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Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Graham et al,



As I contemplate installation of this mod, I recall having the good 

fortune of meeting William Mills at Sun 'n Fun. William gave me a list 

of 4 things to do to ensure trouble free XS monowheel operations, one 

of which was a recommendation to change the geometry of the Steering 

Horn included with Graham's mod. I'm looking for counsel from anyone w/ 

direct monowheel experience using the Singleton tail wheel mod as well 

as from Graham, the designer.



The Singleton steering horn has a distance of 4" between the holes in 

the "horns". William recommended to me that I fabricate a new steering 

horn which spreads the horns a bit so that the distance between the 

horn-holes becomes 6".



William used the term, "spread", because he was clear that the distance 

between the centerlines of the horn-holes and the two mounting holes 

must remain the same as that of the Singleton steering horn.



I'm not clear as to just what the implications of such a change would 

be; however, William was convinced that such a change would enhance 

directional control during t/o's and land'gs. So I'm asking whether or 

not this is a subject with which others have grappled, and whether or 

not a definitive conclusion has been reached.  (?)



All comments would be much appreciated,



Fred

A194 

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DanBish

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 29
Location: TUCSON, AZ

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Hi Fred,



Can't say I have experience with the operation of the mod yet, but I've posted some photos of it in the gallery if that'll help. 



http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album169&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



Dan

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

On Tuesday, Nov 27, 2007, at 20:36 US/Pacific, danbish wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Can't say I have experience with the operation of the mod yet, but  

 I've posted some photos of it in the gallery if that'll help.



 http://www.europaowners.org/ 

 modules.php?set_albumName=album169&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&i 

 nclude=view_album.php


	


Outstanding documentation and workmanship Dan...thanks,    Fred

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davedeford(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Fred,



We installed Graham's tailwheel mod on N135TD and found it too touchy for

our liking.  Rather than extending the steering horn on the tailwheel, we

moved the attachment points for the tailwheel cables closer to the pivot

point on the control arm at the rear of the fuselage.  Our steering

sensitivity is now similar to the factory setup, about the same as what you

would get with William's recommendation.  We have had it this way for about

6 years and are happy with the performance.



Dave



[quote] --

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Have the mod, and some experience, about 50 hours and +120 landings, all on concrete/asphalt. No problem whatsoever, i like it. Choose the mod, because i noticed that i was literally standing on the pedals, during an exiting landing with the club's super cub. Would not like to apply that load to the standard lower hinge.  

Before the first flight Graham supplied me with a wider drive plate, and there is easily enough authority with it. 



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:01 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Fred,

I fitted the standard Singleton mod from new, and now have 500+ hrs with it.

I like both the appearance and the performance, and have never felt the need

to contemplate altering it

Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ

---

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Fred,



Not having flown N914XL yet, (Maybe sometime within the next 6 - 8 weeks?) I can't speak from direct experience.  But it has been reported that, using the provided geometry from the provided parts, the steering can be a bit overly sensitive.  I have one of the wider (6" between drive holes vs. 4") tail wheel control horns which I intend to install prior to putting the aircraft on the trailer.  The individual who provided the wider control horn says it does wonders for the landing handling by making the steering less sensitive.



One of Tommy's Little Toots is also overly sensitive on landing.  We are preparing to move the tailwheel drive cable attachment points outboard and inch or so to see if it helps there as well.



Dave DeFord's suggestion would also work if you still have decent access to the interior mod assembly.  I don't, so I'm going with the wider tailwheel horn.



Hope this helps,

Bob Borger



On Tuesday, November 27, 2007, at 07:03PM, "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Graham et al,



As I contemplate installation of this mod, I recall having the good 

fortune of meeting William Mills at Sun 'n Fun. William gave me a list 

of 4 things to do to ensure trouble free XS monowheel operations, one 

of which was a recommendation to change the geometry of the Steering 

Horn included with Graham's mod. I'm looking for counsel from anyone w/ 

direct monowheel experience using the Singleton tail wheel mod as well 

as from Graham, the designer.



The Singleton steering horn has a distance of 4" between the holes in 

the "horns". William recommended to me that I fabricate a new steering 

horn which spreads the horns a bit so that the distance between the 

horn-holes becomes 6".



William used the term, "spread", because he was clear that the distance 

between the centerlines of the horn-holes and the two mounting holes 

must remain the same as that of the Singleton steering horn.



I'm not clear as to just what the implications of such a change would 

be; however, William was convinced that such a change would enhance 

directional control during t/o's and land'gs. So I'm asking whether or 

not this is a subject with which others have grappled, and whether or 

not a definitive conclusion has been reached.  (?)



All comments would be much appreciated,



Fred

A194 

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

On Wednesday, Nov 28, 2007, at 00:21 US/Pacific, josok wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Before the first flight Graham supplied me with a wider drive plate, 

 and there is easily enough authority with it.


	


Jos,



When you say "wider drive plate", do you know the distance between the 

centers of the holes on the horns?



Thanks...and many happy landings!



Fred

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nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

 	  Quote: 	
		  We installed Graham's tailwheel mod on N135TD and found it too touchy

for our liking.<
	




I found the mod to be very worthwhile. Its sensitivity is dependant on

the tension of the tailwheel springs so it is important to set those to

your liking.



The only factory mod from the Classic the the XS which I don't like is

the rudder horn. The original pushrod is much neater and stronger with

no extra drag. I know of at least one XS builder who retrofitted the

pushrod. Putting the tailwheel springs inside the fuselage likewise

improves things.



Nigel Charles

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Hi Nigel



"Its sensitivity is dependent on the tension of the tailwheel springs so

it is important to set those to your liking."



My impression is if tailwheel drive springs are loose, it would be like

driving a car with a worn rack and pinion?? You can do it, it will not be

as sensitive as one with no play, but then again you will not be able to

maintain precise directional control due to hysteresis.



Please explain why loosing the springs would be more desirable to having

precise control over tailwheel by rudder inputs and if too touchy then

tame down by shorter drive moment arm or longer driven moment arm?



Ron Parigoris

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

 	  Quote: 	
		  My impression is if tailwheel drive springs are loose, it would be like

driving a car with a worn rack and pinion?? You can do it, it will not
	


be as sensitive as one with no play, but then again you will not be able

to maintain precise directional control due to hysteresis.



Please explain why loosing the springs would be more desirable to having

precise control over tailwheel by rudder inputs and if too touchy then

tame down by shorter drive moment arm or longer driven moment arm?<



I would think Graham Singleton is the best person to explain. However I

will give you my thoughts and you can decide whether they have any

merit.



If the springs are too tight the tailwheel will be too powerful at

higher speeds when the rudder should be controlling. If you reduce the

gearing by using longer arms you will increase the already large turning

circle when at taxying speeds. Whatever arm length you use it is

important to line up the sleaving tubes reasonably accurately before

fixing them into the fuselage. There has been one case of excessive

cable wear due to the cables rubbing against the tubes at extremes of

travel. Obviously if they are too loose the steering becomes

ineffective. I seem to remember Graham giving some guidance as to spring

tension and it worked OK for me. If you have the springs too tight you

might as well do without them altogether. When they are at the right

setting it is possible to tighten the turn on taxi by applying a burst

of power whilst applying full rudder. This causes the outboard spring to

extend tightening the turn. This has to be done carefully to avoid a

full ground loop but works well when needing to do a 180 degree turn at

the end of a narrow runway.



Others with more hours on their Europas than I have agree that the setup

seems to work so I would only change things if Graham advised it or

significant handling or engineering problems developed.



Nigel Charles

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Fred



I will have to go to the airport and measure. I heard that the change has been made after Andy refused to test fly an original Singleton mod, because of lack of authority. I am sure Graham can help with the dimensions of the narrow and wider drive plates? Graham?



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

Troy Maynor

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 162

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

To Fred , 

I am confuse about the labels you used in the follow quote of yours.

<<

William used the term, "spread", because he was clear that the distance 

between the centerlines of the horn-holes and the two mounting holes 

must remain the same as that of the Singleton steering horn.

<<

The "horn holes" are on the Singleton steering horn, right? Which "mounting

holes"? I am being dense I know. But forgive me please. 



To Dave,



You said: 

<<Rather than extending the steering horn on the tailwheel, we

moved the attachment points for the tailwheel cables closer to the pivot

point on the control arm at the rear of the fuselage.  Our steering

sensitivity is now similar to the factory setup, about the same as what you

would get with William's recommendation.>>

What was the advantage of this over doing it outside where you can have

better access? Did you just drill a couple holes and that was it? I too have

Graham's mod and had forgotten this had been suggested a few years or months

ago.



Troy Maynor

N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic

Left to finish:

Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring.

Weaverville, NC USA

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

On Wednesday, Nov 28, 2007, at 18:52 US/Pacific, Troy Maynor wrote:

\

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am confuse about the labels you used in the follow quote of yours.

 <<

 William used the term, "spread", because he was clear that the distance

 between the centerlines of the horn-holes and the two mounting holes

 must remain the same as that of the Singleton steering horn.

 <<

 The "horn holes" are on the Singleton steering horn, right? Which 

 "mounting

 holes"? I am being dense I know. But forgive me please.


	


Troy,



Sorry for having been confusing to you; let me try to clarify what I 

meant.



The Singleton steering horn has a total of 4 holes; one in each horn 

for the cables, and 2 which are used to mount the steering horn on the 

tail wheel mount.



If you draw a centerline between the two cable attachment holes which 

are 4" apart and a second centerline between the two mounting holes, 

there will be a measurable distance between the 2 centerlines.



What William was saying was that, whereas he was recommending that the 

4" distance between the 2 cable attachment holes be increased to 6", 

that measurable distance between the 2 centerlines should remain the 

same.  Thus when William said "spread" the horns, he was suggesting 

that the angle between the horrn on the right and the horn on the left 

would increase...rather than achieving the 6" distance by merely 

elongating the respective horns.



I hope this clarified my previous post.



Fred

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davedeford(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Troy,



	The point of drilling new holes in the drive arm, rather than

extending the horn on the tailwheel, was to minimize the spread of the

cables where they exit the rear of the fuselage.  The change in angle is

already pretty large (greater than the FAA's recommended maximum for a

fairlead) with Graham's original horn, and it looked as if it would be worse

with a larger spread on the horn.  (The appearance is somewhat nicer as

well.)  If you could find the right spots to drill holes in the rear

fuselage to route the tailwheel drive cables straight from the drive arm,

this would not be a factor.  After 6 years and 500 hours, the fairleads have

not worn through.



	We drilled the new holes in the drive arm at about 2/3 of the

spacing of the original holes.  This left plenty of clearance on the

starboard side for a shackle to connect the tailwheel cable, but a port-side

shackle would have interfered with the rudder pushrod (which was not

changed).  Instead, we fastened a short strip of metal to the hole with a

clevis pin, and then secured the port-side tailwheel cable to the aft end of

the strip, bent downward (in the direction the cable goes) to clear the

rudder pushrod.



	This change was made after the airplane was flying, by removing the

drive arm through the inspection hole, adding the holes and metal extension

strip, and reinstalling the arm.  We had made quite a few flights off of

pavement with the original setup, keeping the springs lightly compressed per

Graham's recommendation. We felt that the springs were delaying the steering

response (which was quite sensitive as well), making it harder to get just

the right amount of rudder input without overshoot.



	Dave DeFord

	N135TD



 	  Quote: 	
		   You said: 

 <<Rather than extending the steering horn on the tailwheel, we

 moved the attachment points for the tailwheel cables closer to the pivot

 point on the control arm at the rear of the fuselage.  Our steering

 sensitivity is now similar to the factory setup, about the same as what

 you

 would get with William's recommendation.>>

 What was the advantage of this over doing it outside where you can have

 better access? Did you just drill a couple holes and that was it? I too

 have Graham's mod and had forgotten this had been suggested a few years or

 months ago.

 

 Troy Maynor

johnwigney(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Hi Fred,



I endorse David's comments.  I also fitted the Singleton mod from new 

and I have 570 + hrs.  It has served me very well and I have never seen 

the need to alter the standard setup.



Cheers, John



N262WF, mono XS, 912S

Mooresville, North Carolina



ORIGINAL MESSAGE

From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>

Subject: Re: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Fred,

I fitted the standard Singleton mod from new, and now have 500+ hrs with it.

I like both the appearance and the performance, and have never felt the need

to contemplate altering it

Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ

stranfaer(at)btinternet.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Just thought I would let you all know the reason that Graham has not made 

comment on this thread, he has been away all week, I do know he will be back 

sometime during the day on friday.



It would be reasonable to expect a comment fairly soon after his return 



rgds



David Joyce (the other one)

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Fred and all,



would you like to tell us also

the rest 3 things to ensure

XS MW trouble free operations?



I understand the benefits of the

Graham´s tailwheel mod but

personally I have been totally

happy w factory original tailwheel

assembly. And Jos is right - it is

wise to use rudder pedals only gently

to avoid overstress the mechanism.

For example when doing steep turns

I push the pedal only little and let it go

to the stop "by itself" w/o any significant

force.



Few days ago I performed some icetests

like landing and groundhandling. There 

was no problem and so I was tempted to 

make some fun and aplied full rudder 

and some power on the very slippery apron area:



voilá my Europa was making fast & nice 

pirouettes in it´s place and it looked like



 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Korpi_kiira.jpg



(this was a gift for all Europa gentlemen).



Raimo



OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417,  47 hrs & 110 landings

37500  Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753 777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358 40 590 1450



raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi

www.rwm.fi

---

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

On Thursday, Nov 29, 2007, at 11:30 US/Pacific, Raimo Toivio wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   would you like to tell us also

 the rest 3 things to ensure

 XS MW trouble free operations?


	


Raimo,



Happy to do so; from my notes of a conversation with William Mills at 

Sun 'n Fun, 2007; also present was Terry Greaves; William made the 

following recommendations:



1. Add weight in tail to get the CG at the aft limit,



2. Modify Graham Singleton's tail wheel mod (as per previous post),



3. Outrigger Rod Lengths: delay drilling the bolt holes into the wheel 

brackets until the very end of your build; ensure that the O/R rods are 

long enough so both wheels touch on level ground.



4. Make initial flights on grass.



Fred



PS: Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion of the tail wheel 

issue. Too many years ago when I was considering building a Q-200, the 

mantra was "Don't build in isolation!" and I recall making two short 

trips to visit another builder to learn the special joys of hot-wiring 

foam; such visits, a monthly newsletter, and Oshkosh forums were the 

extent of the ability to share information. How different things are 

today, w/ nearly instantaneous global feedback  on any question which 

arises from a variety of informed sources thanks to the internet, the 

Europa Club, and folks like SteveD and Matt Draille.

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Singleton Tail Wheel Mod

Ron & All

sorry I wasn't here earlier. Been away doing a Mod 73 and a PFA (LAA!) 

seminar on how to inspect.

I designed the original mod to have the same geometry as the old Classic 

steering (to give a useful turning circle on the ground.) Completing a 

180 deg turn on the runway at Wombleton e.g.! but set the spring tension 

to allow overiding the tailwheel springs with rudder deflection for 

crosswind control. IOW the wheel would be in trail even with full rudder 

deflection. Many of us have learnt to handle most conditions like this 

but it does require instant response to yaw on the ground.

Experience has shown that having better tailwheel authority on the 

ground is an advantage so a few people have tried 5 inches between the 

cable attach points and found it works better (Jos) and one or two 6 

inches, ( Brian Fogg) I think 6" is good but does increase the turning 

circle a bit so you couldn't 180 at Wombleton. You'd need to persuade 

the owner to widen the runway!

A couple of people (Tony Higgins) have used 6" and moved the attach 

points rearwards like the factory configuration. (instead of the Vee I 

use) The factory config. gives more authority at the extremes of the 

range but has the disadvantage that the springs tend to pull the rudder 

to one side or the other. Mine gives even spring tension across the 

range of movement.

Graham

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi Nigel

 

 "Its sensitivity is dependent on the tension of the tailwheel springs so

 it is important to set those to your liking."

 

 My impression is if tailwheel drive springs are loose, it would be like

 driving a car with a worn rack and pinion?? You can do it, it will not be

 as sensitive as one with no play, but then again you will not be able to

 maintain precise directional control due to hysteresis.

 

 Please explain why loosing the springs would be more desirable to having

 precise control over tailwheel by rudder inputs and if too touchy then

 tame down by shorter drive moment arm or longer driven moment arm?

 

 Ron Parigoris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

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