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Compass Requirements for FAA

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gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: The Kuffels kuffel(at)cyberport.net (kuffel(at)cyberport.net)

Subject: Re: Re: Compass Requirements for FAA

Inspection



I hesitate to get involved in a "discussion" with George 

(gmcjetpilot).  He is correct about type certified aircraft 

needing a "nonstabilized magnetic compass" but homebuilts only 

needing a "Magnetic Direction Indicator"  But his statement  "you 

can fly without a compass at all in an experimental for VFR day. 

However for VFR night/IFR you do need a compass" is in error.


	


   

   

  Tom I hesitate to discuss on AeroElectic as well but the reason is below. If you don't believe me call EAA legal. (see the table below) I agree good practice and what you can get away with are not the same. It comes down to FAA Order 8130.2F, which omits Day VFR. However ELT and transponder may still be  needed. According to the EAA you can fly with out ANY instruments in an experimental DAY VFR, ANY!. See the list below. Not sure if the pagination will display properly. 

   

  I think your logic is GOOD but the FAR's are legal documents don't always make sense, aka legal loop-holes. The FAA must follow the law. However they have these "positions" that get inertia and become de facto law. I am talking legal not practical or de facto positions.

   

  Fact is the FAR's are struggling to keep up with modern EFIS GA planes. You can lean and recive your pvt, inst ratings 100% in a Garmin 1000 airplane and its legal to fly IFR the day after your check ride in a 1978 steam gauge Cessna, or vise a verse. There is a need to rewrite the FAR's. 

   

   

  MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

  FOR POWERED AMATEUR BUILT EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT

   

  Introduction: The table below is intended to give the builder of amateur built experimental aircraft a ready reference for the instrument and equipment  requirements for his aircraft. The builder should note that some items required by the FAR’s are described in the FAR’s as needing to be approved, but since there are no certification standards established for amateur built experimental aircraft no formal individual item approval, such as meeting a TSO (Technical Standard Order) or FAR Part 23, is required. However certain items must interface properly with ATC (Air Traffic Control), other aircraft, or other entities external to the aircraft. Transponders, communication radios, exterior lighting and ELT’s (Emergency Locator Transmitters) are examples of such equipment. Therefore, the builder can expect that the initial airworthiness inspection of his aircraft will require evidence that this type of equipment in the aircraft is acceptable to the FAA.

   

  The Special Airworthiness Certificate issued for each amateur built experimental aircraft includes specific Operating Limitations.  Per FAA Order 8130.2F the Operating Limitations state: “After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.”  The FAR’s, FAA Order 8130.2F, and current FAA policy have been used in constructing the below amateur built experimental aircraft configuration requirements table. 

   

  THIS TABLE DOES NOT PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR BEST PRACTICES. INSTALLING ONLY THE MINIMUM REQUIRED ITEMS MAY NOT BE PRUDENT OR SAFE.

   

  By Owen C. Baker with appreciation to Richard E. Koehler. 

   

  MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS

  FOR POWERED AMATEUR BUILT EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT

   

                                                                                                                              DAY      NIGHT       DAY OR   

            FAR & ITEM DESCRIPTION (See Notes Below Table)                  VFR        VFR       NIGHT IFR

   

  1.     91.205 (b) (1) Airspeed Indicator                                                            NR            R                 R                           

  2.     91.205 (b) (2) Altimeter                                                                             NR            R                 R                               

  3.     91.205 (b) (3) Magnetic Direction Indicator                                          NR            R                 R                

  4.     91.205 (b) (4) Tachometer for Each Engine                                            NR            R                 R             

  5.     91.205 (b) (5) Oil Pressure Gauge for Each Engine

          Using a Pressure System                                                                         NR            R                 R                              

  6.     91.205 (b) (6) Temperature Gauge for Each

          Liquid Cooled Engine                                                                               NR            R                 R           

  7.     91.205 (b) (7) Oil Temperature Gauge for Each

          Air Cooled Engine                                                                                     NR            R                 R                           

  8.     91.205 (b) ( Manifold Pressure Gauge for

           Each Altitude Engine                                                                                NR            R                 R                            

  9.     91.205 (b) (9) Fuel Gauge Indicating Quantity of Fuel

          In Each Tank                                                                                              NR            R                 R                           

  10.   91.205 (b) (10) Landing Gear Position Indicator, If Retractable          NR            R                 R                           

  11.   91.205 (b) (11) Anti-Collision Light System - 

          (Small civil airplanes certified after <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />3/11/96)                                          NR            R                 R                           

  12.   91.205 (b) (13) Approved Safety Belts With Metal to  Metal 

  Buckles for Each Occupant (2 yrs or older)                                          NR            R                 R

  13.  91.205 (b) (14) Approved Shoulder Harness for Each Front 

          Seat - For Small Civil Airplanes Manufactured After 7/18/78            NR            R                 R

  14.   91.205 (b) (15) ELT (If required by Sec. 91.207, i.e. >one seat

           and >50 miles)                                                                                           AR          AR              AR                         

  15.  91.205 (b) (16) Approved Shoulder Harness for Each Seat – 

          Airplanes With 9 or Less Seats Manufactured After 12/12/86          NR            R                 R                           

  16.   91.205 (b) (17) Shoulder Harness for Each Seat For 

          Rotorcraft  – Manufactured After 9/16/92                                             NR            R                 R                           

  17.   91.205 (c) (2) Approved Position (navigation) Lights                         NR            R                 R                           

  18.   91.205 (c) (3) Anti-Collision Light System 

          (Systems installed after 8/11/71- see reference)                                   NR            R                 R                           

  19.   91.205 (c) (5) Adequate Source of Electrical Energy for 

          Installed Equipment                                                                                  NR            R                 R                           

  20.   91.205 (c) (6) One Spare Set of Fuses or Three Fuses 

          of Each Kind Required, Must be Accessible to Pilot In Flight          NR            R                 R           

  21.   91.205 (d) (2) Two-Way Radio Communication System and

          Navigational Equipment Appropriate to Ground Facilities Used      NR          NR                 R                           

  22.   91.205 (d) (3) Gyroscopic Rate of Turn Indicator 

          (Some Exceptions, See Reference)                                                          NR          NR                R                           

  23.   91.205 (d) (4) Slip-Skid Indicator                                                             NR          NR                R                           

  24.   91.205 (d) (5) Sensitive Altimeter Adjustable for 

          Barometric Pressure, (See FAR 91.411, Altimeter System 

          Inspection Required Every 24 Calendar Months)                                NR          NR                R                           

  25.   91.205 (d) (6) Clock Displaying Hours, Minutes, and Seconds – 

          Sweep Second Pointer or Digital                                                            NR          NR                R                           

  26.  91.205 (d) (7) Electrical Generator or Alternator 

          of Adequate Capacity                                                                              NR          NR                R           

  27.  91.205 (d) ( Gyroscopic Bank and Pitch Indicator

          (Artificial Horizon)                                                                                    NR          NR                R                           

  28.   91.205 (d) (9) Gyroscopic Direction Indicator 

          (Directional Gyro or Equivalent)                                                             NR          NR                R                           

  29.  91.205 (e) DME Above FL 240                                                                N/A        N/A             AR

  30.   91.215, Transponder in Certain Airspace, (See FAR 91.413,                  

          Inspection Required Every 24 Calendar Months)                               AR          AR              AR

    

  Notes:  

  (1)   AR = As Required, NR = Not Required, N/A = Not Applicable, R = Required

   

  (2)  A fourth flight operation category, Day (only) Instruments, is not included above. 

          

   

  ABEA Minimum Inst Requirements 7.doc 11/17/2005



        Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you  ">Try it now.  [quote][b]

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:35 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA

4/27/2007



Hello George, You wrote:



1) "See the list below. Not sure if the pagination will display properly."



Thank you for giving my table more exposure. If anyone would like a copy of 

this table in Microsoft Word, properly paginated, just email me and I will 

send you one as an attachment to a return email.



2) "There is a need to rewrite the FAR's."



Here is an invitation to do so.



http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2007/pdf/E7-22346.pdf

'OC' (Owen C. Baker) Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



--------------------------------------------------



Time: 09:12:19 AM PST US

From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Compass Requirements for FAA



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: The Kuffels kuffel(at)cyberport.net

Subject: Re: Re: Compass Requirements for FAA


	


Tom I hesitate to discuss on AeroElectic as well but the reason is below. If

you don't believe me call EAA legal. (see the table below) I agree good 

practice

and what you can get away with are not the same. It comes down to FAA Order

8130.2F, which omits Day VFR. However ELT and transponder may still be 

needed.

According to the EAA you can fly with out ANY instruments in an experimental

DAY VFR, ANY!. See the list below. Not sure if the pagination will display 

properly.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Inspection


	


------------ BIG SKIP ---------------------------

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mlas(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:03 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA

The new FAR’s should read like this:  For all certified experimental aircraft fly at your own risk!  And enjoy!  

   

Mike Larkin  

   

--

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gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: Compass Requirements for FAA

Is your EFIS mag heading GOOD or NOT. 

  I don't like games like getting a Walmart car compass and than taking it out. Put it in if you are worried or need to because THE MAN said so and you don't want to argue. 

  I never could get a wet compass to work well in a RV with the roll cage and small seperation to engine, engine mount and other wires. I even tried Degaussing the steel roll bar. With a self powered EFIS & GPS do I really need a wet compass for VFR day? Do you need to back up your MAGNETIC EFIS heading? 

  Truth is the FAA is struggling with GPS and EFIS in the FARS. The FAA has non-regulatory "Guidance", Policy, AIM, NPRM, AC, Orders, TSOs and its hard to keep track of. Many are "reglatory in nature". Great than make them FAR's. They need to update the FAR's to deal with the glass cockpit in GA planes. G

  >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <[url=http://us.f431.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net&YY 1627&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b]nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net[/url]>

 	  Quote: 	
		  Subject: Re: Re: Compass Requirements for FAA  

 >Inspection

 	  Quote: 	

  >At 11:02 AM 11/26/2007 -0600, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

          The cost of a Whisky compass compared to other instruments

 most 

 	  Quote: 	
		   experimental builders purchase is rather moot. Why not just install

 one 

 	  Quote: 	
		   that can be removed and installed in seconds. If ramp checked one

 could 

 	  Quote: 	
		   just reach to the readilly available compass and slide it into place.

 I 

 	  Quote: 	
		   don't think there is anything stated in the FAR's requiring the

 compass 

 	  Quote: 	
		   to be permanently mounted. If ramp  checked one could use an excuse 

 something like "I dismounted it for better visability while landing".

 	  Quote: 	
		   This is what I plan to do. Hopefully it will keep everyone happy.

 	  Quote: 	
		  >    Sounds good to me. Cuts way down on the

>    need for "A glass of Jack and an aspirin

>    sandwich."

        Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.     [quote][b]

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