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Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

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dforney(at)bctonline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

I am new to this list and I apologize up front for my ignorance.  I am not familiar with Rotax engines, but I am seriously considering purchasing an SLSA that is equipped with that type of engine.  

   

Recently the lawmakers (at our governor’s bequest) passed a law that is scheduled to go into affect the first of the new year.  The law mandates that all fuels sold in the state must contain 10% ethanol.  In their infinite wisdom they neglected to put in any provisions or exemptions for aviation fuel or autogas to be used in aviation.  

   

My question is, what affect does an ethanol containing fuel have on the Rotax engine?  Will it burn ethanol containing fuel or is 100LL aviation fuel a better (only) choice other than ethanol containing fuel?   

   

Does it impact the warranty or maintenance of the Rotax engine?  

   

Thank you,  

   

Dan  

   

   

       [quote][b]

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

Dan,



The 912 series Rotax engines are in many ways far superior to the 50  

year old technology Lycoming and Continental engines you are probably  

used to. But they are different and require a bit of learning  

regarding starting technique and operating methods. Once you get used  

to the differences you will probably like it better.



Are you located in Michigan?



The EAA has launched a major campaign to stop the Michigan law as it  

is now proposed with expectation that it will be stopped. The EAA has  

proposed that the law exempt high octane auto fuel so that aircraft  

designed to run on auto fuel (Rotax engines for example) or those GA  

aircraft that have auto fuel STCs which strictly prohibit ethanol can  

continue to run auto fuel instead of 100LL.



According to the Rotax manuals, up to 5% ethanol in the fuel is no  

problem. They do not say explicitly anywhere that I've seen that 10%  

is okay or that it is not okay. Bing, the manufacturer of the  

carburetors used on Rotax engines, sells a retrofit kit with seals  

etc. that are compatible with ethanol laced fuels.



In the worst case scenario, i.e., the law passes as proposed, you can  

use 100LL in the Rotax engines all the time if you wish. However, the  

oil and filter change interval recommendations are reduced somewhat. I  

know of many Rotax powered aircraft that run only 100LL because it is  

more convenient than carrying auto fuel to the hangar in 5 gallon  

containers. Another option which should reduce your fuel costs as well  

as limit the ethanol content to 5% is to mix auto fuel 50/50 with  

100LL. This will also reduce the lead content compared to straight  

100LL. Bottom line, I would not let the propsed legislation keep you  

from buying an aircraft with the great 912 series Rotax engines.



Thom in Buffalo

FAA Powerplant Mechanic

Allegro 2000 w/ Rotax 912UL

Kolb Firestar w/ Rotax 447

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

Oregon is trying to do the same thing. EAA is fighting it trying to make 91 octane exempt I don't know the status on the matter at this time..

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Tucson, Az.
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Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

The safety of alcohol based fuel is actually several independent issues



1) Fuel system: obsolete aircraft like cessnas and pipers use gaskets in various places in the fuel system which dissolve in ethanol. Recently

designed LSAs should not have this problem. The problem is worst with either cork or natural rubber based gaskets



2) Energy density:  alcohol has less energy per liter than gasoline



3) Vapor pressure:  alcohol has higher vapor pressure and may cause

a vapor lock at high temps or high altitudes



others issues also.  None the less, most people can use E10 most of the time with no problem.  Rotax tested 5% exstensively, but has not tested

10% therefore no reccommendation



Ira

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Ira N224XS

goodings(at)yorku.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

In Canada, most oil companies sell 87, 89 and 91 octane autogas.  For

PetroCanada and Shell, I know for a fact that methanol is added to 87,

none to 91, and 89 is mixed at the pump 50:50, and has half the methanol.

It is cheaper for the oil companies to add it to one grade, and not both;

thus, they like it!  The gas stations only need two storage tanks.  I

believe Esso does the same thing, but am only certain about PetroCan and

Shell.  Rotax 912S engines (100HP) require 91 octane.  Older Rotax 912

engines (80 HP) can use 87 octane, but run perfectly well on 91 octane.

There is one flying school that has more than 87,000 hours on Katanas

equipped with 80 HP R912 engines; they have always used 91 octane auto gas

exclusively.



John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa, Toronto/Waterloo.

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dforney(at)bctonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

Roger,  

   

Thanks for your response.  That is where I live.  A few of my local EAA chapter members went to the hearings held this week in Salem.  They report that it appear that the legislation will go into affect before there is any opportunity to correct or repeal it.  I believe that it is to go into affect the first part of the year.  I guess we will see.   

       [quote][b]

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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

Hi Dan,



Personally I would run 10% ethanol before I would burn 100LL. I did burn 10% ethanol for 2 years without any issues and have talked to countless others who have been using it for many years. Attending the Rotax classes convinced me to run the 10% ethanol over 100LL.

It's definitely a personal choice to do so. In Tucson we have 10% ethanol from Oct. to either April or May. I am lucky enough to have a gas station just down the road from the airport that is considered agricultural and they use straight 91 Oct.

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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: Ethanol Mandate for All Fuel in State

John,



Thanks for the explanation of what they are doing in Canada.  

Interesting and smart way of handling it. One question though. Are you  

certain the alcohol used is METHANOL instead of ETHANOL? Not the same  

thing, you know.



Thom in Buffalo

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

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