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Center Gap-seal coming loose

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HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

Our Kolb Mark III, 256KT,  is in high speed taxi tests, with some  airborne stretches in the taxi.

  

 The Center Gap-seal shed its hold down springs in back and also popped out  of the center hold.

  

 Shortening the rear springs to increase tension didn't help, for it  happened again a second time.

  

 That gap-seal must really flap about violently to shed its hold down  springs. With the danger of it shedding a piece of itself, going through  the prop, and getting flung into the control surfaces or denting the main boom,  this needs a resolution prior to further "taxiing".. 

  

 Has anybody experienced this, if yes, how was it fixed.

  

 In appreciation of a solution, which certainly must exist, 

  

 Many thanks, Herb



See [quote][b]

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

Herb

  

 I never heard of this happening. Do you have a classic or extra. My classic  center gap seal wraps around the leading edge and under the wings 5-6 inches.  Then there is a hook in the center of the seal that hooks into hole in the top  of the cage. I have bolts that stick out of the universal joints at the back of  the wing that the seal is secured to with wing nuts and safety clips. Make sure  when you install the seal that the hook in the center of the seal goes into the  tube in the cage. The rear attachment appears to nothing more than to keep the  seal from moving forward. Make sure that you have also covered the area under  the seal with fabric. If this doesn't help maybe a photo of your seal and center  section will help us help you.

  

 I once heard Dennis Souder say he designed the seal and it may be a  bit overkill. That has always been my assessment so I'm surprised at your  problem.

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC 

 [quote]   ---

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

The gap seal on the plans seemed somewhat light.  I built a stronger

assembly with a lower cross piece that extends one inch past the bottom

of the wing so that it cannot blow up.  I use positive hold metal at the

rear with springs to hold them in place and nylon cords to keep them out

of the prop if they should break.  The rear can be held down with bolts

and wing nuts or nut plates at a very little extra time in disassembly.

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

Herb, Ditto to Rick's remarks, except my IIIC doesn't have the bolts Rick describes, just a couple of springs to hole the gap seal pulled tight around the leading edge. Is the Lexan completely framed by aluminum at the rear? 



Rick



On 10/10/07, Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net (NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net)> wrote:[quote]        Herb

  

 I never heard of this happening. Do you have a classic or extra. My classic  center gap seal wraps around the leading edge and under the wings 5-6 inches.  Then there is a hook in the center of the seal that hooks into hole in the top  of the cage. I have bolts that stick out of the universal joints at the back of  the wing that the seal is secured to with wing nuts and safety clips. Make sure  when you install the seal that the hook in the center of the seal goes into the  tube in the cage. The rear attachment appears to nothing more than to keep the  seal from moving forward. Make sure that you have also covered the area under  the seal with fabric. If this doesn't help maybe a photo of your seal and center  section will help us help you.

  

 I once heard Dennis Souder say he designed the seal and it may be a  bit overkill. That has always been my assessment so I'm surprised at your  problem.

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC 

 [quote]   ---

HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

Many thanks to you all, Rick & Rick & APilot,

  

 This happens on a classic MarkIII,  and yes the area under  the seal is covered with fabric. The gap seal has that hook in the center,  (which it pops out of), and the rear has fairly strong springs holding the gap  seal back and in place, but which unhook themselves from the gap seal, which was  built standard to plans.

  

 Well, the main difference seems to be our rear gap seal attach is only  "springy" while yours is rigid with wing nuts and safety pins, in addition to  the springs. 

  

 There is one other possible cause. Which is, there is an open gap  between the top of the windshield and the gap seal, about 2-3 inches high.  Could it be air flowing in there which is pressurizing the underside of the gap  seal popping it up and loose. 

  

 Do you have such a gap on your machine, or is it well sealed?

  

 Sorry, I don't have suitable pictures (yet) showing the gap seal detail  and, the airport is 1.5 hours away.

 But here is a picture of the entire A/C :  

  

 http://members.aol.com/hgraff/KolbN246KT.jpg

  

 Thanks for your help, Herb

  

  

 In a message dated 10/10/2007 2:13:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net writes:

 [quote]   Herb

    

   I never heard of this happening. Do you have a classic or extra. My    classic center gap seal wraps around the leading edge and under the wings 5-6    inches. Then there is a hook in the center of the seal that hooks into hole in    the top of the cage. I have bolts that stick out of the universal joints at    the back of the wing that the seal is secured to with wing nuts and safety    clips. Make sure when you install the seal that the hook in the center of the    seal goes into the tube in the cage. The rear attachment appears to nothing    more than to keep the seal from moving forward. Make sure that you have also    covered the area under the seal with fabric. If this doesn't help maybe a    photo of your seal and center section will help us help you.

    

   I once heard Dennis Souder say he designed the seal and it may be a    bit overkill. That has always been my assessment so I'm surprised at your    problem.

    

   Rick Neilsen

   Redrive VW powered MKIIIC 

   [quote]     ---

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

<< ... there is an open gap between the top of the windshield and the

gap seal, about 2-3 inches high. ... Do you have such a gap on your

machine, or is it well sealed? >>



Herb -



On my Mark-III Classic, the top edge of my windshield is within a half

inch of the gap seal, so there is still a half-inch gap in between.

Rain enters the cockpit here when flying in showers.  I asked Travis at

New Kolb if they can provide some sort of seal (formed alum strip?) to

cover this gap.  Travis told me they make one for the Extra, but not for

the Classic.



I'd have to make my own, either out of fiberglass or aluminum.  Haven't

done this yet.



To address the attachment security issue for the gap seal, I fabricated

a pair of hold-down braces that have #8 screws poking upward that go

through the gap seal, through the 1/2" alum angle braces.  Located about

the midpoint on the gap seal, one on each side of the engine.  They are

secured with wingnuts (and safety pins) on top.  Only adds a minute to

my setup time.  Have never had gap seal vibration problems this way.



Dennis Kirby

912ul, "Magic Bike" in

Cedar Crest, NM

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

Bryan Melborn has tooled  a Gap Seal for the xtra, however I do not  believe he has done anything for the Classic. If I owned a Classic I would take  the time to build a Fiber Glass one. It is time consuming but well worth the  effort. I wonder how much difference there would be from plane to plane.

  

  

 Steve

Firefly 007/Floats

do not  archive



See what's  [quote][b]

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

Real simple seal, quick to make, and cheap, too. Get a piece of foam pipe insulation, trim with a box knife to fit. A little duct or vinyl tape and there you have it. Take it out in the summer time for full flow through ventilation. Works great. 



Rick



On 10/11/07, N27SB(at)aol.com (N27SB(at)aol.com) <N27SB(at)aol.com (N27SB(at)aol.com)> wrote:[quote]      Bryan Melborn has tooled  a Gap Seal for the xtra, however I do not  believe he has done anything for the Classic. If I owned a Classic I would take  the time to build a Fiber Glass one. It is time consuming but well worth the  effort. I wonder how much difference there would be from plane to plane.

  

  

 Steve

Firefly 007/Floats

do not  archive



  See what's  [quote][b]  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com  [quote][b]

HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

In a message dated 10/11/2007 12:07:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  To    address the attachment security issue for the gap seal, I fabricated

a pair    of hold-down braces that have #8 screws poking upward that go

through the    gap seal, through the 1/2" alum angle braces.  Located about

the    midpoint on the gap seal, one on each side of the engine.  They    are

secured with wingnuts (and safety pins) on  top. 	


 

 Dennis,

  

 Understand and will implement as well. Not having the details at hand to  look at, I wonder how you connected the braces to the air frame itself. Should  you have a picture of it, could you please send it to my  Email:  HGRAFF(at)AOL.COM (HGRAFF(at)AOL.COM).

  

 I think the extra hold-downs, plus closing up the "Gap" should solve  the problem,. Also, I am thinking of lengthening the center "pin", maybe putting  something like a barb on it, to keep it from pulling out. 

  

 Many thanks to you and the gang,  Herb



.

  [quote][b]

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: Center Gap-seal coming loose

Herb

  

 I use a piece of garage door gasket to seal the gap between the center seal  and the wind shield. Its L shaped foam rubber, it works well. The  gasket is pop riveted to the center seal and velcroed to the windshield.

  

 The more I think about you seal working loose it seems like there is  something else going on. I know of people that fly or have flown without the  windshield and there are those that fly with the gap open below the seal  that your talking about. The standard plans for the MKIII suggest springs  and I don't remember anyone having this problem before. I would suggest you  review your plans again for differences. Make sure you have the sheet aluminum  rib that locks the top and bottom of the seal together and that it  is installed properly. 

  

 I used long universal bolts with wing nuts to secure the center seal  because it seemed a better way. If there was any lifting on the lexon where the  seal is secured with wing nuts the lexon would have failed by now. Just feels  like something isn't right???????   

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

  

  

 [quote]   ---

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