Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Static ports
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:43 am    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

I am planning on fitting the Dynon AOA Pitot head to the 601XL. This does not have a static port, so I will fit ports on either side of the fuselage.

I understand the location is critical, so does anyone know where I should put them (practical suggetsions only - this is a family list!!).

I have tried the obvious line of e-mailing Zenith, but no response at all.

Dave Johnson

CH601XL form a CZAW kit

[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
DaveG601XL



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: Static ports Reply with quote

Dave,

I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing.

Good luck,


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

Measurement I use in 150mm down from the upper longerons and 150 mm back
from the firewall rivet line. Ensure to install two, one on either side
of cabin.

Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com

--


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

Why not install the Zenith supplied combo pitot and static source on the same or the other wing? The pitot could be valved to provide an alternate incase the Dynon pitot eats a bug or something. Seems easier than researching a good static point on the fuselage.

Dred

---- Dave Johnson <david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com> wrote:
Quote:
I am planning on fitting the Dynon AOA Pitot head to the 601XL. This does not have a static port, so I will fit ports on either side of the fuselage.

I understand the location is critical, so does anyone know where I should put them (practical suggetsions only - this is a family list!!).

I have tried the obvious line of e-mailing Zenith, but no response at all.

Dave Johnson

CH601XL form a CZAW kit


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
Terry Phillips



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

Dave

I am planning on using the Dynon AOA Pitot also and using the dual static port kit from Van's ($19). I hope you'll post a photo or two of the pitot installation after you get it in and working. I'm thinking of adding in the surplus differential pressure gage that is commonly used as an LRI idicator and using the Dynon EFIS to calibrate a scale for the gage. (I'm paranoid about failures of electronic gear and like analog backups.)

Terry


At 10:42 AM 9/4/2007 +0100, you wrote:
Quote:
I am planning on fitting the Dynon AOA Pitot head to the 601XL. This does not have a static port, so I will fit ports on either side of the fuselage.

I understand the location is critical, so does anyone know where I should put them (practical suggetsions only - this is a family list!!).

I have tried the obvious line of e-mailing Zenith, but no response at all.

Dave Johnson

CH601XL form a CZAW kit


Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ [quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Static ports Reply with quote

DrEd, that's a great idea IF you didn't seal up the wings 3 years ago.

Terry, A back-up for the AOA really? While nice it is hardly even bordering on critical.

Mark, Thanks. I've been looking for a place to put the static ports in for the exact same reason as Dave.


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

Zodie-
What if they're integral with the pitot? Per Zenith, the attached.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
---


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List



Lt_Wing_Pitot.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  34.74 KB
 Viewed:  568 Time(s)

Lt_Wing_Pitot.jpg


Back to top
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

That will work just fine Bill. The fuselage mount is for those who only
have a Pitot tube only. Or an AOA.

Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president(at)can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
--


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:21 am    Post subject: Static Ports Reply with quote

DAVE and TERRY: I have the Dynon AoA and I'm sorry I paid the money for it. (This in a 601XL) I've replaced everything from the pitot on in while trying to get it to work effectively. It's been calibrated by experienced test pilots a number of times. It jumps, it twitters, it bounces around. Any "reading" you extrapolate is by eyeball averaging the jumping around over a range. And at that point in the flight you have better uses for your eyeballs! Even an experienced Navy carrier pilot laughed at trying to use it to maintain a constant angle of attack. For me, it's useless. From my experience, I wish I'd have spent the money elsewhere (specifically on a backup AI of some sort.)
That said, I plan to go flying on Thursday. I'll take pictures of the static ports and post them.
--
Frank Derfler

-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com

- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM

-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com

-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Static ports Reply with quote

Frank, have you talked to Dynon about the problem and if so what did they say?

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kensmith(at)springnet1.co
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

Dynon had a software update several years ago to eliminate the problem
of erratic angle-of-attack readings.
The location of the pitot also plays a major role in the proper indications.

Gig Giacona wrote:

Quote:


Frank, have you talked to Dynon about the problem and if so what did they say?

--------
W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132881#132881







- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:24 pm    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

Hi David,

Actually, it seems Nick is not an expert on this particular
subject. The position of static ports is indeed critical if you want
accurate readings on your instruments. You want to place the static
ports somewhere so that there is no ram air pressure going into them
or vacuum created around them. The position you mentioned, aft of
the wing on the fuselage side, would probably have some vacuum
because of the ever narrowing fuselage at that point. If you want to
put the static ports on the fuselage side, I think you should find a
location where the fuselage is exactly parallel to the air flow in flight.

The pitot/static probe provided with the XL kit has three static
ports located around a small tube near the ram air probe. This
should indeed provide an unbiased measure point for static air pressure.

Paul
XL fuselage

At 04:00 AM 9/4/2007, you wrote:
Quote:
Dave,

I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this
year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that
critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing.

Good luck,

--------
David Gallagher


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

In a Way both Nick and Paul are correct even though it seems to be a
differing opinion. I discussed this with Chris and he explained it by
stating that there is a small boundary layer adhered to the fuselage
sides that resides a dead static pressure air. As long as a force is not
applied in a side load and the static port is installed flush with the
skins then it will work in almost any position. Though the best area I
have seen is in the Fuselage cabin area near the pilots knee. I have
located both of my static ports 150 mm back from the firewall rivet line
and 150mm down from the Longerons.

Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Static Ports Reply with quote

For those who were asking about the positioning of static ports, I went flying today and took some photos. These photos show how AMD does it on their manufactured version of the 601.

Also, on the Angle of Attack indicator option for the Dynon, I shot a short movie showing how mine twitches. I need to strongly emphasize that overall I love the Dynon and feel that is a great product. It performs well at an excellent price. But, take a look at the twitching AoA indicator and tell me if that's how it ought to be. I'd be happy to hear all theories.

Gig, Dynon has supplied replacement parts including a new pitot. I'm due for a factory annual next month, so we'll hit it again. Oh yes, someone asked about software versions.. I am one version behind. It's tough finding a laptop with a serial port anymore!

See the pictures and movie at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com
--
Frank Derfler

-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com

- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM

-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com

-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Static Ports Reply with quote

> It's tough finding a laptop with a serial port anymore!

Have you tried a USB-to-serial adapter to give your newish laptop a serial port? Any CompUSA (or maybe Radio Shack) should have one.

-- Craig
[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

Many thanks to everyone who responded to my request for information on
static ports.

Now all I have to do is persuade the PFA (I'm in the UK) to allow me to make
the changes!

Dave Johnson

601XL from a CZAW kit

do not archive

---


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:24 am    Post subject: Static Ports Reply with quote

Frank: > "It's tough finding a laptop with a serial port anymore!"

Craig: >"Have you tried a USB-to-serial adapter to give your newish laptop a serial
port? Any CompUSA (or maybe Radio Shack) should have one."

Craig, thanks for the suggestion. AMD provided the USB/Serial adapter and brought it out as a USB plug in the panel right under the Dynon. (You can just make it out in the movie on my blog) That's a good idea for any builder using any glass panel system.

My rub is in getting the Dynon update software, very nice but monolithic and not flexible, to recognize the USB-serial driver as a valid port. Been through two "kits" (both Chinese manf: "sun flower moon" etc.) with various revisions of their USB-serial drivers. After much research I believe I would have to change the laptop OS to Windows XP and that would be a hassle! Then, there were USB cable connector issues I have not bothered to master. I let the folks at AMD, who do it a several times a month, update me.

If you get the OS and drivers right and the serial cable right, then updating from the laptop's USB port to the Dynon's serial port is a piece of cake. A hands-off no-brainer. Do it once (keep the same laptop and cable) and you'll always be able to do it. But, the first time can be a challenge.
--
Frank Derfler

-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com

- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM

-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com

-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
Terry Phillips



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Static ports Reply with quote

At 01:42 PM 9/4/2007 -0700, Gig wrote:
Quote:
Terry, A back-up for the AOA really? While nice it is hardly even
bordering on critical.

Well, Gig, I never suggested that it was critical. And, you're right--it's
not. But, I've already got the gage, I think I have the space on the panel,
so, I think I'll do it, just because it is nice.

I also plan to put in an analog altimeter and air speed indicator, even
though the Dynon or GRT EFIS provide the same data. If I was a very
experienced pilot, or even a really good "natural" pilot, I probably
wouldn't bother. But I'm planning on getting from ~160 hrs to a life time
of flying in my little 601, and I'll be more comfortable seeing those
familiar analog gages on the panel. And, I know they'll still be working if
the electronics die for whatever reason. If I had infinite funds, I'd
probably put in a duplicate EFIS with some sort of backup power supply.
But, for me, I think the analog gages will provide an adequate, and
affordable, comfort factor. It makes sense to me. I trust you'll put in
whatever makes sense to you.

At 08:19 AM 9/5/2007 -0400, Frank wrote:
Quote:
DAVE and TERRY: I have the Dynon AoA and I'm sorry I paid the money for
it. (This in a 601XL) I've replaced everything from the pitot on in
while trying to get it to work effectively. It's been calibrated by
experienced test pilots a number of times. It jumps, it twitters, it
bounces around. Any "reading" you extrapolate is by eyeball averaging the
jumping around over a range. And at that point in the flight you have
better uses for your eyeballs! Even an experienced Navy carrier pilot
laughed at trying to use it to maintain a constant angle of attack. For
me, it's useless. From my experience, I wish I'd have spent the money
elsewhere (specifically on a backup AI of some sort.)
That said, I plan to go flying on Thursday. I'll take pictures of the
static ports and post them.
--
Frank Derfler


Frank

Thank you for the input on the Dynon AOA. I would love to hear if others
have had a problem with the Dynon AOA as you describe. I may decide to
scrap the AOA pitot and just go with the more conventional LRI gage.

Regarding your perceived need for a backup AI, is that because you are not
satisfied with the Dynon AI, or just your desire to have a backup?

I am looking at the TruTrak ADI autopilot, which had a combination AI-turn
coordinator display. For a bit more than a simple autopilot, it would
provide a backup AI. Is anyone out there using the ADI Pilot I or II? How
has it performed?


At 01:34 PM 9/5/2007 -0500, Ken wrote:

<kensmith(at)springnet1.com>

Quote:
Dynon had a software update several years ago to eliminate the problem of
erratic angle-of-attack readings.
The location of the pitot also plays a major role in the proper indications.


Ken

Have you installed the Dynon in your aircraft and/or are you aware of
other's who have applied Dynon's fix? How has the AOA performed after the
fix? If the location of the pitot is critical, is there guidance available
about where to install it on a 601XL? Unfortunately, the location is not
something that can easily be changed after the initial installation, and a
series of trial and error installations would make a mess of a wing. There
is a school of thought that suggests that AOA or LRI is not necessary for
"real" pilots. And then there are those of us who would like to have more
info if it would make us safer. I would really like to have that info, but
I would not want to go with the Dynon AOA if it does not provide useful
information.
Terry


Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ron Lendon



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Static ports Reply with quote

I purchased the Dynon AOA and called them and zenith to get further clarification of the location of the Pitot. Dynon said to keep it out of the boundary layer of air around the wing surface. I think their document said something like 6" away from wing surface. Caleb and I figured the boundry layer wouldn't get much beyond 4" at VNE on the XL. The design distance of the CH pitot has the stand off at 2.5 for the static tube and 3.5 for the pitot.

I just measured the Dynon AOA on the wing I am building and I have it set 5.75" from the wing surface to the center of the pitot hole. That should keep it out in the undisturbed airflow. The rest of the position is just like the print 150mm back from the wing spar rivet line, and just outboard of RR#5.

Planning to mount the two static ports just like Mark Townsend said. It works for him it will probably work for me also Laughing


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
goodings(at)yorku.ca
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Static Ports Reply with quote

We installed a used (I think Beechcraft) combination pitot and static port
on the underside of the port wing about half way to the tip. It has
always read perfectly, as checked out from sensitive altimeter readings
and Becker mode C. I like the fact that it is well outside the propeller
arc. It was not difficult to install it into the wing after it was
rivetted shut. We keep it covered when not in use with a cover which
includes a red streamer "Remove Before Flight". Our hangar mate had a
difficult time with 3 static ports on the fuselage sides of his
(identical) 601HD before he got something that worked.

John M. Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa/Toronto/Waterloo.


- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group