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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

On Feb 21, 2006, at 8:49 PM, Algate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Sometimes I think people either don't read these postings or are just

 downright rude.


	


I don't think anybody meant to be rude, Gary. I have also, in the past, 

experienced the same as you do now and you are right on one point: we 

don't use the time to read carefully and many jump on the occasion to 

say: Be careful! And that's a good thing even if, at time, it sounds 

patronising and unpleasant.



But I read your experience very carefully and I found it very 

interesting because I can relate to it. Fog can be tricky, and your 

story will help me to be careful if I even encounter the same weather 

conditions.



As for the use of the GPS as ultimate help when no gyro instrument is 

available, here is my story:

As I left Germany for The Netherlands, I had to wait for a front with 

rain, to pass. Being a novice, I listened to the German pilots advice 

and when they said: Now it clears up westward, I went.

But soon after the Dutch border, the ceiling started to go down and 

down and near Groningen, I was down to 500 ft, drizzle on my 

windshield, the only visual reference I had was a little cone under me, 

from the side window. I called ATC, explained my situation and they 

told me to keep on course because the weather was already clearing at 

my destination, about 30 minutes away.



However, I prepared myself for the moment I would be totally without 

visual reference. I then sat my  PDA with moving map in "Head Up" 

display (as a sailor, I always use "North Up") and looked at the red 

line of my flight plan, thinking: If panic comes, the main task is: 

keep the red line up at all price! If I was to meet the ground or an 

obstacle, it was better to do it on level wings than in a spin.



Luckily, the weather didn't get worse and soon I could climb again to 

1,000 and 1,500 ft. But this experience is what made me decide to buy 

the TruTrak turn coordinator. Not that I will EVER consider flying IFR. 

But when the weather surprises you, an extra instrument can make the 

difference between panic and control. I know, instruments can also 

create a false sense of control and make you take decisions that you 

wouldn't if you didn't had it.



In any  case, reading the experiences from my friends on this list is, 

I believe, the best way for me to practice aviation the safest way.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Hey Brad,



I have made bad judgements a time or two and responded to Gary privately 

thanking him for his frank comments and expressing  my reluctance to tell of 

my experiences, for exactly the reasons demonstrated by your post.



I monitor (lurk) on another list and am reluctant to participate because my 

"flame proof suit" seems to be always out of service.  For what it's worth, 

the best way to kill the list is to "shame on you" anytime anyone reports 

something you have problems with.



"You made a bad choice" in some of the words you used to post a word of 

warning to readers of the list.  I appreciate your warning, but "Shame on 

You".



---

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Didn't mean to be rude, but read your post again. To the uninitiated, it

sounds as though you knew the conditions were marginal, and because of your

having such a useful instrument, you chose to make the flight, maybe

assuming that IF things went wrong, your fantastic quasi-wanna-be IFR panel

would be put to good use.



I am not questioning your experience in any way. I am not even questioning

your decision to make the flight. But on a public forum, many people read

these messages. Including young adults who yet dream of doing what you and I

do everyday.



You know the consequences of your flight. But they may not. Wingnut himself

alluded to the fact that he should get the best for just such an occasion.



I'm glad it worked for you. But I don't want someone with far less

experience reading this forum and deciding to do something stupid, just

because you (or I, or anyone) did it and lived to tell about it.



As an instructor, one of the hardest things for me to teach a student is

good judgement. About the only way I know how is by example. 



Bradley



--Original Message-----

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel

Verheughe

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:56 PM

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: PDA Gps






On Feb 21, 2006, at 8:49 PM, Algate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Sometimes I think people either don't read these postings or are just

 downright rude.


	


I don't think anybody meant to be rude, Gary. I have also, in the past, 

experienced the same as you do now and you are right on one point: we 

don't use the time to read carefully and many jump on the occasion to 

say: Be careful! And that's a good thing even if, at time, it sounds 

patronising and unpleasant.



But I read your experience very carefully and I found it very 

interesting because I can relate to it. Fog can be tricky, and your 

story will help me to be careful if I even encounter the same weather 

conditions.



As for the use of the GPS as ultimate help when no gyro instrument is 

available, here is my story:

As I left Germany for The Netherlands, I had to wait for a front with 

rain, to pass. Being a novice, I listened to the German pilots advice 

and when they said: Now it clears up westward, I went.

But soon after the Dutch border, the ceiling started to go down and 

down and near Groningen, I was down to 500 ft, drizzle on my 

windshield, the only visual reference I had was a little cone under me, 

from the side window. I called ATC, explained my situation and they 

told me to keep on course because the weather was already clearing at 

my destination, about 30 minutes away.



However, I prepared myself for the moment I would be totally without 

visual reference. I then sat my  PDA with moving map in "Head Up" 

display (as a sailor, I always use "North Up") and looked at the red 

line of my flight plan, thinking: If panic comes, the main task is: 

keep the red line up at all price! If I was to meet the ground or an 

obstacle, it was better to do it on level wings than in a spin.



Luckily, the weather didn't get worse and soon I could climb again to 

1,000 and 1,500 ft. But this experience is what made me decide to buy 

the TruTrak turn coordinator. Not that I will EVER consider flying IFR. 

But when the weather surprises you, an extra instrument can make the 

difference between panic and control. I know, instruments can also 

create a false sense of control and make you take decisions that you 

wouldn't if you didn't had it.



In any  case, reading the experiences from my friends on this list is, 

I believe, the best way for me to practice aviation the safest way.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

mscotter

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

Can anyone give any advice as far as speed/performance requirements for a

PDA to run GPS/moving map software?

I just came across a Dell Axim X5, 400 MHZ, was thinking of purchasing, but

am not sure if this will be fast enough.  Can anyone share their experiences

with a standard PDA and what equipment has worked well for them?  I am

looking for specific numbers in terms of processor speed, software, memory,

etc.  Thanks.

_________________
Mark Scott
Winston-Salem, NC

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: PDA Gps

I'm using an X3 with the same processor as that X5 running Pocket FMS. It is just fast enough. With all the nifty options turned on, I can't zoom out to show more than 20 miles without panning getting too slow.  It's really only an issue when creating long cross country flight plans on the pda. You can't really zoom all the way out to see the whole plan.  Then again, you can create flight plans on the PC and upload them to the PDA. I expect that the PDA will spend most of the time zoomed in to 5 miles or so during normal use. At that zoom level, it pans fine. Some of the menus are a still a little clunky but that shouldn't affect your flying. All things considered, I wish I had sprung for one of those nifty Dell X50v models with the VGA display. Since the software was free, I would still be saving a boatload compared to a used Garmin 196.

One thing to keep in mind with the Axim line is that they don't have native rs232 support. That makes the interface cable for a GPS sensor a little on the expensive side ($50). I think that the HP PDAs have built in rs232 support which makes the cable cheaper.. Just something to consider when you compare prices.

Jim Shumaker

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 106

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

If you are looking at Anywhere Map then you want the latest Ipaq.  A minimum of 512 SD memory card.  High speed of course.  But don't bother with the very high capacity cards as the reliability of the super size cards is lower.  I only fly with the card zoomed in to 5 miles on approach to landing.  But it really zooms in for position on the taxiway.

   

  Jim Shumaker



mscotter <mscotter(at)comcast.net> wrote:

  



Can anyone give any advice as far as speed/performance requirements for a

PDA to run GPS/moving map software?

I just came across a Dell Axim X5, 400 MHZ, was thinking of purchasing, but

am not sure if this will be fast enough. Can anyone share their experiences

with a standard PDA and what equipment has worked well for them? I am

looking for specific numbers in terms of processor speed, software, memory,

etc. Thanks.

_________________
Jim Shumaker

jopatco(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:27 am Post subject: PDA Gps

Yeh Michel,I was gettng low on gas and was decending through a mountain 

pass appoaching Butte MT  and had a hole in the clouds to let me 

through. I miss judged the hole and went into IMC, the last place I 

wanted to be. I froze at the controls and kept a steady decent and after 

what seemed like eternity I popped out into sunshine. I now own a 196 

and occasionaly use the HSI to keep in practice. On long cross country 

flights, you may have to risk IMC at or near your destination.

Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

On Feb 21, 2006, at 8:49 PM, Algate wrote:

>Sometimes I think people either don't read these postings or are just

>downright rude.

>    

>

I don't think anybody meant to be rude, Gary. I have also, in the past, 

experienced the same as you do now and you are right on one point: we 

don't use the time to read carefully and many jump on the occasion to 

say: Be careful! And that's a good thing even if, at time, it sounds 

patronising and unpleasant.

But I read your experience very carefully and I found it very 

interesting because I can relate to it. Fog can be tricky, and your 

story will help me to be careful if I even encounter the same weather 

conditions.

As for the use of the GPS as ultimate help when no gyro instrument is 

available, here is my story:

As I left Germany for The Netherlands, I had to wait for a front with 

rain, to pass. Being a novice, I listened to the German pilots advice 

and when they said: Now it clears up westward, I went.

But soon after the Dutch border, the ceiling started to go down and 

down and near Groningen, I was down to 500 ft, drizzle on my 

windshield, the only visual reference I had was a little cone under me, 

from the side window. I called ATC, explained my situation and they 

told me to keep on course because the weather was already clearing at 

my destination, about 30 minutes away.

However, I prepared myself for the moment I would be totally without 

visual reference. I then sat my  PDA with moving map in "Head Up" 

display (as a sailor, I always use "North Up") and looked at the red 

line of my flight plan, thinking: If panic comes, the main task is: 

keep the red line up at all price! If I was to meet the ground or an 

obstacle, it was better to do it on level wings than in a spin.

Luckily, the weather didn't get worse and soon I could climb again to 

1,000 and 1,500 ft. But this experience is what made me decide to buy 

the TruTrak turn coordinator. Not that I will EVER consider flying IFR. 

But when the weather surprises you, an extra instrument can make the 

difference between panic and control. I know, instruments can also 

create a false sense of control and make you take decisions that you 

wouldn't if you didn't had it.

In any  case, reading the experiences from my friends on this list is, 

I believe, the best way for me to practice aviation the safest way.

Cheers,

Michel

do not archive

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: PDA Gps

On Feb 22, 2006, at 1:23 PM, John Larsen wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   On long cross country flights, you may have to risk IMC at or near 

 your destination.


	


Exactly, John. Only a fool would relay on a GPS to fly IMC. But, when 

the proverbial s**t hits the fan ... we use what we have. The danger 

is, of course, the false feeling of security it may generate. But it's 

a choice we have to make. I decided against a liferaft in my sailboat, 

against a ballistic chute in my Kitfox, but for a turn coordinator. Was 

that the right decision? I only hope that I won't have to find it out, 

one day.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: PDA Gps

No need for confusion, Michel. I just picked your post to reply to. I am

really talking to the lurkers out there, especially the young ones who dream

of flying with us at a later time.



Anyway, point taken, and I don't disagree. However, I stand by what I said.



Bradley



--

rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: PDA Gps

Gary,

Thanks for your post.  I learned something from your experience that I would

not have the advantage of if you had not shared it.  I think that this is

what this list is about.



Thanks again.

Randy



.           



--

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: PDA Gps

On Feb 23, 2006, at 5:59 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Michel's SV creates a new thread.


	


Good Grief! I never thought of that, Randy! At home, on my Macintosh, I 

have an English operative system and web browser. I adds a "Re:" I 

guess. But, at work, answering through my Norwegian ISP web interface, 

it writes SV: for "svare" (answer) in Norwegian. I'll try to delete 

those in the future.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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