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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:07 am Post subject: fuel system

I remember seeing a long discussion about fuel lines and using automotive

fuel injection hose.



Also I remember reading about gasocolators - what type has been used

successfully and where is it or they mounted?



Will



--

DanBish

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 29
Location: TUCSON, AZ

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: fuel system

Will,



Have a look at:



http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album164&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



Or if the link doesn't work, go to the 2nd page of the gallery and look for my photo album. The fuel system is in an album of it's own.



I used R9 fuel injection hose where I need the rubber stuff, and aluminum tube (3/8" versatube) everywhere else. I have an Andair fuel selector and gascolator as well. I just got in my Floscan fuel flow sensor that will be installed this weekend and will go just before the rear fuel filters. 



Right now I have dual fuel filters both in the seat pans and just prior to the gascolator. This may seem like over-kill but after I have 25 or so hours on the plane, I may remove the rear filters and just rely on the ones up front. I put everything on bread boards so they're easy to remove. 



Let me know if you have any questions.



Dan

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

DanBish

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 29
Location: TUCSON, AZ

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: fuel system

Will,



Have a look at:



http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album164&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



Or if the link doesn't work, go to the 2nd page of the gallery and look for my photo album. The fuel system is in an album of it's own.



I used R9 fuel injection hose where I need the rubber stuff, and aluminum tube (3/8" versatube) everywhere else. I have an Andair fuel selector and gascolator as well. I just got in my Floscan fuel flow sensor that will be installed this weekend and will go just before the rear fuel filters. 



Right now I have dual fuel filters both in the seat pans and just prior to the gascolator. This may seem like over-kill but after I have 25 or so hours on the plane, I may remove the rear filters and just rely on the ones up front. I put everything on bread boards so they're easy to remove. 



Let me know if you have any questions.



Dan

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: fuel system

Thanks

Will



--

n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: fuel system

Dan,

Thanks for the link, I've been struggling with the fuel system for 

months, think you just knocked me back into motion. Very clever.



Ralph

RK Hallett III

Reno, NV

motorglider parts  getting closer together...



danbish wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Will,



 Have a look at:



 http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album164&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



 Or if the link doesn't work, go to the 2nd page of the gallery and look for my photo album. The fuel system is in an album of it's own.



 I used R9 fuel injection hose where I need the rubber stuff, and aluminum tube (3/8" versatube) everywhere else. I have an Andair fuel selector and gascolator as well. I just got in my Floscan fuel flow sensor that will be installed this weekend and will go just before the rear fuel filters. 



 Right now I have dual fuel filters both in the seat pans and just prior to the gascolator. This may seem like over-kill but after I have 25 or so hours on the plane, I may remove the rear filters and just rely on the ones up front. I put everything on bread boards so they're easy to remove. 



 Let me know if you have any questions.



 Dan

 Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: fuel system

Hi Dan



 	  Quote: 	
		  > http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album164&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php <<


	


Few comments on your plane: 



Did you install a down detent spring for latch?



Did you verify that LG08s are in fact overcenter at least 1/32"? (don't

want much more than 1/16")



Did you peen over the 4 screws for Andair 375 gasculator? There are 4

dimples under the flat heads of the screws meant for center punching to

hold them in place?



Did you take a look at the beautiful stainless drains offered by Andair

for their gasculators? (Especial for the gasculator)



Looking at your fuel system, you may as well get rid of Andair 375 as

things are now, it is nothing more than a single point to catch all debris

that can pass right through Europa filters! And I love 375s! First off

Rotax in fact has fuel schematic that depicts only 1 gasculator. Clog that

single point and second pump will do you no good. Current Europa suggested

schematic I like much more better, it allows second pump to pull from

second filter if needed! I know some folk only use 1 gasculator, but

especial on Europa, can do better. Supplied filter will not pass much

water. It will however pass debris that will for certain clog the 375. So

why have a gasculator downstream of filters that will not help you out

with water catching, but just sit there waiting to be clogged by debris

and allow motor play "Silent Night" since you don't have second path for

fuel to get to your series with bypass system? I went with Europas

schematic except used 2 375s instead of filters. In your case, if it were

I, would can the filters before the selector, and either plumb 2 supplied

filters as per Europa schematic and get rid of the gasculator, or get rid

of 4 filters and install another gasculator and have 2 gasculators supply

as per Europa schematic. Another option if you could pull it off, is have

Gasculator supply pump #1, and have dual paralleled filters supply second

location of Europa schematic. Yup I like last choice if installing a

second 375 is problematic. 



Did you clean the filters in your fuel pump after a few hours of running?

If you didn't probably worth while. See:

http://contrails.free.fr/engine_914_fuel_syst_test_en.php

for some good 914 info

I would not consider using Mini, in a perfect clean world will probably

work, but very little surface area, stick at least with 375s or supplied

filters instead of Mini.



I don't have full knowledge of the Teflon lined hose you speak of, but I

would be very careful using automotive Teflon lined hose in an aeroplane.

If you use Aeroquip racing braided Teflon lined hose, be ready for a

soaker hose spouting fuel. Works on ground, not in air. See:

http://www.sacskyranch.com/statichose.htm



Picture 113 in your fuel system has too tight of a bend radius, it is

collapsing hose. No good.



Just my opinion, only intention is in bettering aircraft, and learn if I

am off track. Please don't take as an attack.



Please you or anyone else beat up anything you don't like bout N4211W:

http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=Begin-06-2003&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



For info on this post see folders:

914 modular fuel system

Spring loaded down detent



Ron Parigoris

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: fuel system

Hi Dan



Forgot one tip:



Don't use aluminium fittings in 201B Flowscan or any aluminium body

transducer!



See:

http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=Begin-06-2003&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Look under Aeroquip 666 to see how I stripped threads from galling.



Don't blow through transducer with your mouth, Certified install manuals

warn you of this. Not sure exact why, moisture??

Ron P.

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:35 am Post subject: fuel system

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

Ron
	


a lot of good sense in what you say.

The Andair gascolators have 120 mu mesh, because Rotax specify minimum 

of 100mu filters. They couldn't buy 100mu at the time I discussed it 

with them. Those nice Mr Funnel filters are around 70mu (if I remember 

right) and they WILL allow dust through that will block an Andair Mini. 

I know of one blockage with a 914, caused by rust from a Jerry can. The 

Mini is probably OK for 912S but not 914 with the high recirculating 

flow rate.

Graham



 	  Quote: 	
		   Did you clean the filters in your fuel pump after a few hours of running?

 If you didn't probably worth while. See:

 http://contrails.free.fr/engine_914_fuel_syst_test_en.php

 for some good 914 info

 I would not consider using Mini, in a perfect clean world will probably

 work, but very little surface area, stick at least with 375s or supplied

 filters instead of Mini.

 For info on this post see folders:

 914 modular fuel system

 Spring loaded down detent

 

 Ron Parigoris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:23 am Post subject: fuel system

Hi! Graham

Just a little alarmed with your statement questioning the suitability of

the Mini-Andair gascolator. I used a single unit throughout my Jabiru

3300  heavy fuel use experiences with no problems other than those, not

Andair related,  manifested by the damn tank comnector  finger filters

and drillings.

I now have two Mini Andairs on each fuel line so theory has it that one

should remain gunk free for the emergency situation albeit with a 914?

Clean system flows were well in spec. before flight testing.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG



--

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: fuel system

Hi Bob



If you take a look at 914 fuel pump testing site Gilles has put up:

http://contrails.free.fr/engine_914_fuel_syst_test_en.php

also Gilles take on pumps with link to Mfg.:

http://contrails.free.fr/engine_pierburg_en.php

, you can see the small surface area of Mini. The Mini is rated for I

think 160HP. Lets say that 100HP burns approx 10GPH, so that is 16GPH.

That is not an absolute using HP rating if you are returning a lot of

fuel! If you have parallel pumps, you can blow through 40GPH from what

some say! If you look at info, you can see that when I tested and restrict

intake it does work, but you can also probably fly toting a 5 gallon

garbage pail from the tail of your plane (more easily attached I might add

if you didn't have an "UnConventional gear!). It strains the pump big

time. In addition it can create cavitation that boiling bubbles of fuel

will do no good to life of pump or the strain to life of motor. Pump Mfg.

states head max., adding intake restriction pretty much equates to higher

head. You can also run without a filter at all, as long as you put in

clean fuel, but not recommended. To stack things in your favor, at minimum

match flow recomended by Mfg. to what your worst case needs are. 375 adds

a tremendous amount more filter surface area compared to Mini and does not

add that 5 gallon bucket (I forget exact but think 375 rated for 250 or

275 HP). Recommended Europa fuel schematic, series with bypass, 2 filters

(or gasculators) plumbed as per their schematic better on 914 than having

1 filter (or gasculator) at each tank output. Unless you had a

differential pressure gauge for 914 (which every 914 driver should have,

and know how to use it) and saw bouncing needle (crack pressure bear being

met) and switched selector at that moment on take off, you are in position

to run out of fuel. Europa schematic will keep you going. Once you fully

understand approx. 2 to 5 PSI over airbox pressure, you see you don't want

any restriction in plumbing from fuel pressure regulator to tank, and

downside of paralleled fuel pumps compared to series (blow over 5 PSI, not

as bad as under 2PSI but you are stacking things not in your favor, best

follow Mfg).



I would not recommend a Mini even for 912/S even though you can probably

get away with. Restriction is so close, some builders putting supplied

filters in series with Mini makes for marginal flow and easy chance of

failure.



Ron Parigoris



  On Sat, Nov 3, 2007, "Robt.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> said:



[quote] 

 

 Hi! Graham

 Just a little alarmed with your statement questioning the suitability of

 the Mini-Andair gascolator. I used a single unit throughout my Jabiru

 3300  heavy fuel use experiences with no problems other than those, not

 Andair related,  manifested by the damn tank comnector  finger filters

 and drillings.

 I now have two Mini Andairs on each fuel line so theory has it that one

 should remain gunk free for the emergency situation albeit with a 914?

 Clean system flows were well in spec. before flight testing.

 Regards

 Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

 --

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: fuel system

Hi Bob



One more point:



"Clean system flows were well in spec. before flight testing."



Are you really sure you checked fuel system and it was within specs? Did

you simulate ambient atmospheric pressure to high altitude? You can follow

Rotax check of cheating fuel pressure regulator to think it is at high

altitude which is probably OK, but again as I have said many times,

gallons per hour flow on a 914 is moot. You need to measure that fuel

pressure is over airbox pressure by 2 to 5 PSI. For actual test you need

to simulate airbox pressure, so do that to 115HP level, and drop ambient

to that of 18K, Did you do this?



Did you at least follow Rotax check of increasing airbox pressure to 115%

level and see that differential pressure is 2 to 5? (knowing full well

that at higher altitude it may very well not perform)



Or did you measure fuel flow into a bucket that is about as useless in

determining fuel system performance as is toting that bucket on the tail

of plane?



Believe me I am not trying to be nasty, I am trying to be "Assertive" in

trying to help you and others to get in tune what 914 needs are. 



If one does not have differential gauge (which you can just cheat input

for airbox pressure and same to fuel pressure regulator) which after cheat

you can just see that needle is between 2 and 5, or you can cheat

regulator and note reading, note ambient pressure and measure fuel

pressure to carbs, Rotax manual tells how to do calculation.



Many believe in making things as simple as possible. That may not be a

great philosophy. Albert Einstein had a much better one "Make things as

simple as possible, not simpler". As far as 914, don't forget the last

part. 



If beyond scope of Builder/Pilot, search out someone who can help out. It

is OK to not understand something complete and still be an effective user,

instance most users of modern automobiles. That said to set up and

engineer such a machine, for best results best be intimate familiar.



Ron Parigoris

[quote] Regards

 Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

 --

DanBish

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 29
Location: TUCSON, AZ

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: fuel system

[b:fa823cf774]Ron,



Thanks for the input. Regarding your questions, please see below:[/b:fa823cf774]



Did you install a down detent spring for latch?

[b:fa823cf774]No, but plan to install a pin that will go into the console that will do same with no spring to wear out.[/b:fa823cf774]



Did you verify that LG08s are in fact overcenter at least 1/32"? (don't 

want much more than 1/16") 

[b:fa823cf774]I have the gear off right now but will verify this on reinstall. [/b:fa823cf774]



Did you peen over the 4 screws for Andair 375 gasculator? There are 4 

dimples under the flat heads of the screws meant for center punching to 

hold them in place? 

[b:fa823cf774]Had no idea of this as it's not mentioned anywhere in the Andair literature. I'll have a look and see if I can figure out what it is you're suggesting.[/b:fa823cf774]



Did you take a look at the beautiful stainless drains offered by Andair 

for their gasculators? (Especial for the gasculator) 

[b:fa823cf774]Yes, but the ones I have are standard here in US and were already owned. [/b:fa823cf774]



Looking at your fuel system, you may as well get rid of Andair 375 as 

things are now, it is nothing more than a single point to catch all debris 

that can pass right through Europa filters! 

[b:fa823cf774]This didn't occur to me, but you're right. I'm going to place the 375 after the pumps as I've seen others do.[/b:fa823cf774]



Did you clean the filters in your fuel pump after a few hours of running? 

[b:fa823cf774]Haven't run it yet but will clean before first flight.[/b:fa823cf774]



I don't have full knowledge of the Teflon lined hose you speak of, but I 

would be very careful using automotive Teflon lined hose in an aeroplane. 

[b:fa823cf774]This was suggested on EAA's site. It's R9 Gates hose.[/b:fa823cf774]



Picture 113 in your fuel system has too tight of a bend radius, it is 

collapsing hose. No good. 

[b:fa823cf774]This is a photo of the installation of the clamp. If you look close, there's a wood block in the left of the photo that's causing the crimp. The hose acted as a spring to hold the block in place which, in turn, held the clamp until the redux dried. With the block out of there, the radius is ok.[/b:fa823cf774]



Just my opinion, only intention is in bettering aircraft, and learn if I 

am off track. Please don't take as an attack. 

[b:fa823cf774]I appreciate the feed-back, no problem[/b:fa823cf774]



[b:fa823cf774]Thanks again,



Dan[/b:fa823cf774]

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: fuel system

Hi Dan



Will reply below ****



No, but plan to install a pin that will go into the console that will do

same with no spring to wear out.



**** Safety lock is a good idea. Note on spring that in your and your

children lifetime, don't think it will fail! I used Stainless spring wire

from McMaster Carr. If anyone needs some, send me a SASE to:

Ron Parigoris

44 Carriage Drive

Kings Park, NY 11754 

with a note. 



May I suggest you install spring along with your pin, easy install and

very positive.



Had no idea of this as it's not mentioned anywhere in the Andair

literature. I'll have a look and see if I can figure out what it is you're

suggesting.

**** There is 1 dimple per screw, center punch flat head into dimple and

it is a mechanical locker.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Looking at your fuel system, you may as well get rid of Andair 375 as 

 things are now, it is nothing more than a single point to catch all debris 

 that can pass right through Europa filters! 

 [b:fa823cf774]This didn't occur to me, but you're right. I'm going to place the 375 after the pumps as I've seen others do.

***** NO NO NO NO NO !!!!! You missed point. putting 375 downstream of
	


supplied filters is foolish no matter where you put it or them! It will

not catch water because not much water will pass the supplied filters, but

it will only serve to restrict flow, and possibly be a single point clog

when debris clogs it that passes supplied filter/s! Read what I initial

wrote, plumb as per Europas current schematic down loadable from Europas

website 914FWF, use your 375 on pump 1 intake, and use paralleled supplied

filters for second inlet. Or use two 375s. I can appreciate your 2 tank

outlet filters for ease of first flights, but think they will compromise

where I doubt when engine quits at low altitude you can switch tanks fast

enough to save the day.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Did you clean the filters in your fuel pump after a few hours of running? 

 [b:fa823cf774]Haven't run it yet but will clean before first flight.

**** See Gilles site, follow my procedure letting primary pump run for at
	


least 2 hours, then the second pump for at least 2 hours. Best have one of

those pleated disposable filters (or similar) to not return that black to

your fuel. After all that running (and cleaning out the messy sealant and

grease you assembled the gasculators with, that is when you clean pump

intake filters.



I don't have full knowledge of the Teflon lined hose you speak of, but I 

 	  Quote: 	
		   would be very careful using automotive Teflon lined hose in an aeroplane. 

 [b:fa823cf774]This was suggested on EAA's site. It's R9 Gates hose.

If I were to use it, I would want the blessing of the hose Mfg. that it is
	


OK for use on an aircraft, if not, I probably would not use it. You have

hose clamps, when fuel flows through hose it develops static electricity,

not are you going to trust your life, and your family's life, and lives of

kids screaming on the playground that static is not going to discharge and

burn pinholes through Teflon lining and cause problems? If yes, after you

do your due diligence, then by all means use it. I have been told by IAs

and others to use Aeroquip Race Hose and have seen it being used. That

does not mean it is a good idea. Please let us know what you find.



Ron Parigoris

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: fuel system

Hi! Ron

Thanks for that.

Actually I had the Rotax main agent do all the fuel flow and pressure

tests.

So it had better be right! ..but then again he doesn't have to fly with

it!

Regards

Bob Harrison.G-PTAG



--

jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: fuel system

Hi all,



I have a question if I may.

Mod 33 shows the starboard drain tank outlet used also as the return 

line tank inlet.

The pictures I see with Graham Singleton's adapters for threaded 

connections all show the return line going to the vent outlet if I'm not 

mistaken.

Is this recommended, if so why?

- Less return line pressure for 914 systems?

- No mixing of tank bottom debris with return fuel?

I could think of counter arguments:

- Will fuel become aerated and more oxidising and possibly vapor lock 

prone when continuously made to drop from the vent outlet location (914 

system)?

- How about compatibility with long range tank mod?



Thanks,

Jan de Jong

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: fuel system

Jan

imho there is more risk of vapout lock when you mix hot fuel from the 

engine driven pump with the fuel going back to the engine. I don't think 

you will be able to aerate a full tank of fuel, the return goes into the 

reserve tank anyway, or should do.

Long range tank mod is a bit of a problem, I agree

Graham



Jan de Jong wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi all,

 

 I have a question if I may.

 Mod 33 shows the starboard drain tank outlet used also as the return 

 line tank inlet.

 The pictures I see with Graham Singleton's adapters for threaded 

 connections all show the return line going to the vent outlet if I'm not 

 mistaken.

 Is this recommended, if so why?

 - Less return line pressure for 914 systems?

 - No mixing of tank bottom debris with return fuel?

 I could think of counter arguments:

 - Will fuel become aerated and more oxidising and possibly vapor lock 

 prone when continuously made to drop from the vent outlet location (914 

 system)?

 - How about compatibility with long range tank mod?

 

 Thanks,

jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: fuel system

Graham,

Thank you.

I was thinking of 914 with no engine driven pump and the electric 

pump(s) pumping around a tank volume every hour or so through the regulator.

A certain amount of mixing of sides would occur when the fuel level is 

well above the hump.

Maybe different considerations for the different fuel systems?

Regards,

Jan de Jong

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>



 Jan

 imho there is more risk of vapout lock when you mix hot fuel from the 

 engine driven pump with the fuel going back to the engine. I don't 

 think you will be able to aerate a full tank of fuel, the return goes 

 into the reserve tank anyway, or should do.

 Long range tank mod is a bit of a problem, I agree

 Graham



 Jan de Jong wrote:

> 

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question if I may.

> Mod 33 shows the starboard drain tank outlet used also as the return 

> line tank inlet.

> The pictures I see with Graham Singleton's adapters for threaded 

> connections all show the return line going to the vent outlet if I'm 

> not mistaken.

> Is this recommended, if so why?

> - Less return line pressure for 914 systems?

> - No mixing of tank bottom debris with return fuel?

> I could think of counter arguments:

> - Will fuel become aerated and more oxidising and possibly vapor lock 

> prone when continuously made to drop from the vent outlet location 

> (914 system)?

> - How about compatibility with long range tank mod?

>

mx(at)jcliff.waitrose.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: fuel system

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,



 I have a question if I may.

 Mod 33 shows the starboard drain tank outlet used also as the return line 

 tank inlet.

 The pictures I see with Graham Singleton's adapters for threaded 

 connections all show the return line going to the vent outlet if I'm not 

 mistaken.

 Is this recommended, if so why?


	


Several years ago I submitted a Modification request to PFA Engineering to 

cover a revised fuel system with aluminium pipes and home-brewed tank 

fittings, much like Graham's.  The return feed went back via a drain outlet.



Francis made several comments.  One of them was that this return route was 

not the best as in the event of a serious engine bay fire in which the 

flexible hoses were destroyed it would be possible for fuel to be fed from 

the tank along this return line which could not be turned off.  In theory 

most of the tank contents could feed the fire.  Raising the return point to 

the vent inlet removed this possibility (unless you came to rest on the 

ground inverted, tail high).



John Cliff

#0259

jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: fuel system

Thank you John. Hadn't thought of that. Wonder if a check valve could be 

used? Andair quotes < 0.7 PSI (< 0.05 bar), Rotax requires < 0.25 bar 

for whole return line. Bad idea? Clogging would give carburettor 

overflow. Two in parallel?

Jan de Jong

 	  Quote: 	
		   



> Hi all,

>

> I have a question if I may.

> Mod 33 shows the starboard drain tank outlet used also as the return 

> line tank inlet.

> The pictures I see with Graham Singleton's adapters for threaded 

> connections all show the return line going to the vent outlet if I'm 

> not mistaken.

> Is this recommended, if so why?



 Several years ago I submitted a Modification request to PFA 

 Engineering to cover a revised fuel system with aluminium pipes and 

 home-brewed tank fittings, much like Graham's.  The return feed went 

 back via a drain outlet.



 Francis made several comments.  One of them was that this return route 

 was not the best as in the event of a serious engine bay fire in which 

 the flexible hoses were destroyed it would be possible for fuel to be 

 fed from the tank along this return line which could not be turned 

 off.  In theory most of the tank contents could feed the fire.  

 Raising the return point to the vent inlet removed this possibility 

 (unless you came to rest on the ground inverted, tail high).

europa(at)pstewart.f2s.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: fuel system

I also submitted a modification request to the PFA along similar  

lines to John but with the return into the vent inlet. It has been  

agreed by the PFA subject to fuel flow tests which I have not yet  

done (nor pressure).



Regards



Paul

G-GIDY

On 6 Nov 2007, at 09:53, John Cliff wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <mx(at)jcliff.waitrose.com>



> Hi all,

>

> I have a question if I may.

> Mod 33 shows the starboard drain tank outlet used also as the  

> return line tank inlet.

> The pictures I see with Graham Singleton's adapters for threaded  

> connections all show the return line going to the vent outlet if  

> I'm not mistaken.

> Is this recommended, if so why?



 Several years ago I submitted a Modification request to PFA  

 Engineering to cover a revised fuel system with aluminium pipes and  

 home-brewed tank fittings, much like Graham's.  The return feed  

 went back via a drain outlet.



 Francis made several comments.  One of them was that this return  

 route was not the best as in the event of a serious engine bay fire  

 in which the flexible hoses were destroyed it would be possible for  

 fuel to be fed from the tank along this return line which could not  

 be turned off.  In theory most of the tank contents could feed the  

 fire.  Raising the return point to the vent inlet removed this  

 possibility (unless you came to rest on the ground inverted, tail  

 high).



 John Cliff

 #0259

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