the proseal in this aplicaton E I would hav thought that it is not structural but is merely holding the parts in alignment when setting up prior to rivetting etc E
6nbsp;
Inquiring minds need to know E E E E
6nbsp;
Les Kearney
340643

---


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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

flip the rivet over and have the smaller rivet head on the top side. Tim and others have riveted in opposite directions with their trailing edges so it's not uncommon.
Been there myself than when all was done I realized I couldn't even find some of my mistakes unless I specifically look for it.
Pascal

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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Correct.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:45 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight


Hmmm



What is the roleof the proseal in this aplicaton. I would hav thought that it is not structural but is merely holding the parts in alignment when setting up prior to rivetting etc.



Inquiring minds need to know....



Les Kearney

#40643

---


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rleffler



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:22 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Actually, Rick has given a suggestion that hasn't been mentioned here yet. Since he fiberglassed his tips, the last rivet will be hidden under the transition, so whether or not I use a longer rivet or an oops rivet, it would be hidden and add additional support.

The lesson I learned that if you get tired, just stop, even if you only have a little bit more to complete the task at hand.

Thanks for all the feedback!
Quote:

From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Date: 2007/08/29 Wed AM 08:30:57 EST
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight

If you use an oops on the wedge, you will end up with the shop head side
being way too big on the backside that is exposed for people to see, IE
it will be real easy to see a -4 shop head when everything else is a -3.
If the small extra dimple is bothering you, wait until you have a -4 in
a line of -3's....but by the time you get to the end you will have
forgotten about it, right up until Smoozer comes up and looks at the
trailing edge and asks what you did there! LOL
Dan



_____

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



My concern is that the where the other hole is located is right at the
rim of the dimple. It appears that the factory head, even for an oops
rivet may not cover the mistake. Also, this is the bottom skin, so it
should have the shop head of the rivet on this side (remember this is
the trailing edge). The shop head of an oops rivet will certainly be
larger.



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:42 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



Any chance you can drill it to a 30 and use an oops rivet?



Michael



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight



While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and
was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect,
Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn't all that
good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it's now
elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of
the elevator.



I see my options as:



1. The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.



2. Find a way to make a repair that doesn't look too bad.



3. Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will
keep things together.



Thoughts, comments?



Thanks,



Bob









http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com




__________ NOD32 2490 (20070829) Information __________











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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

It is only there for alignment during the riveting, but it will also add some adhesion, plus it will fill the hole and is sandable/ paintable.
Dan

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:45 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight

Hmmm

What is the roleof the proseal in this aplicaton. I would hav thought that it is not structural but is merely holding the parts in alignment when setting up prior to rivetting etc.

Inquiring minds need to know....

Les Kearney
#40643

---


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AV8ORJWC



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:29 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Proseal has no effective purpose in the assemblage of a structural member. It has lots of great uses but this would not be one. Larger rivets when used on control surfaces create balance issues which VANS will tell you are not important. Then Ken Scott can repeat his presentation on “Flutter”.

Bondo is cosmetic. It brings back memories of fiberglass resin being used for everything back in the 60’s. Enough has been said to allow Bob the chance to do it right.

John
Do not Archive


From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:45 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight


Hmmm



What is the roleof the proseal in this aplicaton. I would hav thought that it is not structural but is merely holding the parts in alignment when setting up prior to rivetting etc.



Inquiring minds need to know....



Les Kearney

#40643

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carlosh(at)sec-engr.com
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

/"it is not structural but is merely holding the parts in alignment when
setting up prior to riveting"/

Almost verbatim from Ken at Vans when I called on a VERY similar question.

Carlos
LES KEARNEY wrote:
[quote] Hmmm

What is the roleof the proseal in this aplicaton. I would hav thought
that it is not structural but is merely holding the parts in alignment
when setting up prior to rivetting etc.

Inquiring minds need to know....

Les Kearney
#40643

---


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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Dimple challenged tonight Reply with quote

Exactly my opinion aswell.

One additional thing you can do is glue in the fiberglass wingtip to take
more of the strain off the corner rivet with the bad hole. Make sure to glue
both rt and lf wingtips to keep it all syimetrical. make sure your botched
dimple fits well into the wedge countersink!!!!!!

This will not even show if you do a good job.

Remember, In WWll, a bullet hole in the skins didn't ground a plane and they
didn't put a new skin on either.

John G. 409 Hiatus, Last soaring day coming up this weekend.
Quote:
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Dimple challenged tonight
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:22:17 -0400

Like everyone else is saying, rivet it and move on, you will have
proseal and several other rivets to hold the trailing edge together. But
in my opinion, I would not use an oops in the trailing edge because you
would have to enlarge the hole in the wedge, and this is already a tight
area. I would do as Jesse recommends and put in a slightly longer rivet,
and be careful when setting it, so it does not cleat over and then fill
the exposed hole, which is already backed by the wedge with proseal and
sand it flat.
Just my .02
Dan
N289DT RV10E

_____

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: Dimple challenged tonight

While dimpling the skins of the elevator, I started getting tired and
was pushing myself to complete the tasks at hand. As you might suspect,
Murphy showed up and I screwed up. The attached picture isn't all that
good, but you can clearly see that I missed the hole and it's now
elongated. This is the bottom outside corner of the trailing edge of
the elevator.

I see my options as:

1. The anal perfectionist in me wants to order a new skin.

2. Find a way to make a repair that doesn't look too bad.

3. Whatcha worried about, just keep building, the proseal will
keep things together.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks,

Bob



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