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Battery Question?

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

Good Afternoon,

  

 I am sure this information is available somewhere in 'Lectric Bob's  extensive library, but my searching skills are almost non existent.

  

 I have the need for a twenty-eight volt battery set up for testing  purposes. I would imagine something that would supply ten to fifteen ampere  hours would be more than enough. 

  

 I do have several controllable bench power supplies to provide reasonable  amperage and voltage, but a couple of twelve volt units in parallel would give  me a nice stabilizing and cushioning device.

  

 Could any one suggest a source of low cost batteries that might be suitable  for use with a bench power supply? 

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503

  

  



See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

Good Afternoon All,

  

 Just as an addendum to my previous request, I did a google search and came  up with something I thought may work. 

  

 Interstate Batteries lists a Power Patrol battery that seems about the  right size. It is listed as being a 7.5 AH battery with a potential of handling  80 amps for up to five seconds and fifty amps continuously (For not long I would  suppose!)

  

 They also have a nice, though more expensive, unit that has an 18 AH rating  and can handle 250 amps for five seconds, eighty amps continuously.

  

 The big one would probably even handle a gear retraction or two!

  

 I am leaning toward the purchase of a couple of the smaller ones. Any  comments at all?

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8503   

  In a message dated 12/16/2007 3:33:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,  BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Could any one suggest a source of low cost batteries that might be    suitable for use with a bench power supply?  

	






See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

OOOPS!!

  

 Should have said series as in:

  

 "I do have several controllable bench power supplies to provide reasonable  amperage and voltage, but a couple of twelve volt units in series would  give me a nice stabilizing and cushioning device."



  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8503   

  In a message dated 12/16/2007 3:33:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,  BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I do have several controllable bench power supplies to provide reasonable    amperage and voltage, but a couple of twelve volt units in parallel would give    me a nice stabilizing and cushioning  device.

	






See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

schaefer(at)rts-services.
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

You can get 12V 7.5 Amp/Hour batteries in lots of places cheap.  

They are used for:  

            Emergency Exit Signs and Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) for computers.  

   

Check at your local big box hardware store in the electrical department or a local electrical or lighting supply house or check if there is a Batteries R US (Or something like that) near you.  

   

Series for big volts, parallel for big amps J  

   

r.t.s.  

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:36 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Battery Question?  

  

       

OOOPS!!  

    

   

    

Should have said series as in:  

    

   

    

"I do have several controllable bench power supplies to provide reasonable amperage and voltage, but a couple of twelve volt units in series would give me a nice stabilizing and cushioning device."  

  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8503     

   

      

In a message dated 12/16/2007 3:33:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

I do have several controllable bench power supplies to provide reasonable amperage and voltage, but a couple of twelve volt units in parallel would give me a nice stabilizing and cushioning device.  

  	
  

  

  



 

         

  

See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.  

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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

At 05:20 PM 12/16/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Good Afternoon All,



Just as an addendum to my previous request, I did a google search and came 

up with something I thought may work.



Interstate Batteries lists a Power Patrol battery that seems about the 

right size. It is listed as being a 7.5 AH battery with a potential of 

handling 80 amps for up to five seconds and fifty amps continuously (For 

not long I would suppose!)



They also have a nice, though more expensive, unit that has an 18 AH 

rating and can handle 250 amps for five seconds, eighty amps continuously.



The big one would probably even handle a gear retraction or two!



I am leaning toward the purchase of a couple of the smaller ones. Any 

comments at all?


	


   Can your power supplies be cranked up to 14.2 or thereabouts?

   Also, you need to check and see how much (if any) current

   flows back into the power supplies when they are powered-down

   and still connected to batteries.



   Using batteries to augment bench supplies is not an unreasonable

   thing to consider. We used to do it in the two-way radio

   business all the time. Most radios ran nicely in the receive

   mode from a modest power supply but took 20+ Amps for

   some of the big honkers. We would float a battery across

   the power supply for temporary support of very intermittent

   loads.



   What kind of work are you wanting to accomplish with this

   supply? If it's a relatively low priority, occasional kind

   of activity, perhaps the batteries are your best bet . . .

   but they are like houseplants . . . you gotta take care

   of them.



   How much current do you need at 28V . . . or would 24.0

   do the job?



   Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

At 05:20 PM 12/16/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Good Afternoon All,



Just as an addendum to my previous request, I did a google search and came 

up with something I thought may work.



Interstate Batteries lists a Power Patrol battery that seems about the 

right size. It is listed as being a 7.5 AH battery with a potential of 

handling 80 amps for up to five seconds and fifty amps continuously (For 

not long I would suppose!)



They also have a nice, though more expensive, unit that has an 18 AH 

rating and can handle 250 amps for five seconds, eighty amps continuously.



The big one would probably even handle a gear retraction or two!



I am leaning toward the purchase of a couple of the smaller ones. Any 

comments at all?


	


   Toss this idea in the hat. Theres a power supply on

   ebay right now at:



http://tinyurl.com/2mzrkk



   For a total cost of about $50 you can have a power

   supply that will support 15A indefinitely and it's

   probably only a little more expensive than a pair

   of 7.5AH batteries. The best thing is that you

   don't have to water, fertilize or pray over it

   either!



   Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

Good Evening Bob,

  

 "Can your power supplies be cranked up to 14.2 or  thereabouts?

   Also, you need to check and see how much (if any)  current

   flows back into the power supplies when they are  powered-down

   and still connected to batteries."

  

 Darned if I know!

  

 The primary one that I hope to use is a variable power supply that is  supposed to be capable of supplying up to 40 volts and 25 amperes. It is a  Hewlett-Packard 6438B which means absolutely nothing to me!



 "What kind of work are you wanting to accomplish with this

    supply? If it's a relatively low priority, occasional kind

   of  activity, perhaps the batteries are your best bet . . .

   but they  are like houseplants . . . you gotta take care

   of  them."



 I would like to use it to check out the aircraft systems. 

  

 Primarily electronics, but also the flaps, lights and, maybe, even the  retractable landing gear.  My intent is to hook the batteries to the  airplane in lieu of the standard battery and power the whole thing with the  power supply set at twenty-eight volts.

  

 I hadn't considered leaving the power supply hooked up when not in use, but  it would be interesting to know what would happen. I suppose I could hook an  ammeter inline to see if there is any back flow.

  

 I really have no idea what the intermittent loads will be, but steady state  would rarely exceed fifteen amps. More often five to ten

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503

   

  In a message dated 12/16/2007 10:03:36 P.M. Central Standard Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

   Using batteries to augment bench supplies is not an    unreasonable

   thing to consider. We used to do it in the    two-way radio

   business all the time. Most radios ran nicely in    the receive

   mode from a modest power supply but took 20+ Amps    for

   some of the big honkers. We would float a battery    across

   the power supply for temporary support of very    intermittent

   loads.



   

      How much current do you need at 28V . . . or would 24.0

   do the    job?



   Bob . .  .



	






See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

Good Evening Bob,

  

 When using that address, I seem to be getting a 24 to 12 converter!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8503   

  In a message dated 12/16/2007 10:12:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Toss    this idea in the hat. Theres a power supply on

   ebay right now    at:



http://tinyurl.com/2mzrkk

	






See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

At 11:32 PM 12/16/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Good Evening Bob,



"Can your power supplies be cranked up to 14.2 or thereabouts?

    Also, you need to check and see how much (if any) current

    flows back into the power supplies when they are powered-down

    and still connected to batteries."



Darned if I know!



The primary one that I hope to use is a variable power supply that is 

supposed to be capable of supplying up to 40 volts and 25 amperes. It is a 

Hewlett-Packard 6438B which means absolutely nothing to me!


	


   Aha! These supplies have a crowbar ov protection

   system in them that triggers if you leave them

   connected across a battery and remove the incoming

   AC power.



 	  Quote: 	
		  "What kind of work are you wanting to accomplish with this

    supply? If it's a relatively low priority, occasional kind

    of activity, perhaps the batteries are your best bet . . .

    but they are like houseplants . . . you gotta take care

    of them."

I would like to use it to check out the aircraft systems.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  



Primarily electronics, but also the flaps, lights and, maybe, even the 

retractable landing gear.  My intent is to hook the batteries to the 

airplane in lieu of the standard battery and power the whole thing with 

the power supply set at twenty-eight volts.


	




 	  Quote: 	
		  

I hadn't considered leaving the power supply hooked up when not in use, 

but it would be interesting to know what would happen. I suppose I could 

hook an ammeter inline to see if there is any back flow.



I really have no idea what the intermittent loads will be, but steady 

state would rarely exceed fifteen amps. More often five to ten


	


   Okay, you need to build up a "shop power

   cart" consisting of two 12v batteries + the

   HP power supply. I had just such a critter

   for 1K1 while we owned it.



   I got a metal "projector cart" on wheels at

   Sam's Club. Office supply stores have them

   too. Or you can built it out of wood. I'll

   suggest that the 18 a.h. RG batteries that

   you mentioned would be MINIMUM. These will have

   tabs you can bolt up to. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Panasonic/17AH.gif



   You'll also want to put some form of ON/OFF

   control on the cart. If you know someone that

   runs a TC aircraft bone yard, you can probably

   get your hands on a 6041 series contactor out

   of one of larger singles. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Contactors/Eaton_CH/6041SeriesPowerRelays.pdf



   Needs to be a 28v, 200A or larger device. Alternatively,

   you can use an el-cheeso White-Rogers device. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Contactors/Stancor-WhiteRogers/Stancor_70-Series.pdf



   You'll need a 70-903 or 70-907. You can get

   these from Allied Electronics at:



http://tinyurl.com/2rnz43



   also a fat diode on a heatsink to isolate the

   power supply from the battery to avoid the

   "crowbar" nuisance trip I cited earlier. See:



http://www.vishay.com/docs/93162/93162ird.pdf



   Digikey has the IRD3911 in stock for about $9

   at:



http://tinyurl.com/yoqsn7



   Nice fat heatsinks for these diodes are getting

   hard to find. Drop me your address and I'll

   mail you one.



   You'll also need a hardware store toggle switch,

   an ANL200 current limiter (don't leave this out!)

   and a nice, bright red PWR ON light for the cart

   to show when the output leads are hot. It would

   also be nice to have a voltmeter. I can fix you

   up with one.



   In operation, the battery cannot be connected

   to the airplane unless the HP supply is plugged

   in and turned on. The diode prevents backfeed that

   WILL damage your power supply. By the way, if you

   want to use the full output capability of HP supply,

   you'll need to wire it for 240 volts and run a 240

   line cord to it. I have one of these on my bench

   and it will pop a 20A breaker when operating from

   120 VAC and I try to load it to full output.



   You'll find this cart quite handy. In fact, with

   some minor additions, you could make it a 14/28

   volt cart by connecting the batteries in parallel,

   changing the contactor to a 14v device and use

   a resistor in series for 28v operation. The indicator

   light is a little dim on 14v but if you've got

   a really obnoxious light for 28v service, it will

   be adequate at 14v.



   I had just such a cart and used it a lot. I

   had 12v car batteries instead of RG but otherwise

   it was the same setup. Of course it would crank

   an engine very smartly. My cart had "piper"

   style ground power plug on the end of the service

   output cord. I then fabricated some adapters

   to let me plug into a mil-std jack or attach

   directly to the b-lead of an alternator to emulate

   a running engine/alternator.



   This may seem like a lot of fuss . . . but you'll

   be glad you did it.



   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

ignore this and see earlier post . . .



At 11:38 PM 12/16/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Good Evening Bob,



When using that address, I seem to be getting a 24 to 12 converter!



Happy Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8503



In a message dated 12/16/2007 10:12:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, 

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:

Toss this idea in the hat. Theres a power supply on

    ebay right now at:



http://tinyurl.com/2mzrkk





----------

See AOL's 

<http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004>top rated 

recipes and 

<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003>easy 

  ways to stay in shape for winter.



  <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution

<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

incoming mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG.


	




        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

Good Evening Bob,

  

 Wow!!

  

 I had no idea it would take that much effort.

  

 I do have a contactor that may work. It is a 6041H189 from a V35B. 

  

 I'll start gathering the rest of the needed materials. Thanks for all the  information.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8503   

  In a message dated 12/16/2007 11:57:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Okay,    you need to build up a "shop power

   cart" consisting of two 12v    batteries + the

   HP power supply. I had just such a    critter

   for 1K1 while we owned it.



   I got a    metal "projector cart" on wheels at

   Sam's Club. Office supply    stores have them

   too. Or you can built it out of wood.    I'll

   suggest that the 18 a.h. RG batteries    that

   you mentioned would be MINIMUM. These will    have

   tabs you can bolt up to.  See:

	






See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

retasker(at)optonline.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Battery Question?

Not to knock down Bob's suggestion, but I am not sure that you actually 

need to go to quite that much trouble.  It really depends on what you 

want to do, how long you want your test batteries to last (both in the 

sense of supplying power and in the sense of lifetime until they are 

disposable).  What Bob is suggesting would be great if you were to go 

into the airplane avionics test and installation business.



You have to decide how sophisticated you want to get and how much 

versatility and protection you need.



I suspect that what you need is a couple of batteries and a battery 

charger.  Use the batteries to do your testing and then connect them to 

a charger overnight to be ready the next day.  Alternately, just use 

your 25A supply and forget the batteries.  If you do need more than 25A 

then you would need the batteries, but if not just keep it simple.  The 

HP supply is a good one and should do just fine up to it's maximum load.



My $0.02.



Do not archive.



Dick Tasker



BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Good Evening Bob,

  

 Wow!!

  

 I had no idea it would take that much effort.

  

 I do have a contactor that may work. It is a 6041H189 from a V35B.

  

 I'll start gathering the rest of the needed materials. Thanks for all 

 the information.

  

 Happy Skies,



 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8503

  

 In a message dated 12/16/2007 11:57:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, 

 nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:



     Okay, you need to build up a "shop power

        cart" consisting of two 12v batteries + the

        HP power supply. I had just such a critter

        for 1K1 while we owned it.



        I got a metal "projector cart" on wheels at

        Sam's Club. Office supply stores have them

        too. Or you can built it out of wood. I'll

        suggest that the 18 a.h. RG batteries that

        you mentioned would be MINIMUM. These will have

        tabs you can bolt up to. See:





 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 See AOL's top rated recipes 

 <http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004> and 

 easy ways to stay in shape 

 <http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003> 

 for winter.

 *

 *


	


-- 

Please Note: 

No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message.  We do concede, however,

that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.

--

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: Battery Question?

At 10:17 PM 12/17/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Good Evening Bob,



Wow!!



I had no idea it would take that much effort.



I do have a contactor that may work. It is a 6041H189 from a V35B.


	


   Shucks, that's usually the hard part

   to find.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

I'll start gathering the rest of the needed materials. Thanks for all the 

information.


	


   It doesn't HAVE to be that much. For

   the occasional ground power task, I've

   resorted many times to simple work-arounds.

   But if you want to use the HP supply

   in conjunction with batteries, you're

   well advised to accommodate the

   crowbar ov protection. I smoked one

   of my venerable HP supplies some years

   ago discovering this problem.



   But I think you'll find that when

   you have a robustly packaged, convenient

   tool it will get used much more

   often than you anticipate now. The

   mechanics at our little airport did

   a lot of ship's battery testing on customer

   aircraft where the bus voltage low

   (no alternator) and added wear and

   tear to the battery. After I built

   the cart, it got used several times

   a week.



   Bob . . .

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: Battery Question?

Thanks Bob, 

  

 I am gathering the material and will lean on you for wiring advice when all  is in hand.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8503   

  In a message dated 12/18/2007 7:56:31 A.M. Central Standard Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		       But I think you'll find that when

   you have a robustly    packaged, convenient

   tool it will get used much    more

   often than you anticipate now. The

      mechanics at our little airport did

   a lot of ship's battery    testing on customer

   aircraft where the bus voltage    low

   (no alternator) and added wear and

   tear to    the battery. After I built

   the cart, it got used several    times

   a  week.

	






See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

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