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tc1917(at)hughes.net
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 Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: zoom zoom |
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My wing struts are airstreamed already. this just started with the 912 with
warp. I switched my 582 to a warp from IVO and got better performance,
climb, etc., but it had a harsh feel, kind of bumpy and vibrational. I
actually believe that this warp is the problem. sent one blade back already
because of defects. It really works hard but I dont like the vibration.
Not much you can do about it. The blade I sent back was almost a ounce
heavier than the other two blades. I think they can do better than that. I
guess I will just live with it until I can try another blade type. thanks.
all. Ted Cowan. will always wonder if it is nickel inlay that makes it hum
that way.
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biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: zoom zoom |
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What you said about that blade............are all 3 blades the same
weight now ?? I'd think they hafta be. What you might look at if they
are is the pitch. I've heard of problems like that showing up with
blades pitched differently than others.
I don't believe the protractor method of pitching the prop is completely
accurate, so you might try the laser pointer method. Look on my website
at www.gogittum.com under "Building Vamoose," and go to the "Laser Prop
Pitching" page.
Before the flaming starts, let me say that the protractor method is
probably completely accurate, but it's almost impossible to say the
bubble is in *exactly* the same place each time. I fully believe you
can easily be 1 or 2 degrees off with the
protractor. Lar.
tc1917 wrote:
| Quote: |
My wing struts are airstreamed already. this just started with the
912 with warp. I switched my 582 to a warp from IVO and got better
performance, climb, etc., but it had a harsh feel, kind of bumpy and
vibrational. I actually believe that this warp is the problem. sent
one blade back already because of defects. It really works hard but I
dont like the vibration. Not much you can do about it. The blade I
sent back was almost a ounce heavier than the other two blades. I
think they can do better than that. I guess I will just live with it
until I can try another blade type. thanks. all. Ted Cowan. will
always wonder if it is nickel inlay that makes it hum that way.
|
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Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose" |
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: zoom zoom |
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Ted
I sympathize with your vibration problem -- these things can be a
bear ton track down . You may have done this, but how about a dynamic
balancing of the whole prop? This would define, or eliminate, the
prop as the source.
A 1-oz difference in blade weight sounds like very sloppy
manufacture or at least product testing
On Nov 24, 2007, at 6:11 AM, tc1917 wrote:
| Quote: |
My wing struts are airstreamed already. this just started with the
912 with warp. I switched my 582 to a warp from IVO and got better
performance, climb, etc., but it had a harsh feel, kind of bumpy
and vibrational. I actually believe that this warp is the
problem. sent one blade back already because of defects. It
really works hard but I dont like the vibration. Not much you can
do about it. The blade I sent back was almost a ounce heavier than
the other two blades. I think they can do better than that. I
guess I will just live with it until I can try another blade type.
thanks. all. Ted Cowan. will always wonder if it is nickel inlay
that makes it hum that way.
|
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: zoom zoom |
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Hi Ted:
Very unusual for Warp Drive to make mistakes in blade balance, but I guess we are all human.
Differences in level of nickel edge and blade have never caused me a problem, nor has smoothness of the back side of the blade.
I have more than 2,500 hours flying Warp Drive props on my mkIII. Can not remember how many different ones I have had on the aircraft, but more like 5 or 6. Why so many? I have been sponsored by Warp since 1993, after a 3 blade GSC prop came apart and collected on my tail boom.
I have always flown tapered, nickel leading edges. Never had a problem.
Others that have had problems were related to top wing fabric, inboard, being loose, either not shrunk tight enough or in one case, individual ribstitched and the stitching worked loose. The noise and vibration was very uncomfortable and could be heard on the ground.
Fuselage fabric drumming could cause the same noise and vibration.
What length prop extention are you running?
I run a 4" with not problems.
I don't have any problem pitching the prop with the protractor provided by Warp. I don't know how Larry Bourne tested his prop after he pitched it with a laser. Did not know he had flown the airplane.
john h
mkIII
Edwards AFB, CA
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: zoom zoom |
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| Quote: | I don't have any problem pitching the prop with the protractor provided by
Warp. I don't know how Larry Bourne tested his prop after he pitched it
with a laser. Did not know he had flown the airplane.
john h
|
When Lar mentioned the laser and his prop, I got interested and decided to
check and see how good I was with a protractor. I too have had some problems
with pitch and my ability to set it properly. I have a level with a laser in
it, and unlike Lar I fastened the level to the end of the warp blade with
rubber bands. I measured the distance to the end of the prop so that I would
be able to get the level in the same place on both blades. I also had a mark
on the level so that I could set the height the same. I also cut a board
that would keep the blade that I was measuring level. I have put a lot of
effort in getting the blades set the same, but I ended up with a bit too
much pitch the last time I "adjusted it", so I needed to change it any way.
I picked the blade with the least amount of pitch and turned the laser on
and marked it on the floor with a piece of chalk. I then set up the other
blade and found that even with the extra care that I used the last time I
set it, the blade was almost 1 1/2 inches different than the first mark. Not
sure how much that ends up as degrees, but I reset it using the laser.
My next project was some stream lined faring for the gear legs. I have
looked and searched trying to find some fairings that I could put on them in
the hope that I could squeeze another MPH out of the little darling. I
finally gave up and decided that I would have to make them. I had some sheet
alum in the shop so I was on my way. First though I had to make a "brake" to
bend them. That in itself took most of my morning, but I managed a somewhat
usable brake to do the job.
Once I finished the two jobs I stuck my head out of the hanger and found
that the weather was still manageable, so I dressed up in my cold weather
gear and rolled the Plane out. With the heater 31 degrees is still good
flying. I did find that the prop was a lot smoother after the readjustment
and feel that it was most definitely worth doing. As for the gear leg
fairings I will always believe that they helped. As long as you believe then
it is worth while, whether the facts support that belief or not. 
Larry C
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biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: zoom zoom |
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Thanks Larry. I threw that idea out there in an attempt to help with
another builder's problem. Don't know if it'll help him, but I'm glad
to know it made a difference for you.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: |
<lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
> I don't have any problem pitching the prop with the protractor
> provided by Warp. I don't know how Larry Bourne tested his prop
> after he pitched it with a laser. Did not know he had flown the
> airplane.
>
> john h
When Lar mentioned the laser and his prop, I got interested and
decided to check and see how good I was with a protractor. I too have
had some problems with pitch and my ability to set it properly. I have
a level with a laser in it, and unlike Lar I fastened the level to the
end of the warp blade with rubber bands. I measured the distance to
the end of the prop so that I would be able to get the level in the
same place on both blades. I also had a mark on the level so that I
could set the height the same. I also cut a board that would keep the
blade that I was measuring level. I have put a lot of effort in
getting the blades set the same, but I ended up with a bit too much
pitch the last time I "adjusted it", so I needed to change it any way.
I picked the blade with the least amount of pitch and turned the laser
on and marked it on the floor with a piece of chalk. I then set up the
other blade and found that even with the extra care that I used the
last time I set it, the blade was almost 1 1/2 inches different than
the first mark. Not sure how much that ends up as degrees, but I reset
it using the laser.
My next project was some stream lined faring for the gear legs. I have
looked and searched trying to find some fairings that I could put on
them in the hope that I could squeeze another MPH out of the little
darling. I finally gave up and decided that I would have to make them.
I had some sheet alum in the shop so I was on my way. First though I
had to make a "brake" to bend them. That in itself took most of my
morning, but I managed a somewhat usable brake to do the job.
Once I finished the two jobs I stuck my head out of the hanger and
found that the weather was still manageable, so I dressed up in my
cold weather gear and rolled the Plane out. With the heater 31 degrees
is still good flying. I did find that the prop was a lot smoother
after the readjustment and feel that it was most definitely worth
doing. As for the gear leg fairings I will always believe that they
helped. As long as you believe then it is worth while, whether the
facts support that belief or not.
Larry C
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_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose" |
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tc1917(at)hughes.net
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: zoom zoom |
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thanks everyone for the advice on the droning. I already have my fabric
covered with noise reducing fabric on the inside of the fus. learned that
from my firestar days. I started out with no extension on the prop, still
had three inches of clearance. Put the four inch extension on (had to
refinance the house for that 6 pound piece of alum and 'special' fasteners)
that did not help but reduced it a little. repitched the prop probably six
or seven times. did not help much. tuned the carbs, manually and vacuum,
again expensive set of gauges. checked plug gaps, loose and torn fabric
search, and even changed my top gap seals on both sides of the engine and
one under the right wing. (will change one under left wing) It sounds to
me that it is coming from the engine (gear box maybe) because the sound is
there from idle up and stays about the same beat but intensifies as rpms go
up. I wonder if the main gear in the gear box is not round and is looping.
really bothersome at around 47 to 4800 rpm, 90 mph range. I will keep
trying to find it. when I do, or if I do, I will let you all know and
archieve the info. thanks again. ted cowan, alabama
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: zoom zoom |
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Ted
You probably used a stethoscope on the engine, gearbox, etc? Could be
most useful, but be careful that close to the prop!
On Nov 25, 2007, at 6:50 AM, tc1917 wrote:
| Quote: |
thanks everyone for the advice on the droning. I already have my
fabric covered with noise reducing fabric on the inside of the
fus. learned that from my firestar days. I started out with no
extension on the prop, still had three inches of clearance. Put
the four inch extension on (had to refinance the house for that 6
pound piece of alum and 'special' fasteners) that did not help but
reduced it a little. repitched the prop probably six or seven
times. did not help much. tuned the carbs, manually and vacuum,
again expensive set of gauges. checked plug gaps, loose and torn
fabric search, and even changed my top gap seals on both sides of
the engine and one under the right wing. (will change one under
left wing) It sounds to me that it is coming from the engine (gear
box maybe) because the sound is there from idle up and stays about
the same beat but intensifies as rpms go up. I wonder if the main
gear in the gear box is not round and is looping. really bothersome
at around 47 to 4800 rpm, 90 mph range. I will keep trying to find
it. when I do, or if I do, I will let you all know and archieve
the info. thanks again. ted cowan, alabama
|
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: zoom zoom |
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Ted, Have you tried taking the prop off, rotating it one lug and reinstalling?
Rick
On Nov 25, 2007 8:38 AM, Russ Kinne <russ(at)rkiphoto.com (russ(at)rkiphoto.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Russ Kinne <russ(at)rkiphoto.com (russ(at)rkiphoto.com)>
Ted
You probably used a stethoscope on the engine, gearbox, etc? Could be
most useful, but be careful that close to the prop!
On Nov 25, 2007, at 6:50 AM, tc1917 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "tc1917" < tc1917(at)hughes.net (tc1917(at)hughes.net)>
thanks everyone for the advice on the droning. I already have my
fabric covered with noise reducing fabric on the inside of the
fus. learned that from my firestar days. I started out with no
extension on the prop, still had three inches of clearance. Put
the four inch extension on (had to refinance the house for that 6
pound piece of alum and 'special' fasteners) that did not help but
reduced it a little. repitched the prop probably six or seven
times. did not help much. tuned the carbs, manually and vacuum,
again expensive set of gauges. checked plug gaps, loose and torn
> fabric search, and even changed my top gap seals on both sides of
|
| Quote: | the engine and one under the right wing. (will change one under
left wing) It sounds to me that it is coming from the engine (gear
> box maybe) because the sound is there from idle up and stays about
|
| Quote: | the same beat but intensifies as rpms go up. I wonder if the main
gear in the gear box is not round and is looping. really bothersome
at around 47 to 4800 rpm, 90 mph range. I will keep trying to find
it. when I do, or if I do, I will let you all know and archieve
the info. thanks again. ted cowan, alabama
|
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