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taxy with the wings folded
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vetdrem



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but, here goes.

Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded? It sure would make the trip from my hanger to the runway a lot easier. I don't know if the differential braking would snap the tail wheel out of the detents and allow turns or not.

Please be kink, I'm sensitive. Smile

vetdrem


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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:17 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

With the extra weight on the tail wheel I personally wouldn't try it. Also
if the tail spring breaks you will also lose your wings.

Noel

[quote] --


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

I find this message disturbing. Kitfox.

<<vetdrem>>
<<Please be kinky, I'm sensitive. Smile>>

DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Sandt, Ridgecrest


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LarryM



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Genoa, IL

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

I concur with Noel.

Larry


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Tom Jones



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

Vetdrem, I'll be kind,
When I think about taxing with the wings folded all kinds of reasons not to come to mind. The weight on the tail spring is a major deterrent.

I take it that between your hangar and the runway there are obstructions to spreading the wings? I would invest in a four wheel motorcycle, an old pickup, riding lawnmower, utility trailer, anything I could set the tail wheel on with the wings folded and tow it out there.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

John

I think what the writer probably meant was ""please be kind I'm sensitive""
meaning that don't flame me as I'm just asking a question that some may
perceive to be a silly.

DO NOT ARCHIVE

Hope that helps.

Ted Palamarek
Kitfox IV - 912
Edmonton, Ab

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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

At 03:05 PM 11/27/2007, you wrote:
Quote:
I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but,
here goes.

Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded? It sure would make
the trip from my hanger to the runway a lot easier. I don't know if
the differential braking would snap the tail wheel out of the
detents and allow turns or not.

OMIGAWD, that is the STUPIDEST question I ever heard! I CAN'T believe
you asked it. Wink (We entertain all questions here, even ones you may
think are stupid. And we frequently give stupid answers. By the way,
I actually didn't think it was a very stupid question. You'll have to
try a lot harder.)

Of course a Kitfox can be taxied with the wings folded.You'll only be
able to go straight ahead, and you'll want to be exceedingly careful
because of the excessive load on the tailwheel, wings, and fuselage,
but it will taxi just fine. (It won't turn because the flaperons lie
next to the rudder, preventing it, and subsequently the tail wheel,
from turning. You could rig the wings to fold partially to a position
that would allow the rudder full travel and you'd be able to turn.
You'd then just have to deal with the loads issue.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

Guys sez:

Quote:
Of course a Kitfox can be taxied with the wings folded.You'll only
be able to go straight ahead, and you'll want to be exceedingly
careful because of the excessive load on the tailwheel, wings, and
fuselage, but it will taxi just fine.

I have to respectfully disagree with my esteemed colleague. I think
trying to taxi a Kitfox with the wings folded is a really, really bad
idea. It seems like a sure-fire way to damage the tail wheel
assembly, at least, and likely the entire airplane since you won't be
able to steer.

Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ


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Michel



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

On Nov 28, 2007, at 2:35 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
Quote:
I take it that between your hangar and the runway there are
obstructions to spreading the wings? I would invest in a four wheel
motorcycle, an old pickup, riding lawnmower, utility trailer, anything
I could set the tail wheel on with the wings folded and tow it out
there.

I was once considering folding my wings, not to taxi but to get easier
in the hangar. I thought that the best way to manoeuvre the plane would
then be by building a tail dolly. Imagine a pyramid upside-down, built
in steel or even wood. On the 'top' a free-castoring wheel. On the
'base' two holes in which I put a long bolt that goes in the tube used
for an eventual dorsal fin (at least, on my model 3 - don't know about
other models). The rest of the 'base' is padded to receive the
fuselage.
To put on the dolly, I fix the bolt then lift the tail and the
'pyramid' goes in an upside-down position.

The advantages are: It is easier to fold the wings when the plane is
level; less weight pulling the wings backward. It is then probably
possible to fold and unfold the wings alone. Next, you don't have to
remove the fuel that may leak from having the wing folded.

If one has to taxi that one, one should also consider putting a stopper
on the pedals so that no pressure is put on the rudder while one is
still able to 'steer' by differential braking.

Just a thought.
Cheers,

Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200


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occom



Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

I thought about this and the first thing that came to mind is that you
likely wont taxi far, and you have to bleed the fuel system before takeoff.
Most kitfoxes with wings folded have a limited fuel load to keep the vents
from bleeding fuel. As you fold the wings what fuel there is tends to move
away from the pickups, so you may be running on the header tank only and
introducing air.

People who actually have FLYING Kitfoxes may find this is wrong, it's just
the way I figured it would turn out.

Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582
do not archive


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dave



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

    I few of my thoughts on the "idea"

    I would not want to travel with folded wings without wing root braces.

    Then you have to fold out your wings and possibly would have missing hardware that you forgot, hence a trip back to hangar.

    Heavy load on tail wheel spring.

    Lack of being able to have full fuel tanks.

    End of flapperons come into cabin and might hit you in back of head?

    Where you going to put turtle deck ?

    If Controlled airport -- might be an issue trying to get a clearance to unfold your wings on taxiway.?

    Basically I have no idea why anyone would to do this, perhaps you could advise us of the reason you ask to do this ? If there an issue of taxing with wings folded? Your Kitfox wings are likely 10 times or more stronger rigged than folded, alot of strain on the rear spar at the first rib. Besides, you are better off getting it all rigged and checked over without having the feeling of having to rush .


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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

Get an old skidoo and mount tundra tires where the skis are...makes a great
little tractor. Without going the power route you could make a dolly for
the tail wheel. It should take the load just in front of the tail spring
and the dolly will need to be able to handle a load of close to 150 lb. To
give a margin of strength. Open the wings, temporarily to put the tail up
on the dolly and to take it down. You could leave the tail up on the dolly
in the garage too.

I think an American Flyer wagon will probably be a bit too light but you can
build something using old bicycle wheels. The larger the wheel the easier
it will be to pull. Oh yes pulling is easier than pushing.

Noel

[quote] --


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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

No silly questions in my book. I'd sooner a person ask than damage his
plane.

Noel

[quote] --


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n85ae



Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

OK, I haven't been flamed in a while so I'll just blurt it out. I know a lot
of people are thinking it anyway.

You're crazy, that is a stupid idea for more reason's than there is time
in the day to answer. If you reply, with the same question my four year
old would, which is "why?". Then in my opinion you should be banished
from the list - Forever.

Ok, one little elaboration. BECAUSE the next question you'll ask is -
Can I fly it with the wings folded, sort of like an F-14?

Ok, I don't text message on the cellphone, but I think the appropriate
mesg would be ROFLMAO

Smile

Regards,
Jeff.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

Gee whiz Jeff, you shouldn't sugar coat things so much! Smile
Deke
do not archive

Subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded
Quote:


OK, I haven't been flamed in a while so I'll just blurt it out. I know a
lot
of people are thinking it anyway.

You're crazy, that is a stupid idea for more reason's than there is time
in the day to answer. If you reply, with the same question my four year
old would, which is "why?". Then in my opinion you should be banished
from the list - Forever.

Ok, one little elaboration. BECAUSE the next question you'll ask is -
Can I fly it with the wings folded, sort of like an F-14?

Ok, I don't text message on the cellphone, but I think the appropriate
mesg would be ROFLMAO

Smile

Regards,
Jeff.


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149183#149183




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

Ok you must have some kind of obstruction between the hanger and the runway
that you cannot pass with the wings out. That said I would not taxi with
the wings folded as you have cut the mounting surface in half ( front wing
bolt removed ) and left the leading edge unsupported. This could cause a
twisting force on the wing that it was not designed to take. In a worst
case scenario breaking the epoxy joint between the spar and rib in a place
that is not easily found. That is just my opinion and I am in no way an
expert.

--


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n85ae



Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

Oh, yeah I know, this is the kinder, gentler, more diplomatic version of
me. Plus it's the holiday season and all.

OK - Perhaps, there's a reasonable explanation for wanting to taxi with
wings folded, but it's just too good an opportunity to pass up.

Jeff

Fox5flyer wrote:
Gee whiz Jeff, you shouldn't sugar coat things so much! Smile
Deke
do not archive

Subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded



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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

Michel:

I like the idea of your inverted pyramid. I think you could use the through
tubes in the frame for the tow bar. I agree 100% with it being easier to
fold the wings with the tail up. It would also be easy to install a tow bar
(for handling) on the lip of the inverted pyramid.

As for taxiing with the wings folded ... Not on my plane! Tail up or down!

Noel
Quote:
I was once considering folding my wings, not to taxi but to get easier
in the hangar. I thought that the best way to manoeuvre the plane would
then be by building a tail dolly. Imagine a pyramid upside-down, built
in steel or even wood. On the 'top' a free-castoring wheel. On the
'base' two holes in which I put a long bolt that goes in the tube used
for an eventual dorsal fin (at least, on my model 3 - don't know about
other models). The rest of the 'base' is padded to receive the
fuselage.
To put on the dolly, I fix the bolt then lift the tail and the
'pyramid' goes in an upside-down position.

The advantages are: It is easier to fold the wings when the plane is
level; less weight pulling the wings backward. It is then probably
possible to fold and unfold the wings alone. Next, you don't have to
remove the fuel that may leak from having the wing folded.

If one has to taxi that one, one should also consider putting a stopper
on the pedals so that no pressure is put on the rudder while one is
still able to 'steer' by differential braking.

Just a thought.
Cheers,

Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200






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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

If you consider yourself flamed, I'll consider myself flamed too.

Noel

P.S. Can is expect to gain a bit of airspeed if I fly with the wings
folded??? Will it affect any VGs??? Lol

[quote] --


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kitfoxmike



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: taxy with the wings folded Reply with quote

if you taxi with the wings open, it opens the doors for a lot of fun when there is a bunch of snow on the taxi ways. Get yourself going and hit one brake and get it sliding sideways, real fun.

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