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Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

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grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

I have some questions that I need answered ASAP. I have plans to buy a Kolb Firestar II  this Saturday. When I talked to the guy I was under the impression that this plane would carry two normal sized adults. Now I am concerned that this plane might not work. This is a 2000 year kit finished in 2004 with a rotax 503 electric start, Ivo 3 blade prop, hotbox, BRS,  strobes and Battery.



Kolb’s website says max gross weight is 725#  I talked to Travis at Kolb and he said its now 760# . The designer of the plane in Canada did not know the weight was raised.



I want to convert the plane to 2 seat by installing the sling seat however I believe it’s going to be over gross weight with 2 normal sized people. Kolb did not recommend going over gross weight.



Max weight of 2 pilots would not exceed 340#



The guy told me the plane with him in it full of fuel(10gallons) weights 630 to 640#. I can’t remember exactly but it was over 600. He said he weight 150# and 10 gallons of fuel should be about 60#.

When I asked him he said the weight might have been off on the scales?

Will you guys give me the empty weight of your Kolb FirestarII’s along with what options you have on the plane?

What do you guys thing should I go with two seats on this one or get a Mark III?



Travis at Kolb told me their FirestarII Weighs 325# empty but it does not have a BRS, electric start, a Battery or much of anything.

Thanks,

Grant

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Grant,



I think most Firestar IIs are heavier than the 360# empty weight that your situation would require. (760-60-340=360) The empty weight on the Firestar II you are thinking of buying must be shown on the weight and balance paperwork if the airplane is registered and has an airworthiness certificate. Unless you weigh it yourself, you won't be certain that its current weight is what is on the paperwork, since mods or additional equipment may have been added since it was registered. 



For what it is worth, my Firestar I weighs 362 lb. empty with BRS, ten gallon tank, and hydraulic brakes, according to the W&B paperwork done by the builder. Its alleged weight is heaver than most early single seat Firestars for reasons unknown to me. I won't know its actual weight until after I finish the repairs needed from the recent accident, and weigh it myself.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

grantr wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have some questions that I need answered ASAP. I have plans to buy a Kolb Firestar II  this Saturday. When I talked to the guy I was under the impression that this plane would carry two normal sized adults. Now I am concerned that this plane might not work. This is a 2000 year kit finished in 2004 with a rotax 503 electric start, Ivo 3 blade prop, hotbox, BRS,  strobes and Battery.



 Kolb’s website says max gross weight is 725#  I talked to Travis at Kolb and he said its now 760# . The designer of the plane in Canada did not know the weight was raised.



 I want to convert the plane to 2 seat by installing the sling seat however I believe it’s going to be over gross weight with 2 normal sized people. Kolb did not recommend going over gross weight.



 Max weight of 2 pilots would not exceed 340#



 The guy told me the plane with him in it full of fuel(10gallons) weights 630 to 640#. I can’t remember exactly but it was over 600. He said he weight 150# and 10 gallons of fuel should be about 60#.

 When I asked him he said the weight might have been off on the scales?

 Will you guys give me the empty weight of your Kolb FirestarII’s along with what options you have on the plane?

 What do you guys thing should I go with two seats on this one or get a Mark III?



 Travis at Kolb told me their FirestarII Weighs 325# empty but it does not have a BRS, electric start, a Battery or much of anything.

 Thanks,

 Grant





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134141#134141



   

In a FS II, the back seat passenger is going to be very cramped. I've 
	


flown in the back seat of 2, with 2 different sized pilots........the 

flying part was fun, the seating was misery. I'd do it again, but if 

there's any options I'd look them over. Lar.

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Mine, according to the data plate, is 440 lbs empty. According to the weight and balance, I could carry around 60 to 70lbs in the back seat before hitting gross wt (750lbs).



Mine has no options other than the C box and RK-400 clutch, which add about 10lbs over what just a B box would be. The builder had to add some ballast to the front to get the W&B to come out right (I beleve it was 10lbs, but how much isn't specified in the logbooks).



I think the most the plane could lose if I went to a B box and removed the ballast is about 20 to 25lbs... 



So it's still a pretty heavy plane if the typical empty weight is 325 or thereabouts. Doesn't fly like it's heavy though.....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Wow this is not sounding good for flying 2.



This one has  mechanical brakes also.



Lucien,



Your plane is 440# with no BRS or other options? Wow So this one must be heavier.



Any idea what a BRS weights. I think its around 28#



Keep those weights and options coming!

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

 	  grantr wrote: 	
		  Wow this is not sounding good for flying 2.



This one has  mechanical brakes also.



Lucien,



Your plane is 440# with no BRS or other options? Wow So this one must be heavier.



Any idea what a BRS weights. I think its around 28#



Keep those weights and options coming! 	




That's with the VLS BRS that the plane was originally certificated with. I currently have the BRS off the plane - it's out of date and frankly I'm more worried about dying due to accidental firing of the chute than any failure of that Kolb airframe - but according to the label on the chute the all up weight of it is 17 lbs.



IMO, the FS II is pretty much a single-place plane. A couple friends of mine in TX had one and flew it dual on a regular basis, but I don't know what their plane weighed.



The original builder told me he couldn't see how you could build the plane any lighter than that. Mine really is bare bones and he did the Stitts process on the fabric absolutely to the letter (came out beautiful too, still looks like a brand new paint job 10 years later), but the plane was still more than 400lbs before he added the ballast.



But even with full 10gals of gas, my 195lbs and 9000' density altitude, it gets off the ground and climbs out about 300 fpm or so. So it doesn't _fly_ overweight by any means (solo anyway).....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

The BaronVonEvil

Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Walla Walla, WA.

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Hi Grant,



I have a Firestar II and it weighs in at 333lbs. It has a 447, two 5 gallon tanks, mechanical brakes and a manual (recoil) starter. 



My Firestar II is a basic version so that may be why the weight is what it is. I just did the weight and balance for the ELSA application so the numbers are accurate.



The Second Seat is really small and would not be very comfortable for any length of time. 



I would recommend you consider a Mk III or a Kolbra for a more realistic two place Kolb.



Carlos Grageda

AKA BaronVonEvil

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Grant,

I built a Mk-3 classic with hydraulic brakes, 17" tall tires, full 

enclosure, 690L-70 engine, (similar in weight to a 582Rotax), silver coat 

under the polytone paint and its empty weight is 475lbs.

I listed the gross weight as 1000lbs but could have listed it as high as 

1200lbs as some builders do.

I weigh 185 pounds and have flown passengers up to 250 pounds with no 

trouble at all.

I have also set in the back seat of a Firestar 2 and it is super tight for 

my 6' frame.

The Firestar is a GREAT aircraft but the jump seat is more suitable for 

small folks and extra baggage than for full size adults.

If you want a true two seat Kolb you want one of the Mk-3 models or a 

Kolbra.



Denny Rowe.

Western PA, Mk-3 N616DR

---

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Grant



If you think the FirestarII is really a two place airplane your only kidding 

your self. It is a wonderful airplane for one person and a child. It CAN be 

used in a pinch for two adults if they are light enough, if the empty weight 

is low enough, and the air is smooth but not on a regular basis. I you need 

a two passenger airplane then get one.



Most airplanes are marginal with every seat full, GA airplanes are even 

worse. I own a MKIIIC which is a two place airplane. Since I'm 205 Lbs I 

have to be careful with my passenger weight. Also just like their owners 

airplanes tend to gain weight as the get older.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

---

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

 	  rowedenny(at)windstream.n wrote: 	
		  



<<<snip>>>

The Firestar is a GREAT aircraft but the jump seat is more suitable for 

small folks and extra baggage than for full size adults.

If you want a true two seat Kolb you want one of the Mk-3 models or a 

Kolbra.



Denny Rowe.

Western PA, Mk-3 N616DR

--- 	




Grant:

I would echo what Denny (and others) said (particularly that the "....Firestar is a GREAT aircraft...")

Mine is 406 empty.  503 DCDI, C box, Powerfin 3 prop, BRS, EIS, ASI, compass, mech brakes, NO starter, small battery for accessories.



The W&B dictated that with 10 gallons of fuel and a 170 # pilot, the max for the rear seat was 112 #.  (If I could get down to 170,  I might be able to attract a 112 # passenger.   See image attached for the best I could do.    )

If you are really interested in carrying a passenger, go for the legit 2 place Kolb.  MK III's or Kolbra.

My 2 cents worth.....

Begging for a ride..jpg

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_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

In a message dated 9/12/2007 11:06:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  What do you guys thing should I go with two seats on this one or get a Mark III? 	


  

  

 My FS II, which is kinda heavy at 470 wet, flew great  with me in it at 270 lbs.  Very good climb.

  

 But have you tried getting two grownups in a FS II?  Will be very uncomfortable for the rear seater.

  

 Get a MkIII.  I would get the Xtra.



  

 Howard Shackleford

FS II

SC



Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Ditto........exactly right. Mark III Classic owner

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Urgent Kolb Firestar II Empty weights w/ options?

Thanks guys.



Now does anyone have a Mark III for sale?

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